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Airbrush 101 needed - Chimps' Tea Party in progress.


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Apologies all, for a series of ultra-dumb questions, but there really is a tea party atmosphere here!

 

Got my birthday pressie today - this airbrush and compressor

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004Y4J252/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

All good, except the airbrush comes without instructions. And the instructions for the compressor are written in Martian. After a good deal of chimping and looking at Youtube (not a brilliant experience, to be honest) I've managed to get a wet finger with the cup filled with water. The compressor was losing pressure quickly, but a bit of fiddling and it seems better, maintaing at about 30psi. Is that enough?

 

Paint. I've got some Humbrol acrylics, and the first thing I want to try is weathering, which looks well within the capabilities of the kit. Some acrylic thinners are on their way - do I need to wait for them, or can I thin the paint with water? More importantly, can I clean the airbrush with water?

 

To clean the brush do I just irrigate it and blow water/thinners through until it is clear, or do I need to strip it down for a bit of a soak? My last airbrush (a Humbrol cheapie) died because I didn't clean it...

 

Will a cleaning station pay for itself?

 

Am I deluding myself with false hopes of competence?

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Your compressor is fine, many of us on here have them. Some have storage tanks, which even out any fluctuations in pressure from the pump, but yours will be okay for light use.

 

Maintaining air pressure; make sure that all joints and unions in the lines are tight, you'll readily loose pressure otherwise.

 

Pressure is regulated by the knob above the water trap. It needs to be lifted, then turned and allowed to drop back onto its locking ring. Clockwise raises the pressure IIRC.

 

I'm not over keen on the use of acrylics through airbrushes, they dry too quickly for my liking. It's a personal preference and others will be along to guide you on the best thinners for them.

 

During use, a quick blow through with thinners every so often keeps things nice and clear, but at the end of the session I always strip it down and clean with appropriate thinners.

 

What do you mean by a cleaning station? I do have a thing called a 'jellyfish', just a globe with ports in the top which take the airbrush nozzle and then it traps the thinners I blow through it in the globe. Quite a useful bit of kit.

 

Delusions of competence? Practice, and the delusions will become skill.

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Thanks for that, Arthur. Very helpful.

Humbrol do say that their acrylics can be cleaned with water, presumably quickly and often.

The cleaning station is a pot to discharge excess paint/cleaning medium without mucking up the breathable. Given that I use aerosols in my shed all the time, I guess I'm being unnecessarily cautious...

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Apologies all, for a series of ultra-dumb questions, but there really is a tea party atmosphere here!

 

Got my birthday pressie today - this airbrush and compressor

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004Y4J252/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

All good, except the airbrush comes without instructions. And the instructions for the compressor are written in Martian. After a good deal of chimping and looking at Youtube (not a brilliant experience, to be honest) I've managed to get a wet finger with the cup filled with water. The compressor was losing pressure quickly, but a bit of fiddling and it seems better, maintaing at about 30psi. Is that enough?

 

Paint. I've got some Humbrol acrylics, and the first thing I want to try is weathering, which looks well within the capabilities of the kit. Some acrylic thinners are on their way - do I need to wait for them, or can I thin the paint with water? More importantly, can I clean the airbrush with water?

 

To clean the brush do I just irrigate it and blow water/thinners through until it is clear, or do I need to strip it down for a bit of a soak? My last airbrush (a Humbrol cheapie) died because I didn't clean it...

 

Will a cleaning station pay for itself?

 

Am I deluding myself with false hopes of competence?

Welcome to the world of spraying!

 

If you have any spare birthday money left over you could consider buying the Tim Shackleton DVD on Weathering using an airbrush or his book Aspects of Modelling Weathering Locomotives, or Airbrushing for Railway Modellers by George Dent both are very useful in my opinion.

I would tend to agree with Arthur of this parish and his advice , always always keep the airbrush clean especially with acrylic paint. Yes it may seem long winded sometime but it will pay dividends with the final finish on your models. If you don't have an extractor please consider very carefully where you intend to spray and seriously consider using a proper mask such as those produced by 3M ( others are available) but as a last resort at least use the disposable ones ( not recommended for full protection though).

Overall, practise and enjoy, as for the so called "Who-Tube" experts hmmm I'd reserve judgment myself.

