Best Mk1 Model Coach

[Robin Brasher]

Ever since Hornby Dublo made their Mk1 coaches model railway firms have competed to make the best Mk1 coaches. Bachmann seem to be producing the best Mk1 coaches at the moment but do they run better or are they such good value for money as rival models? For instance a Lima Mk1 coach does not look as realistic as other models but it runs well and was cheaper when it was made and is cheaper on the second hand market.

[Fenman]

... a Lima Mk1 coach does not look as realistic as other models but ... is cheaper on the second hand market.

 

Sounds about right, then, since, presumably, if we're in the business of modelling we want our models to look like the real thing?

 

Or have I misunderstood, and by "best" you mean something else?

 

Paul

[Robin Brasher]

I think it depends upon what you want from a model. If a model is robust, is cheap, is painted in the correct shade, does not derail or brake away from other coaches or can easily be dismantled to add passengers or paint the interior people may prefer it to a more accurate model.

[Wheatley]

So as long as it's cheap, the right colour and doesn't fall off it need only bear a passing resemblance to a Mk1 ? Like the Lima one ?

 

The Bachmann one meets all those criteria (provided you remember that there are two screws hidden under the bogies) and looks far more realistic than the Lima one. I wouldn't even use the latter as a basis for Motorail flats.

['CHARD]

The bogies look HO to me too.  I did run some Italian restaurant cars when they were the only model available RTR of that particular prototype, but they needed so much work they were one reason I concentrated more on freight workings and TMD layouts in the eighties.  The one thing Lima MkIs were appropriate for was outdoor running, where they were free-rollers in correct-length trains and didn't look so bad from a distance, amid a rake of Airfix aircons.

 

Lima's BG was famously the wrong length, but at least their CCT, GUV and Siphon G had reasonable bodies, fairly subtly rendered.  

 

I'm running two of their LMS bogie CCTs today (only purchased last year off eBay), on correct Bachmann bogies, and these bodies are pretty decent raw material.  Lima were far from all bad, as Class 47 modellers frequently attest.

[Allegheny1600]

Bachmann every time!!!

I don't know the latest Hornby model but their older versions and the Lima 'things' were always terrible for me. Why? The tension lock couplers!

I always found these had to be cut off and replaced with something else.

Anything else. At all.

Whereas the Bachmann tension lock is quite bearable although personally I still replace it with a Kadee.

Cheers,

John E.

[miles73128]

Bachmann every time!!!

I don't know the latest Hornby model but their older versions and the Lima 'things' were always terrible for me. Why? The tension lock couplers!

I always found these had to be cut off and replaced with something else.

Anything else. At all.

Whereas the Bachmann tension lock is quite bearable although personally I still replace it with a Kadee.

Cheers,

John E.

Bachmann, just. The Hornby Railroad is excellent, with better bogies (MK1), gangways and buckeye coupling (faux). Even the plastic wheels aren't bad, though I've replaced with metal ones.The moulded detail is fine, though the Bachmann with seperate wire is just slightly better. I've actually found the Hornby to be (marginally) smother running. 

[DLPG]

Bachmann by far! No question to me. At the end of the day the Hornby are produced under the railroad range

[Nimbus]

I'm running two of their LMS bogie CCTs today (only purchased last year off eBay), on correct Bachmann bogies, and these bodies are pretty decent raw material.  Lima were far from all bad, as Class 47 modellers frequently attest.

 

I remember being impressed by its underframe trussing when it first came out, and the way they captured some non-obvious subtleties. I also remembered noting these same subtleties on an Arthur Whitehead dimensioned drawing in a mid-60s RM, in that series by the LMS Society, where a good scale drawing and accompanying model build was described. 

 

That drawing would have given Lima most of what they needed. Coincidentally, I believe Bob Essery was resident in Hemel Hempstead when that RM series was run, and Richard Kohnstam, the Lima distributors had their offices there too. I called in one day and was able to pick up 3 Class 20 bodies for my project pile.

 

The Nim.

[Market65]

For me it is also the Bachmann Mk1. The Lima examples I long ago had used that awful "soapy" plastic which was useless for either modifiying or adding parts to. I'm afraid they had to go when the Bachmann models arrived.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[sub39h]

I'm by no means an expert but "money no object" I would have to say that Bachmann's seems to be the best to my eye. The new Hornby RailRoad one is meant to be very good and at a tempting price, and for that reason some may understandably consider that one the best but me personally I'd always rather 2 Bachmann Mk1s than 3 Hornby RailRoad ones

[Combe Martin]

The corridor connections (gangway end plates) are too short on Bachmann's Mk1 (the top of them finishes too low down), whereas the new Hornby ones are 'spot on'  !

[Market65]

The corridor connections (gangway end plates) are too short on Bachmann's Mk1 (the top of them finishes too low down), whereas the new Hornby ones are 'spot on'  !

Hi there, Combe Martin. You're quite right about that. I've been wondering for some time whether Coopercraft might make their connecting gangways available as replacements for the ones as fitted on by Bachmann. I've just quoted Coopercraft, but maybe someone else such as Comet might have some more accurate ones as well. Bachmann Mk1's -  still lovely models overall though.

 

All the best,

 

Market65

[steveb860]

Bachmann Mk1's will soon cost 20% more, so the railroad ones will look even an even more attractive option.

[BernardTPM]

Lima's BG was famously the wrong length

As was the Tri-ang one, though oddly they stretched them in two different ways. Tri-ang stretched just the spaces between the doors while Lima stretched the doors as well. Oddly enough, this makes the Lima double doors the correct width for a Southern Region MLV (though that's a pointless conversion these days!)

[Dave47549]

.

