RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted June 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was wondering if any one can confirm if class 45/46 locomotives ever made it to Kings Cross in the mid 1960s?. I know that Gateshead depot had an allocation of class 46 locos for use on the North East South West services, so this class would have been seen on ECML metals are far south as York. I ask as I have seen referance to class 45s being used on the ECML but l could not discern if that was on the Newcastle/Bristol run as well, or standing in for other type 4 workings south to Kings Cross Many thanks in advance Bob C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I've found a 1968 photo here:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3700696933/in/set-72157603653221165 another:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3090735522/in/set-72157603653221165 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 certainly by the late '60s there were Holbeck class 45s working into Kings Cross from Harrogate and Leeds and the Gateshead 46s were also common by this time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted June 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2014 I've found a 1968 photo here:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3700696933/in/set-72157603653221165 another:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3090735522/in/set-72157603653221165 Many Thanks FC, I cant see Flickr images whilst using works IT, so will take a gander once I am home this evening. That also explains why I ve not found them myself!. I note that both shots are dated 1968, l wonder if that's a coincidence or did they start running to the Cross around that date and not before? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Many Thanks FC, I cant see Flickr images whilst using works IT, so will take a gander once I am home this evening. That also explains why I ve not found them myself!. I note that both shots are dated 1968, l wonder if that's a coincidence or did they start running to the Cross around that date and not before? It might be because of the photographer's age or something like that...I'll have a look to see if I can find any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted June 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2014 It might be because of the photographer's age or something like that...I'll have a look to see if I can find any more. Cheers FC, much appreciated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 From memory (I lost my spotting notes for the period prior to 1966), class 46s as they later became were regulars south of Newark in the 1964-66 period and certainly during the yeas after that. Until 1970, I had never ventured further north than Lincoln, so any Gateshead Peaks that I had seen would have been between Barkston Junction and Peterborough, plus the occasional trip to Kings Cross with parents. The only clue I have is a 1965 Locospotters book which has D167, 171, 174, 176, 178, 181, 184/5/6, 189 191 and 192 underlined by the end of 1966 when I got a new ABC combine for a Christmas present. Class 45s were very rare (not unknown, but certainly not frequent) south of Doncaster on the ECML. The 1-Co-Co-1 wheel arrangement was officially banned from the loco yard at Kings Cross, due to the high risk of a derailment trapping most of the booked locos for the rest of the day, but a blind eye seems to have been turned as both 46s and 40s seemed to appear quite regularly stabled with the other locos. It may be that the were confined to certain roads to avoid the sharpest curves, but here I am just guessing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A little later than the period requested, but just to prove that 1Co-Co1 locomotives did find their way to the stabling point at Kings Cross, here's a 1972 Instamatic shot of a class 46 (180) and class 40 (283) flanking class 47 1104. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted June 21, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2014 From memory (I lost my spotting notes for the period prior to 1966), class 46s as they later became were regulars south of Newark in the 1964-66 period and certainly during the yeas after that. Until 1970, I had never ventured further north than Lincoln, so any Gateshead Peaks that I had seen would have been between Barkston Junction and Peterborough, plus the occasional trip to Kings Cross with parents. The only clue I have is a 1965 Locospotters book which has D167, 171, 174, 176, 178, 181, 184/5/6, 189 191 and 192 underlined by the end of 1966 when I got a new ABC combine for a Christmas present. Class 45s were very rare (not unknown, but certainly not frequent) south of Doncaster on the ECML. The 1-Co-Co-1 wheel arrangement was officially banned from the loco yard at Kings Cross, due to the high risk of a derailment trapping most of the booked locos for the rest of the day, but a blind eye seems to have been turned as both 46s and 40s seemed to appear quite regularly stabled with the other locos. It may be that the were confined to certain roads to avoid the sharpest curves, but here I am just guessing. Hi Jonny Many thanks for this information, its just what l was looking for. All I need to do now is track down what services the 46s were working between 64 -66! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hi Blobrick, As I mentioned, I don't have headcodes for that period but in 1967 I have them working such services as 1A09 0740 Sunderland - KX, 1A52 1820 KX - Newcastle, 1N09 1020 KX - Leeds/Bradford, 1A32 1300 KX - Newcastle, 1A38 1420 KX - York. But they were not exclusively used on any of those services, which could just as easily be seen behind a 40 or 47. I doubt 1964-66 was that much different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The Class 47 Preservation Project Archive has a couple of shots of D181 at Kings Cross in April 1965. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted June 22, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2014 I d like to say a big thanks to everyone was helped with this enquiry, the information has been very useful Cheers Bob.C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 In my time at KX 45s and 46s were not common at KX; 40's very rare as most KX men didn't "know" them. AFAIK there was no restriction on them using the "passenger loco" yard, but they were very tight on the curves in the back end of the suburban platforms. As loco crew we would have to be prepared for anything that turned up on trains we were bringing south. Periods before an after bank holidays seemed to bring out the 45s and 46s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 ....ironically, I've several pics of 40s at the Cross from 1963 onwards but could only find Peak pics from the late sixties onwards. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 In my time at KX 45s and 46s were not common at KX; 40's very rare as most KX men didn't "know" them. AFAIK there was no restriction on them using the "passenger loco" yard, but they were very tight on the curves in the back end of the suburban platforms. I took my info on the 1Co-Co1 wheel arrangement restriction from the History Of Finsbury Park, published by the DPS which says, under the heading Passenger Loco - "Derailments and in some cases frame damage led to a ban of the classes with 1Co-Co1 wheel arrangement namely classes 40, 45 and 46. These locomotives should have been serviced at Finsbury Park, but they still could occasionally could be seen squealing onto Passenger Loco for fuel." (page 7). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted June 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2014 Heres D193 in a platform at The Cross in 1964 https://www.flickr.com/photos/70607220@N04/6461080727/in/photolist-d4TB7m-dznYJi-9CWfnZ-8WdJ6B-dJVurH-9sRTAp-9RnQuZ-9sRXwK-9qPeDh-fnWCPr-jacFqC-dL3oQk-eFYUqU-aVYCkK-j9pLsy-CtAyu-7kRXzt-9cyQjn-hm41Lb-jypeTz-fkXR6s-aQWJcz-8hqnYV-8FE1GV-jfA3dr-5vNFRY-dKnR2c-b2ZN7M-9DiQt8-f6bUEN-7KfDaG-b9JU36-8MneV3-e3nc4M-71Cevj-53tra4-71Cesb-777ry6-81JzLb-81EsMc-e7jxxY-j2w1y9-81JzpW-81JAH3-81JA6w-789mRc-83zxqq-7K7EG1-9PL8jA-9UsrqN And heres D176 on the fuelling point - the photographer suggests 1966 but does that Deltic with GFYE date it slightly later perhaps? https://www.flickr.com/photos/curly42/5464528949/in/photolist-9jT95n-ap4ZV4-7K3PSF-7LPRpL-cMyXDs-aKp1wv-6dEZzc-7LPQR1-53tqU2-7LHEi2-9eMkzk-f1fykA-f8XvaE-iMiPPH-7LMAEU-b2qccv-ddFwFe-78df9Q-6dK99Y-asfNfd-6dK9T7-e3ExkL-e3zkBT-5QmV26-7NU1Fi-dtSTSL-bxwBLY-nwjfKp-gVZPjk-dvnZ8k-jDBzKK-7LPVkw-fPyR9Q-6dF1g2-a1UTo8-958791-jDEzzu-c6UXy9-dwZPM3-dRZc87-5RrdaK-9bhc85-fgLWHe-fh2bhE-fgLWCM-c6VdBU-f8Xv3C-f8HeE8-gokfXF-8xnnjP Heres D176 again further north but heading south - at least that gives you train ID but the loco could have been changed further south I guess https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/3623236638/in/photolist-fh1Ka3-fgLuu6-fgLn9K-nwjhpM-mLbyFx-6D23gx-gCva2E-eFfA1G-eF9uJt-eF9uCc-eFfAjL-eFfAAG-eF9ukZ-eFfASN-eF9tQM-eTKKb8-nr5jiK-7VXZ2Y-78deFL-dt8jbE-8MkvfN-kQrcBm-g4QNod-mdtAvS-eFfAsJ-nsvX6X-5JaCyM-gWkBEm-4oVm5R-fdSBLW-fdcgP7-fdcgzJ-fdCj9r-fcWWUK-fdCjpz-fcWWBt-fdSBdy-fdCjHB-fcWWGp-fdCjxR-fdc4Ky-ay2Ymn-adUEnZ-byqJxK-att6K7-jHXAVe-6wb32d-g4QNkC-a2T4Bg-8irf1F Thanks as usual to the Flikr photo sharers! The Derby Sulzer site is also a mine of gen http://derbysulzers.com/46036.html CHeers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Fascinating little book called "Kings Cross Lineside 1958 - 1984" by David Percival has a picture of D181 on "The 3pm to Newcastle.....approaches Sandy on 17th Aug. 1963". it is showing the headcode 1A44. There is also a photo of D171 approaching Knebworth on 14th Jan. 1963 on the up "Yorkshire Pullman". There are mentions in the text of D29 seen at KX on 4th Nov. 1961 and D25 11 days later. Bristol Bath Rd's D35 turned up on Jan 9th 1962. He also writes briefly about the introduction of 40s to Gateshead and Peaks to Neville Hill. Anybody interested in the last days of steam and the transition to diesels on the southern end of the ECML ought to acquire a copy of this book. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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