Good luck and happy modelling.

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One more thing,

 

If you are using the pot to disperse and clean the airbrush make sure the lid is on firmly and clean it out on a regular basis too.

There can be a build up in it if using enamel paints and you may notice small discharges coming out of the small filter area, not nice stuff to inhale! Please don't think I'm being over cautious but it is extremely important NOT to Inhale any of this when airbrushing.

If the shed is warm enough and well ventilated and with a good airmask you will be taking all the right precautions.

 

Also consider using distilled water not tap water as an alternative when using acrylic paint better still use the recommended thinners for each type of paint you intend to use.

 

Don't be afraid to ask if you're unsure !

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Some excellent points. I've been using small amounts of acrylic with the door open, but I've got some serious woodworking masks.

I hadn't realised I needed to keep the lid on when cleaning. That explains a lot...

So far I've completely messed up reassembly, lost the nozzle (found it again) and mysteriously formed a very slight hook on the tip of the needle... How much difference will it make?

The biggest pain is getting the little pressed metal piece that the trigger bears against back in place. Nightmare for a man with arthritic thumbs.

Now I can dissemble/reassemble with some confidence I think I've got cleaning sorted. So now it's just the actual painting.

 

When I start using the brush it is at the pressure in the compressor - about 50psi. It then drops to 30. Presumably I whack off the extra pressure before I paint and go for 30? It seems to be working - here is a wagon which arrived whilst I was experimenting - a cheapie from ebay bought for this purpose. I can see plenty wrong with the finish I've managed here - what advice do I need to do better?

 

IMG_0210_zpsc7df40ba.jpg

IMG_0211_zps40bf420b.jpg

 

Thanks for all your forbearance. And help.

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You need the needle to be perfectly straight. With very great care it is possible to pass the end with fine strokes over an extremely fine wet and dry paper. It really does need to be straight and have a sharp point! Can't emphasis that enough!!

You should ideally spray at a much lower pressure too, say about 15/20 psi, just play with the gauge until you get a good airflow, there isn't a need to have too high a pressure for detailing work. Several light passes are better to achieve the end result. Maybe try on a piece of scrap card and see how you get on before committing to a model.

Leave the compressor running all the time whilst spraying. Good first effort for a first time and don't forget, if it is weathering you can't really go wrong ? after all it is dirt !!!!

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Good advice on the pressure - makes a great difference. I'm used to compressors that drive nail guns...

The hook on the needle doesn't seem to be affecting things over much, but I understand that they are easily available as quite cheap spares (presumably there's a lot of chimps out there) - problem is I'm not sure what the make of brush is, or even what size the needle is, the instructions say, helpfully, that it's 0.2mm or possibly 0.3mm. Really simian question - can I put either in? Nozzles seem to be available as well.

 

If this all works I'm planning on getting a better brush anyway.

 

Here's the latest WIP.

DSC_0004_zpsf5e2bcc3.jpg

 

Pugh has had another coat to cover the areas missed or patchy last time. I found the brush much more controllable at the lower pressure. Also I'm getting the hang of the dual action. What I need to do now is stop using it like an aerosol (wave it in the general direction of the object to be painted) and more like a painty scalpel.

 

Charringtons has just had a light blow over - really the sort of thing I want in weathering. The paint was diluted 50-50 with water. As I don't have any small bottles I did it in the cup. Don't judge me. Or at least, not too harshly.

 

Next job will be to paint some Hornby 4 wheel coaches into Southern green. They're undercoated, just waiting on the paint. Wish me luck.

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I don't know what make your airbrush is but it might be worth getting a couple of needles as spares and either sanding the end carefully as I said before ( you could damage the internal parts if it is left with the hooked end) or replacing it as soon as.

If you don't it may well start to splatter the paint rather than give a nice even flow and you could be disappointed with the results.

 

It is very much like a "scalpel" as you call it and with trial you can get in very close to detailing your models with practice.

 

There are a great many better models out there and you may well get the bug as many others have, but keep practising with what you have, it'll be of great benefit in the long term I'm sure.

 

Make sure the paint is well stirred as it could get thicker towards the bottom and you may well end up with nothing coming out, and remember to wash it through as often as possible ( it might seem a pain but well worth the effort).