[S.A.C Martin]

Have to say, I rather think the Hachette Mk1s are exceedingly good value for money. I have a number of these stored up for projects. If you're asking what the best Mk1 on the market is, and cost is no factor, then Bachmann's are the best simply by virtue of metal wheel sets and separately fitted components.

 

Hornby's Railroad Mk1s are a significant improvement on that which went before on a number of levels but I'm left cold by the standard fitting of plastic wheel sets.

 

Costs be damned: all rolling stock should have metal wheels as an absolute minimum (I can appreciate the fitting of expensive brass pivot bearings and similar would push costs up beyond that acceptable) and I find it amazing that any models are accepted these days with them. if it brings the prices up by a couple of quid on the Railroad stock, that's money people would spend for metal wheel sets.

 

Have I missed the point, or did Hornby? Whatever, I do like their Railroad Mk1s in principle and their Mk2s I am sure will follow a decent trend. 

[Horsetan]

For RTR Mk.1s, it's Bachmann or nowt.

 

For kit Mk.1s, there are so many options. In plastic, my vote goes to Coopercraft (but try and find one now; I've had real problems finding unbuilt ones as they are out of production), closely followed by Kitmaster (the glazing for which has never really been bettered).

 

In brass, Comet are pretty bloody good.

[31A]

Hi there, Combe Martin. You're quite right about that. I've been wondering for some time whether Coopercraft might make their connecting gangways available as replacements for the ones as fitted on by Bachmann. I've just quoted Coopercraft, but maybe someone else such as Comet might have some more accurate ones as well. Bachmann Mk1's -  still lovely models overall though.

 

All the best,

 

Market65

MJT gangways are quite easy to fit and the bellows being folded paper, they close the gap nicely between coupled vehicles.  Although I've not noticed much difference in the actual shape....

[sub39h]

Bachmann Mk1's will soon cost 20% more, so the railroad ones will look even an even more attractive option.

This is quickly forgotten once you replace the Hornby wheels with metal ones, making it a fairer comparison. The cheapest I've ever seen Hornby's wheels for sale is £5 for a pack of 10 - at 50p an axle it would increase te cost of Hornby's Mk1 by £2 which is a significant percentage of its base price. Of course the Hornby model is still cheaper but the wheels alone would count for more than a 10% increase and who knows what price Hornby will choose to charge next year. 

[andyman7]

In terms of range, then it's Bachmann hands down. However, for groundbreaking goalpost-moving by an individual release, then it's the previously unmentioned Mainline RB®. Nothing remotely close to it at the time & it took Bachmanns range around 15 years later to eclipse it.

Absolutely. It was weird back in '81 having such a perfect model and nothing that came close to it to run with it though!

[Fenman]

... Of course the Hornby model is still cheaper but the wheels alone would count for more than a 10% increase and who knows what price Hornby will choose to charge next year.

That's a strange thing to write - after all, who knows what Bachmann will choose to charge next year?

 

All we can do is compare like with like: and we now know (some of) both Hornby and Bachmann 2014 prices.

 

Why would anyone want to "prove" which manufacturer offers best value-for-money by comparing Bachmann's current price with what Hornby may or may not be charging sometime in 2015? Or am I missing something (very possible: I've not had enough coffee this morning)?

 

Paul

[Xerces Fobe2]

The Replica MK1's in Inter-City charter livery always a favorite or mine; I have a rake of them and after re -wheeling and detailing the bogies they look superb and run well.

 

XF

[sub39h]

That's a strange thing to write - after all, who knows what Bachmann will choose to charge next year?

 

All we can do is compare like with like: and we now know (some of) both Hornby and Bachmann 2014 prices.

 

Why would anyone want to "prove" which manufacturer offers best value-for-money by comparing Bachmann's current price with what Hornby may or may not be charging sometime in 2015? Or am I missing something (very possible: I've not had enough coffee this morning)?

 

Paul

 

Well Bachmann hasn't announced it's 2014/2015 range yet, but has already announced the price of its Mark 1 at RRP £32.95. By the time it hits the market in 2015 Hornby's 2015/2016 range will also have been announced. From what I can see of the models I am interested in (which may not be a representative sample I grant you) Hornby's prices have risen by around 30% this year. The same market powers that influence Bachmann influence Hornby. So if Bachmann have announced that they expect increasing costs for the foreseeable future it is not unfair to deduce that Hornby will as well. Of course, Hornby are also in a financial mess and when referring to the Mk1 specifically they have to recoup the cost of a new tooling which Bachmann most likely have already recovered given the length of time and variety of variants that have been offered for sale already. 

 

So if we take Hornby's 2014 RRP for their RailRoad Mk1 at £19.99, and add on the cost of 4 metal wheelsets at RRP £6.60 for 10, we get a base price of £22.63 - likely to rise by 30% for the 2015/2016 catalogue when Bachmann get their 2014/2015 product to market. This would see the price of the Hornby RR offering jump to £29.42 vs. Bachmann's announced RRP of £32.95. 

 

All of the above does make some assumptions - fair ones in my opinion - but assumptions none the less. Who knows if Hornby will even be around to announce a 2015/2016 range? I am also quite cynical and feel that Hornby is trying to see how much it can get away with charging. This may have permeated into my statement a little, Hence "... who knows what Hornby will choose to charge next year." Perhaps a fairer statement would have been, "Who knows what Hornby will charge next year." But overall I don't feel I have made an unfair comparison. You are of course free to disagree. The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same way!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The thing that lets the Bachmann Mk1 down are those awful roof ribs. To some it appears to be the "elephant in the room" that they don't want to mention.

I thought the Mainline Mk1s weren't too bad; if I recall they were the first to make a rtr model of the ubiquitous SK. Not very free runners though, compared to the Airfix M2 air cons of the same period.