sub39h Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Hi guys, I need some Mk1s in variants that haven't been released by Bachmann - specifically 2x crimson/cream FOs 1x crimson/cream BSO 2x maroon BSOs 2x InterCity BSOs 1x NSE BSO The crimson/cream and maroon carriages are for my ECML preservation fleet. I don't know if these types of coaches existed/exist but Rule 1 applies. My questions are as follows: 1. How do Comet sides compare to Bachmann ones? I know Comet themselves suggest using Bachmann coaches for conversions but do they "match" if used in the same rake? 2. What other modifications would I need to make to an FK to make an FO? Is there a better coach to use in terms of roof and underframe detail? 3. What other modifications would I need to make to a BSK to make a BSO? Is there a better coach to use in terms of roof and underframe detail? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Mk1 BSOs were never in NSE or IC livery. In terms of a FO any open stock (TSO/RFO) would have a less obviously wrong roof detail than a FK. For a BSO a BCK would probably be a better fit than a BSK for the periscope etc but the ventilators would be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Tim of this parish will probably curse me for this but he has recently made a BSO from a BSK and one other coach - a BCK I think but don't quote me in case I have misremembered. Comet sides come as plain sheets of brass with holes in for the windows and etched lines for the doors. To make them look anything like Bachmann sides you will need to attach door handles, grab handles, door bangs and hinges. How well they match will depend on how well you do this. There are three different types of FO which does not make life much easier! I'm not aware that any Mk 1 BSO ended up in NSE livery - perhaps you are thinking of Mk 2? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Thanks for your replies guys - I didn't realise this was this much of a minefield! So were BSKs used in InterCity and NSE stock? Alongside SOs? And I do recall reading somewhere that one of the sides of the RFO is the same as othe FOs - but I don't know which side or whether this is the right FO for my purposes! I wonder whether it would be worth waiting and seeing if Bachmann release an FO and BSO. Given the popularity of their Mk1 coaches it seems strange that they have never been produced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Thanks for your replies guys - I didn't realise this was this much of a minefield! So were BSKs used in InterCity and NSE stock? Alongside SOs? And I do recall reading somewhere that one of the sides of the RFO is the same as othe FOs - but I don't know which side or whether this is the right FO for my purposes! I wonder whether it would be worth waiting and seeing if Bachmann release an FO and BSO. Given the popularity of their Mk1 coaches it seems strange that they have never been produced. Comet is the way to go just check out Coachman's stuff WOW! The F0 and RFO is a bit of a minefield! Early FOs and all RFOs had no centre door. Later ones did. I did a couple of dozen or more Mk1s using Mainline bodies and C]omet sides. They ran on STOKE SUMMIT I have not a pic to hand but here is one of some Stanier stock (Airfix/Comet) behind one of Tony Wright's V2s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 If you can get a copy of this it will help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 I'd love to see Coachmann's work but I can't seem to find it. He only has a handful of threads on his profile including a big one for a layout of which I'm on page 20 or so. Is it in there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I'd love to see Coachmann's work but I can't seem to find it. He only has a handful of threads on his profile including a big one for a layout of which I'm on page 20 or so. Is it in there? Sorry, I recently nuked my carraige threads and blogs. Someone posted this link, which seems to have revived a bit of one of my threads........Coincidentally it starts with fitting Comet Mk.I sides to Bachmann underframes and roofs... http://web.archive.o...nwr-mr-coaches/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Thanks again all - Coachmann your work is extremely good and not something I think I can hope to emulate. Also I think you mention that the intention is to use that coach in a rake of another coach type? For this purpose I think it looks spot on but in a rake of Bachmann Mk1s the larger window frames would probably stand out I think for one of the FOs I might try get hold of a crimson/cream RFO and take the restaurant branding off it and just rely on Rule 1. I'll have to wait and see if Bachmann release another FO type. What other modifications would I need to make to an RFO to make it vaguely like the FO with the same body shell? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 sub39h, Have you considered these three other options available using Southern Pride Models . 1) Brass sides as Comet 2) Complete Brass sided kits 3) Preprinted kits. I used old £1.50 S/H Mainline bodies and SP sides on these Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 In case any one is wondering, the coach on the left is one of the 1957 prototypes, built by Metro-Cammell, which is a good excuse if it does not quite match the Bachmann next to it! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 In case any one is wondering, the coach on the left is one of the 1957 prototypes, built by Metro-Cammell, which is a good excuse if it does not quite match the Bachmann next to it! Chris It's not a Bachmann. I built a RU,and Buffet before Bachmann. There's also a Kitchen Car, full Buffet, RTO. RFO and a RB. leaving me a Griddle to build from SP's sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 See Also Coaching stock for Camden - Modifying & Detailing RTR stock . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 DSC02374.JPG I really like that. The silver window surrounds look great and a bit different. I can't see any reference on Southern Pride's website to pre-decorated sides. Was your pre-decorated, or did you paint it? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I really like that. The silver window surrounds look great and a bit different. I can't see any reference on Southern Pride's website to pre-decorated sides. Was your pre-decorated, or did you paint it? Thanks I have only used the brass SP sides. I will come back to you with a bit more info on the others. In the meantime I have sent you a pic via pm re the FO question you asked earlier. The FOs with identical to RFO bodyshells were rare beasts. Numbered M3000/1/2 they had almost the same seating arrangement and appear (to me) to be identical in roof detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yep I got the photo thanks very much. I know the RFO type of FO was very rare, but it might be my only option at present. I don't know if any made it to preservation, but Rule 1 applies. If Bachmann ever do release another type of FO then at least it gives me a little variation to my rake as well. I do really like that silver windowed Mk1. Maybe that's what makes the Pullman Mk1s look so good as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yep I got the photo thanks very much. I know the RFO type of FO was very rare, but it might be my only option at present. I don't know if any made it to preservation, but Rule 1 applies. If Bachmann ever do release another type of FO then at least it gives me a little variation to my rake as well. I do really like that silver windowed Mk1. Maybe that's what makes the Pullman Mk1s look so good as well? RFO E3 is on the Great Central. All the remaining coaches with this bodyshell (1-11 and 3000-3002) had gone by September 76 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieS Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yep I got the photo thanks very much. I know the RFO type of FO was very rare, but it might be my only option at present. I don't know if any made it to preservation, but Rule 1 applies. If Bachmann ever do release another type of FO then at least it gives me a little variation to my rake as well. I do really like that silver windowed Mk1. Maybe that's what makes the Pullman Mk1s look so good as well? I really like that. The silver window surrounds look great and a bit different. I can't see any reference on Southern Pride's website to pre-decorated sides. Was your pre-decorated, or did you paint it? Thanks It appears SP calls his Brass sides "ETCHMASTER" and his screen printed sides "COLOURMASTER". Both look great and both ran/run on Stoke Summit. The COLOURMASTER RANGE might be your best bet to solve your orignal post. On the SP website find SOUTHERN PRIDE MODELS : BR Mk.1 Gangwayed Passenger Stock - Page 2 and click on the photos. Both C/C and maroon BSOs are illustrated. These are real easy kits no painting, lining, soldering or difficult stuff and the prices are VG. He says (1) Our BR Mk.1 Passenger coaches and SR (BR) Electric Multiple Units come with full colour overlays, with the windows cut out, already fixed to the rigid glazing / sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ok great - unfortunately no FO in crimson/cream however It looks from the photos like there are no door hinges but this is a minor compromise. I just wish I had a comparison shot between the Bachmann and the SP Mk1s to see how they look together! I need some Mk3 flush glazing though, so I will take a punt at a BSO and see how I get on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted May 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2014 Replica produced an mk1 FO a few years back, certainly was available in maroon, green and chocolate and cream. Not sure if they did crimson and cream? They come up on eBay from time to time. I have seen an RMWeb article on painting over the chocolate with crimson, suitably masked. Several articles also provide details on colour matching paint. Another possible solution worth consideration? Replica models are not as tidy as their Bachmann cousins, but can be significantly improved with SE Finecast flush glazing, additional decals (especially 1st class window decals) and handrail wire for the pipe fillers on the roof. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 It looks from the photos like there are no door hinges but this is a minor compromise. From my limited and distant experience of the Southern Pride Mk1's, I seem to remember they came with an etch (ex PC Models?) that contained the hinges, grab and door handles. They make up into really nice models and the preprinted interpretation of carmine (blood) was very convincing. Regards, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 From my limited and distant experience of the Southern Pride Mk1's, I seem to remember they came with an etch (ex PC Models?) that contained the hinges, grab and door handles. They make up into really nice models and the preprinted interpretation of carmine (blood) was very convincing. Thanks for the mini review. I am about to place an order on a maroon BSO - I think with a Bachmann roof it should fit in nicely. (I'm aware the ridges on the Bachmann roof are too prominent but it would look worse to have one right coach and the rest slightly out than have them all matching imho.) What is disappointing is that the FO is sold out in crimson/cream. I read somewhere else that SP aren't planning on re-releasing the Mk1s. This is presumably because of the RTR ones now available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Replica produced an mk1 FO a few years back, certainly was available in maroon, green and chocolate and cream. Not sure if they did crimson and cream? Steve I think they did: from a completed eBay sale. Per Ramsays "BR Mk1 1st Open(FO) M3024 Crimson and Cream Replica Catalogue Ref 12137 (c. 1990?)" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Replica are still about at shows. I bought a BG and a FO last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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