 

Just enjoy and gain your confidence with each model you paint/weather it does make a big difference.

 

Happy days!

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Mmmm yippy my favourite subject - painting!

 

Some really good advice already on this thread and your other thread, and as usual some duff advice unfortunately.

 

The best advice above - check out the Tim Shackleton DVDs on weathering. I've been a professional painter for 15 years and I found his DVDs brilliant. Really simple advice, great tips, and some great ideas and methods.

 

Acrylic paints - if you can work with them, great. Many people can't, they are temperamental to say the least!

 

Without wishing to blow my own trumpet, please search some of the threads I've posted on for airbrush and paint advice. I've offered plenty of it on here, covering many parts of the subject, and the amount probably covers a full page which is why I don't really want to re-type it all here. I will however offer some brief tips....

 

Firstly, sorry if I teach you to suck eggs here, but starting at the start is the best way.

 

Your airbrush is a dual action model, a cheap copy of the early Iwata models and pretty good for what it is, I've got 2 of them and love them. Dual action - you press the trigger down for air flow, and pull it back for paint flow. The more you move the trigger, the more you get. This is probably the feature you want to get most acquainted with, as when you master it your quality will jump enormously.

 

Air pressure - no more than 25psi is needed. 18-20psi is ideal as this will atomise the paint correctly but not blow the paint all over the surface. Get used to thinning your paint to suit the air pressure, not the other way round. Good painting requires consistency, same air pressure, same ambient air temperature, same thinning ratio. If you find 20psi isn't enough to give you a smooth finish, change the paint consistency.

 

Acrylic Vs Enamel. It's a personal thing. I've tried both, in the big world and on models. 'Acrylic' (and it's variants) are fine for big world jobs, and improving all the time. I don't think the same development and quality has quite made it down to model world acrylics yet, and as somebody mentioned above they are very prone to drying too soon and being difficult to spray. Enamel on the other hand is easy to work with, it's thinned with white spirit and available in every colour under the sun. But it stinks, it's bad for your health, and the overspray is much more of a problem! Personally I use enamels, much to the annoyance of the mrs.

 

Thinning. Acrylics are mostly water based (although someone on here has recently corrected me on this issue!) and can be thinned with water. Beware though, tap water contains all kinds of metals and chemicals which will damage your airbrush and seals over time. De-ionised water is the stuff to use for both thinning and cleaning, the cheap stuff is fine. I get mine from The Range - £2.99 for a 5L bottle which lasts me around 12 months. You may also need a 'retarder' for acrylic paints, this stops the paint drying as soon as it leaves the nozzle of the airbrush and clogging it up.

Enamels are best thinned using white spirit. Don't waste your money on brand-specific thinners, they are just white spirit (the same goes for acrylic thinners, even branded versions are just de-ionised water with a smelly chemical added!).

 

Thinning ratio. Always add thinners to paint, not the other way round. There are no rules here, everybody does it different, and it's a personal thing. Some people prefer thicker paint, some prefer runny paint. You mix your paint to match your spraying style and the air pressure you're comfortable spraying at. Start with the consistency of milk, and spray about 3" away from the surface you want to cover. If your paint is running down the surface, it's probably too thin so make your next mix thicker. If the paint is rough or 'orange peel' or building up on the nozzle and spitting, the mix is probably too thick so needs a touch more thinners.

 

At this point I urge you to have fun! Mix some paint like water and try spraying it. Then mix some like gloop and try spraying that. Get used to how the paint and airbrush react together. Spray with the airbrush 1" from the surface using the trigger to limit the air and paint flow, then pull the airbrush away as you press the trigger fully down and back to give maximum air and paint flow. This is where the real learning takes place, with the airbrush in your hand. I use old cardboard boxes for this, they are big and flat so you can see how everything is spraying, and they aren't a model that you care about so you can really make a mess and get to know your airbrush and not care about making a mess!!

 

Keep your airbrush clean, replace the seals regularly, replace your bent needle ASAP as it will wear the nozzle to the shape of the bent needle and paint will start leaking, and above all don't be scared of just trying. Have fun with it!

 

Any further advice will be pretty useless at this stage, and will probably create more questions than help.

