Light Railway - 1938 - Locos for Sale ?

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Guys

 

It's around 1938 and work is about to start on a light railway

 

The owner of this railway ( Miss Dalton ) doesn't want to commission any new locos right now and is looking for SH locos to buy ( or rent? )

 

What locos might have been available then to buy second hand, or was it possible to rent locos for extended periods of time? - if locos had been rented would they have been allowed to paint them in their own livery do you think ?

 

Imagine a railway around the size of the Kent & Sussex but PLEASE don't feel obliged to use only locos that were used on that line

 

The owner realises that one day their little railway will be famous and books written about it, and someone might want to make a model of it,  so is keen that any suggested locos should be available as RTR 00 1/76th scale locos on their 76th anniversary ( which coincidentally is this year , 2014 ) 

[PaulRhB]

Rtr isn't going to give you much choice yet though you could suppose a Terrier or Beattie Well tank being available, possibly a J72. With older tender locos a Deans Goods, Wainwright C or the forthcoming J15 are possibilities.

Also consider the ARC models and Deans Sidings bodies to fit commercial chassis if a rtr chassis would be enough.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76530-arc-models-new-range-of-4mm-scale-products/

 

http://www.lanechoice.com/rail/catalogs/DeanSidingsSpring2012.doc

[PhilJ W]

A petrol rail car?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...What locos might have been available then to buy second hand, or was it possible to rent locos for extended periods of time? - if locos had been rented would they have been allowed to paint them in their own livery do you think ...

Hire is definitely an option, though these usually stayed in the owning company livery. Typically the rental was from the connecting main line in those I know something about. The Easingwold often hired a NER design 0-6-0T such as the J72 already mentioned. The Midland was much given to hiring out its 0-6-0T, though more likely to industrial outfits; but the announced open cab MR 1F might well be suitable for outright sale as a loco from a largish class being steadily scrapped in the 1930s.

[PaulRhB]

A petrol rail car?

Not available rtr though Phil , and it's too early for the Heljan railbus.

The Ratio 4 wheel GWR coaches might be worth looking at as easy to build coach kits suitable in period and type for a light railway.

[EddieB]

If you want something unusual for your modern historian to write about, how about an 0-6-0T running with a supplementary tender?  Some ex-GER J67 locomotives worked over the Lauder Light Railway (Galashiels, Scotland) with tenders from North British 0-6-0s - reason being that the axle loading would be too heavy for the light track had their side tanks been filled.

 

http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3831

 

(As an aside WA Camwell's photos were bequeathed to the Stephenson Locomotive Society, whence copies may be purchased).

[davknigh]

A Terrier is almost obligatory for a light railway and Sentinel might just fit too. Examples of both can be found over a wide geographic area. Apart from that a small contractor's engine would do for light duties and a wide range are available in kit form.

 

HTH

 

David

[PatB]

The North Sunderland used LNER (and later BR) Y7s. Nothing RTR but a K's Y8 would not be out of keeping if you can find one. The NSR also briefly used an ex-L&Y Pug, which you can get. I'm assuming 4mm here.

 

Edit: Incidentally, I'm aware that the NSR was not, strictly, a light railway, but it can't be denied that it displayed many of the characteristics of one.

[The Lurker]

I'd echo the Terrier. If anyone ever makes the Adams Radial you'd be able to use that too. The KESR and EKR used O1 class 0-6-0s - they were referred to as 7/8ths C classes, so if you're prepared to stretch things a lot....not that the Southern was getting rid of the C class. But those give an idea of scope. Small old tank engines and elderly 0-6-0 tender engines

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks for the replies so far

 

re the Terrier - I was under the impression that the currently available OO Terriers are older models and not that good - am I wrong ?

 

Miss Dalton can be quite persuasive (that's all I am saying) so it's possible she might have access to some older locos (older purely on expense grounds )  that you might not expect normally to have been available for purchase

[davknigh]

The current crop do leave a bit to be desired but can be upgraded. Branchlines do a set of frames that are good for all three gauges of 4mm and make a great improvement. There is an article on upgrading a Terrier in Tim Shackelton's book "Plastic Bodied Locos" from Wild Swan.

 

HTH

 

David

[sir douglas]

the Nidd valley railway near Harrogate built for the construction of scar House reservoir, closed in 1937, some possible purchases there for miss Dalton to make, that is if the stock was still unused a year later

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidd_Valley_Light_Railway

 

http://www.skiptonrailsoc.org.uk/lofthouse.htm

 

one of the locos still survives and is now at the Embsay & Bolton railway

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/illing.html

 

it also had quite an unusual looking railcar as well.

 

Another is the Spurn Head railway in East Yorkshire, Although the dates in its history aren't right, there's some interesting stock

http://www.skeals.co.uk/Articles/Spurn%20Railway.html

 

Regards, Sam

 

(EDIT for clarity: the dates In the history of the spurn head railway are right but not right for the purchases of miss dalton as it closed in the 1950's) 

[br2975]

Miss Dalton should contact Messrs A.R.Adams, Pillbank Works, Coomassie St. Newport, Mon.

.

Not only are they engineers and boilersmiths, but they maintain a fleet of locomotives for sale or hire. 

.

