DanielB Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hello I've just taken the DCC plunge and bought myself an NCE Power Cab starter kit, but I am needing to of course get some decoders for my N scale loco fleet. Thankfully it isn't that big at the moment so I should be okay. Primarily I have a pair of Kato SD70MAC and a Kato AC4400CW that will need fitting. I know you can get replacement boards from TCS but those seem a might expensive at £30 each. Do you HAVE to use the replacement boards or will the locos fit a cheaper DCC decoder chip? Thanks, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2014 Digitrax also do replacement drop in boards -normally between 24 and 28 pounds from UK stockists although there does appear to be a bit of a shortage of Digitrax decoders at the moment. You could start cutting the original PCB to isolate the LED's and hard wire a cheaper harness decoder but then it may not have the room to fit into the body. If I were you I would stick with the replacement boards. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I would second Ian's recommendation - stick with the replacement board. I've cut traces on boards (and hacked the chassis to make room) where there is no other option (LL/Walthers GP38-2, ER Models Baldwin Shark, Kato GP38-2/GP50, one of my Athearn SD70Ms), but I'd much rather not have to. Your only board replacement choices for the Kato hood units are TCS or Digitrax. For Atlas locos, or Kato cowl units you can add NCE to the list. For the SD70MAC or AC4400CW you are looking at a TCS K1D4 (list $42.75) or a Digitrax DN163K1C (list $36.00). However, there is space on these chassis for a small wired decoder to sit below the board at the rear if you really want to go that route: http://www.spookshow.net/katosd70.html http://www.spookshow.net/kato44.html A useful feature if you are so inclined is that there are extra functions on the drop-in boards, so adding separately controllable ditch lights is possible. I've only tried this on a P42, using the instructions provided by Digitrax, but with SMD LEDs it should be possible on the newer hood units that already have light guides for the ditch lights. I use Digitrax decoders almost exclusively, most of the TCS decoders I have are CN-GPs for the older split light board locos. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2014 If you pick up older Kato locos that don't have the single linear board then TCS do a decoder in two halves that will fit a fair few of these older locos. I have a few of these and picked a decoder up off Coastal DCC a few weeks ago for my last old Kato SD45 that requires converting. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thanks guys, I've just ordered a pair of TCS K1D4 decoders from DCC supplies. Hopefully tomorrow night I can get playing around with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi DanielB, Welcome to the DCC world. Just an observation between Digitrax and TCS decoder drop in boards, the TCS versions are usually a little bit smaller. Maybe not a problem for the loco's you have, but I fitted a Digitrax DN163K2 to an SD90/43MAC and found that the body wouldn't go back on properly without a modification to the exhaust, where the TCS K2D4 went in without issue. Also, if you are thinking of fitting ditch lights etc. the TCS boards have resisters on-board for your LEDs and I don't think the Digitrax boards do (again it may not be a problem, but its a consideration). Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi DanielB, Welcome to the DCC world. Just an observation between Digitrax and TCS decoder drop in boards, the TCS versions are usually a little bit smaller. Maybe not a problem for the loco's you have, but I fitted a Digitrax DN163K2 to an SD90/43MAC and found that the body wouldn't go back on properly without a modification to the exhaust, where the TCS K2D4 went in without issue. Also, if you are thinking of fitting ditch lights etc. the TCS boards have resisters on-board for your LEDs and I don't think the Digitrax boards do (again it may not be a problem, but its a consideration). Cheers, Mark. Interesting. I didn't have an issue with the Digitrax decoders and my SD90/43MAC or my two SD80MACs. I'm not sure why yours would be different. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 No idea either Adrian, last thing I was expecting from Kato / Digitrax, but the body would definitely not sit back down correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have had this with some Kato locos. cant remember exactly which ones but think its the dash 9's. Fairly easy to rectify but you do have to be careful that you don't remove too much plastic under the exhaust otherwise the exhaust area will collapse as it is recessed into the roof. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 So I ordered a pair of K1D4 decoders which showed up today, but they aren't fitted with lighting LED's, whereas on the instructions on the TCS site it shows that they are. Are they supposed to have lights or is that something you have to add on yourself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 So I ordered a pair of K1D4 decoders which showed up today, but they aren't fitted with lighting LED's, whereas on the instructions on the TCS site it shows that they are. Are they supposed to have lights or is that something you have to add on yourself? Some more modern / upgraded decoders have tiny micro LED's mounted on the board rather than the more obvious LED's so put one in a loco and try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah, I called DCC Supplies and they pointed that one out to me. Clearly I'm a noob! Out of interest, it advises to use insulating 'kapton' tape on the chassis - is that what you guys would recommend? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 Definitely yes in the locations the instructions state. Its particularly important to wrap it around the chassis where the prongs go down the side to the motor. The prongs shouldn't come in contact with the chassis otherwise you will fry the board. TCS website clearly shows this more than the printed instructions (note the board in the photo is slightly older showing the larger LED's). http://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/N_Scale/Kato/SD70MAC/SD70MAC.html Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Thanks Roundhouse! I've just put in another order at DCC supplies for some Kapton tape and another K1D4 for my other SD70MAC. Wish I'd have checked into this before I ordered! D'oh! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 5, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2014 I haven't used the TCS direct replacement boards- do they not come with any tape? You can use insulation tape as long as it doesn't lift the board too much Digitrax ones do give you enough although tape its a pain to find the end to unwrap it off the decoder! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I haven't used the TCS direct replacement boards- do they not come with any tape? You can use insulation tape as long as it doesn't lift the board too much Digitrax ones do give you enough although tape its a pain to find the end to unwrap it off the decoder! Ian I have a roll of kapton tape, so I tend to just treat the piece you get with the Digitrax decoder as an annoying bit of packaging Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 No, no tape in the packaging unfortunately. Doesn't appear to be any attached to the decoders either. Well, best to have some to hand just in case, right? At almost £25 per decoder I'd rather not blow one up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 I'm having some excellent luck with these decoders. One showed up all bent then plain snapped in half when I straightened it, the other two aren't detected when I scan on the prog track on my powercab. So confused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Scratch that. It's working! It's working! :):) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Glad to hear that (some of) the fleet is working. One issue that can occur with this type of decoder is that the frame halves may not make great contact with the pads on the decoder. At least with the newer Digitrax decoders I sometimes have to put a dab of solder on each of the pads to get a better fit into the slot in the frame. That said, it doesn't tend to be the case with the Kato units that use this style decoder - which is about the simplest install there is. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Yeah, the two I fitted were fitted correctly, I just had the powercab connected up wrong. Even something as simple as that - I got wrong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Okay, now with my first three locomotives fitted, it's time to move on to the locos that I am assuming will need to be hard wired. I have the following which will need chips, can any suggest suitable examples I could look into? Kato GP-50 Kato U25B Atlas SD60 Life Like SD9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2014 The Atlas SD60 should take the Digitrax DN163A1 Have look on the Digitrax decoder selector http://www.digitrax.com/products/engine-matrix/decoder/ The Kato GP50 is an older loco and will probably require one of the TCS split boards. https://www.tcsdcc.com/public_html/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/N-Scale/ClassicN/CN-Series.htm The lifelike SD9 will probably require hard wiring with something like the Digitrax DZ125. I have three of these but not yet tried installing DCC. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thanks Roundhouse! Time to get snooping on DCCSupplies! (Other DCC suppliers are available. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Just spotted this online - thought it might be useful to share it here: http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/grela/lifesd7-sd9.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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