 

Mark

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Thanks for that - very useful. I'll persist with acrylics a bit longer. Just looks like cleaning will be easier, I won't need a snorkel and the thinners are cheap. And I loathe the smell of white spirit.

 

The needle - I think I did it in when I put the whole works, disassembled, into a bowl to clean them. Lesson learned.

 

How do I tell if it's 0.2 or 0.3? Does it make a difference to the brush which size I use? Or is it just a different size of cone of paint produced from the same diameter of nozzle?

 

Does anyone know if spares are available for these brushes, or even what they are? Or will a generic needle and nozzle work?

 

This: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003EJYY38/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1CAJN7I38K36C&coliid=I155XQ6HK2F2F

seems to get good reviews on Amazon, or perhaps a cheap Neo

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007AUJJ28/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1CAJN7I38K36C&coliid=I3NRFEHYVRFV0K

My old age pension starts next week...

 

Trouble is, like in my woodworking, I'm a bit of a tool fairy. If it's something you need, you need 3 of it.

 

It seems that nail shops, tanning booths and cake decorators are to thank for the plethora of brushes and compressors on the market at such good prices. Which is nice for us.

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Airbrushing -  as  people have said it largely a case of practice, practice and more practice. And everyone has their own little tricks and style. As you do more yours will develop and you'll undoubtedly have your fair share of foul ups on the way.

Was interested that someone said always add thinners to paint. I've always done it the other way round  and never had a problem so you pays your money ......

re Acrylics, try some Tamiya matt paints with their own thinners. Most proprietry acrylic thinners have a retarder chemical in them which means they have less tendency to dry out in the airbrush. You can buy it separately from art shops to mix with water but initially try a branded thinner.

The one big thing is - don't give up when it goes wrong, as it will.

 

Stu

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Guest blue_thunder

I posted this on the other thread too but - Trail and error. My 1st attempts at airbrushing (loco resprays) had the dreaded orange peel, this is do with paint to thick and/or too much pressure. Now they are as good as factory finish. Ive only sprayed acrylics once (Humbrol)and water was fine. I wouldnt worry too much about gunging it up, you will need to learn how yo take the airbrush apart for proper cleaning anyway. Have fun, and best initial advice I can give - take everything you know about spraying aerosols...and chuck it out da window, its the polar opposite lol. On a subnote humbrols enamel washes spray ok, as do model mates (except the rust effect, wouldnt do the limescale either its gritty though why would you want to spray that anyway). Both good to apply weathering.

 

I would agree that setting it at 50 and letting drop to 30 is too high. All compressors do this that don't have tanks (mine doesn't). I agree with generally spraying at 20-15. Your first attempts are ok, possibly a bit much but expect that's to do with the pressure being too high.I can also detect a bit of spatter, again too much pressure and possibly paint a bit thick, but to be honest its dirt and that does spatter I have mixed paint to thick deliberately before for that effect.

 

A general clean is ok for swapping colours in a session, blast it with thinners for enamel or water for acrylics (even better is IPA alcohol) put you figure over the end of the brush and apply pressure and it will force it back and clean better. It will need a deep clean every now and then, canned airbrush cleaner is used for this and in fact had you soaked your old clogged one in this you probably could have saved it. As I said you do need to learn how to take it apart but take great care with the needle and the inner nozzle (the thing where the needle actually protrudes from) any damage to these will kill it. Once apart soak in cleaner for a bit and scrub away with an old toothbrush, I used a little inter dental brush to get into the nooks.The only thing fine enough though to clean the tip is needle, so I CAREFULLY poke the needle back and forth into the tip after its been soaked, you can see the crud being forced out of the end.

 

Last point...when spraying there is nothing more annoying than a blockage, and given that the tip has such a teeny hole this is easy to get. When transferring the thinned paint to the colour cup (with a pippette) I place a very fine pipe screen in the cup (thay can be curved in) to act as a sieve. You can get these from any shop that's sells smoking stuff and erm...well...bongs.

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  • 2 months later...

Another noob question session, I'm afraid.

 

I've decided to take the plunge and use Phoenix enamels to repaint a loco. Is it absolutely essential to have Phoenix thinners, or could I use some Humbrol I've already got? Also some Vallejo airbrush cleaner, which I assume is for acrylics, but I'm not sure.