Or, she could contact the Cymric Trading Co. Cardiff, they too deal in locomotives, some from the 'mainline' companies.

.

Or, it is 1938 and the GWR are replacing their older pannier tanks with the more modern 8750 class, and Swindon will have a number of surplus locos on their 'sales list'

.

Brian R

[davknigh]

Further reflection makes me think that a product from Manning-Wardle would not go amiss. http://www.rtmodels.co.uk/ does a couple of varieties. that might be useful. (usual disclaimer)

 

HTH

 

David

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks again for the replies

 

I spoke with Miss Dalton last night and she mentioned that she might know where to get hold of a Jinty - does that seem appropriate do you think

[PatB]

A little heavy for a light railway and, possibly, a little recent to be pensioned off in 1938 but not out of the question, perhaps, as a rental.

[EddieB]

One of the original Midland 0-6-0Ts, maybe just - they were around to 44 tons compared with the LMS "development" at nearly 50 tons.  Bear in mind that a light railway would impose restrictions on axle loadings - at around 41 tons the GER 0-6-0Ts I referred too earlier were too heavy for the Lauder railway with their tanks filled.  Compare that with just over 28 tons for a Terrier, 28.5 tons for a SECR P class or 38.5 tons for a NER J72.

 

Generally it's the maximum axle loading that would be determined by lighter rails than used on the mainline.  Although not always accurate, dividing the locomotive weight by the number of axles will give an approximate value.  The Regulation of Railways Act (1868) allowed light railways to be constructed with a maximum axle loading of just 8 tons (and maximum speed 25mph).  Obviously this restriction was relaxed in later practice, but I am unaware of there being any further definition in statute.  Perhaps a maximum axle loading of between 12 and 14 tons would be a good starting point for a fictitious line.

[corneliuslundie]

When did Boulton's Sidings close down? They were however more in the weird and wonderful category. And yes the GWR had a long sales list, with lots of pre-grouping locos from S wales some of which were off the peg designs.

[11B]

 

The owner realises that one day their little railway will be famous and books written about it, and someone might want to make a model of it,  so is keen that any suggested locos should be available as RTR 00 1/76th scale locos on their 76th anniversary ( which coincidentally is this year , 2014 ) 

 

It's a shame do they need to be 00? Or could you manage H0? If so

 

http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/2854-steam-locomotive-030-santurce.html

 

http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/2853-steam-locomotive-030-baracaldo.html

 

Both Sharp Stewart loco's, just like the Furness Railway passed on to the LNWR, whilst they didn't pass onto the LMS (not that I know of, but do stand to be corrected!!),but maybe in your story they could have? A few passed onto at least one local company, Barrow Steel works, granted that they were not these locos, but they were Ex Furness Sharp Stewart locos.

 

Ian

[ThePurplePrimer]

It definitely needs to be OO but I agree those look really nice Ian

[PhilJ W]

It definitely needs to be OO but I agree those look really nice Ian

Just fit a new cab/bunker and maybe change the boiler fittings?

[EddieB]

It's a shame do they need to be 00? Or could you manage H0? If so

 

http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/2854-steam-locomotive-030-santurce.html

 

http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/2853-steam-locomotive-030-baracaldo.html

 

Both Sharp Stewart loco's, just like the Furness Railway passed on to the LNWR, whilst they didn't pass onto the LMS (not that I know of, but do stand to be corrected!!),but maybe in your story they could have? A few passed onto at least one local company, Barrow Steel works, granted that they were not these locos, but they were Ex Furness Sharp Stewart locos.

 

Ian

While they are similar to "standard" Sharp Stewart designs supplied to the Furness (among others), the prototypes for these models are a batch supplied to FC de Triano in Spain, to Spanish gauge.

[Nick Holliday]

The book "Mainline to Industry" is a mine of information regarding the sales of locos, although it doesn't cover sales to minor railways, but it does give an idea of the type of loco being sold at various times.  The L&YR Pug certainly features a lot, over a number of years.  One thought that came from this study was the possibility of using the old Hornby NBR 0-6-0T later LNER J83.  Not that this type was sold out of service, but it has a fairly close similarity to the Hull & Barnsley and LCDR tanks of the same wheel arrangement.  All 6 of the H&BR locos, being non-standard, were quickly sold off by the LNER to industrial concerns in 1923, but most only lasted until the mid-thirties, when, presumably, better bargains were available, thanks to the modernisation of the loco stock on the LMS and GWR, with, for instance, lots of Welsh 0-6-2 tanks made surplus by the arrival of the 56xx and the slump in the coal trade.  The LCDR tanks found their way onto the market a little later, but they could have been offered to an impecunious Light Railway.  I might suggest that the differences between these locos and the J83 could be accounted for by in-house modifications carried out by their industrial owner, the loco needs a bit of work to make it look better anyway, and a new livery will no doubt be applied.

Another possibility is the L&YR radial tank.  One was actually sold to the Wirral Railway in 1921, so the precedent is there, and during the thirties a large number were scrapped, of almost every variation of boiler - Belpaire / round / saturated / superheated - so any variant could be justified, and many soldiered on into the fifties, so the scrapping may have been premature, as a result of the arrival of new Stanier tanks, and the locos perfectly serviceable for a lightly trafficked Light Railway.