 

I'm also making the assumption that at 32º my shed (where I spray) is just too hot at the moment. Some spraying I did a few days ago at about 28º came out slightly rough, as though some droplets were hardening before they hit the surface.

 

Enjoying it, though, especially now I've realised that for a quick clean I don't have to reduce the brush to its component parts. On my 3rd needle, though. One developed a hook (my fault) and the second one seemed to have a bend in the sharp end.

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Thinners are thinners, regardless what name is on the tin. They are all essentially white spirit and all exactly the same. Once you pull the trigger on the airbrush the thinners start to evaporate, and when the paint is dry there are no thinners left, so don't worry about which brand you use at all.

 

If you find the temperature a bit high where you're spraying, you can 'over-thin' the paint slightly. Reducing its viscosity slightly allows the paint to get onto the model in a wet state, rather than semi-dry which will cause the rough finish. Doing this will mean you have to put extra coats on to get the right paint thickness and colour, but it all balances out.

 

When you replaced the needles, did you replace the nozzles at the same time? This is always recommended as the needle and nozzle profile themselves to each others shape, creating a perfect seal and better operation. If you put a bent needle into a nozzle, the shape of the needle will start to alter the shape of the nozzle through use. If you then put a new straight needle into the deformed nozzle it won't sit or seal properly resulting in spattering or paint leaking.

 

Mark

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Thanks, Mark. I'll use whatever I've got - I'm pretty sure Julie's got about a gallon of white spirit somewhere - I can smell it - and I loathe the smell!

 

No, I didn't replace the nozzle, but what you say makes perfect sense. I've got some new needles and nozzles on order, when they eventually arrive from Hong Kong, or Mars or wherever they're coming from I'll change both.

 

I'll try the more-thinned paint trick. I was getting a bit of blocking of the nozzle (one of the reasons I changed the needle) and I wasn't sure if it was paint that was drying, gunge or insufficiently thinned paint. I thinned the paint out a bit more (this was acrylic) and it got a bit better, but it was a bit of a mission painting a Light Pacific.

 

Helpful place, this. Much appreciated.

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When thinning acrylic it's always worth adding a retarder as well, acrylics dry very quickly when sprayed and a dry nozzle is common. It's the main reason I stick to enamels, despite the smell I find them easier to spray and much more forgiving.

 

Mark

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I'm hoping for that. I think I may be ready to go over to enamels - I'm just aware that cleaning the brush after using acrylics is so much easier.

 

Julie (Mrs Smiffy) has just spent £50 at Halfords so that I can can-spray two sets of elaborate shelves for her craft stall (she's setting up in a new shop in Wimbledon). I did some in the shed (with mask) but by crikey it was unpleasant. I remembered the old trick of drinking a pint of milk after - probably useless for the lungs but gets it out of the throat a bit. With any luck it won't be windy today and I can do it out of doors.

 

Which leads me to the question - Halford's do two types of grey primer, plastic and plain. Is the plain OK for use on plastics? I find the plastic primer can sometimes leave a very slightly rough surface.

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Cleaning the airbrush is exactly the same for acrylics and enamels, all that changes is the cleaning agent (water or white spirit). Slightly dried acrylics are a nightmare to remove, I always ended up using white spirit and an aerosol airbrush cleaner whatever the paint.

 

Best of luck to Julie in her new venture, I hope the UK 'officially' being out of recession will mean success.

 

As for primers, this is a bit tricky. Paint can be changed and used over any primer, but the primer MUST be the right type for the substrate as it's what creates the bond between surface and paint. Acid etch primers will not etch to plastic, and vice versa, but I'm unfamiliar with the Hellfrauds range. When spraying car plastics I've always used a Bonding Aid before using a plastic primer, but I last worked on cars around 5 years ago so things may have advanced somewhat. If Halfords give the 2 options, I would definitely go for the plastic primer over a 'normal' primer as this should contain a bonding aid.

 

Also as you are working on 'virgin' plastic have you given any thought to the prep and cleaning? At the very least you need to be rubbing over the whole shelf with a red scotchbrite pad soaked in degreaser or white spirit, then dried with clean kitchen roll. Ideally rub over the whole shelf with some 600 grit sand paper, then use a clean rag soaked in degreaser or white spirit to clean the plastic prior to spraying. The small scratches caused by the scotchbrite or sandpaper give the primer something to bite onto, giving a much better key and bond; and the degreaser removes any oils or release agents on the plastic which would prevent a good bond.

 

Also once the primer is fully dry, either give it a gentle rub with some 800 grit sandpaper or a gentle red scotchbrite so the primer is keyed ready to accept paint. Don't clean it using solvents at this point, as they will eat into the primer and cause problems. Instead wipe over with a clean cloth to remove dust.

 

99% of good painting is in the prep work before you ever even open a tin of primer.

 

Apologies if you knew all of the above already, but I figured its best to put the info out there just in case. And on that note, it's my bedtime. Hope the spraying goes well, any problems post them up and I'll reply around 4pm.

 

Mark

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Thanks for the good wishes for Julie - she's been crafting for many years and has had a weekend stall, and been to some big craft fairs, but in the last few years has been involved in a co-operative with a shop, and now she is looking at renting space in other similar places.Not a new venture, but I'm hoping to see more of her at weekends!

 

The prep is a bit tricky, because I'm working on GBL shells and they've got a fair amount of detail added which it's difficult to remove/reattach - though I think I may have to do that to be able to paint and letter buffer beams. Just a rinse to get mould release off at the moment. Halford's plastic primer (the base coat of my 54mm 'grey army' is pretty tenacious stuff.

 

I've got an old Cooper Craft kit waiting for some paint, I may give that a go later. Thing with cattle wagons is they are covered in it already, before I start spraying it on!

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Apologies, it appears I may have mis-read your question this morning due to tiredness and writing a report of preparation standards for work. I really should concentrate on one thing at a time, not typing on the laptop and reading this forum on my iPad!!

 

While all of the above is correct for large-scale painting, it is completely impractical for us modellers. The preparation we can do is ensure the surface is clean before we paint it, so just a quick wash to remove fingerprint grease is all we need, no need for scotchbrite and degreaser on our models.

 

Apologies again if it was misleading, I promise to engage my brain in the future!

 

Mark

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Smiffy....just read through this whole topic...seems like you are enjoying playing and experimenting with your airbrush. I'd like to add a few points, if I may. I've had quite a bit of experience using enamels and acrylics in various airbrushes.BTW...i'm no expert by any means.

 

I started airbrushing with Humbrol enamels, even before acrylics existed.....I always thoroughly mixed the enamels and then strained them through a a piece cut from ladies tights....when required I'd thin with turps and use turps to clean the brush after each session.

Then I tried spraying acrylics....had all the usual problems that you ran into....too high pressure so dropped it to about 12-15 psi,....paint drying too quickly and or blocking the brush. Wasn't very happy. Then I found three things that made the acrylic experience much better and enjoyable.

1) Testors Dullcote....comes in a spraycan.....dulls the shiny factory paint down and gives it some tooth for the acrylics to grip onto.

2) Vallejo Model Air Paint....wonderful paint...formulated to be sprayed directly from the bottle without thinning....great stuff.

3) Windex....its ammonia laced window-cleaner...its the ammonia thats important.....its great for cleaning acrylics out of the airbrush...also not bad for thinning some acrylics. i'm sure there is something similar in the UK.

 

A few other things....unless you are spraying a large area try to avoid using jars on the airbrush..use the small cups...far less wasteful of paint.

 

Keep a piece of scrap card handy to spray onto to test and adjust your paintthinning and spray-width and spray quality.

 

Small eyedroppers from the chemists...great for putting exact amounts of paint into the airbrush cup. Also great for adding some windex/ammonia or other thinner or retarder to the cup to between refills to stop paint from drying in the brush.

 

Keep a small dish of the ammonia/windex nearby along with cottonbuds....the buds soaked in the ammonia/windex gently pushed against the nozzle will clean paint accumalation off of the needle point and nozzle during spraying.

 

Old-fashioned pipe-cleaners are pretty handy for cleaning the larger orifices and tubes in the airbrush.

 

Go on Amazon and/ or other websites and check out a Badger 200 or Badger 105 Patriot.....although the 105 Patriot being a double action brush might be harder to use if you have slightly arthritic fingers.

 

Most importantly have just fun.

 

Cheers

Gene

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