Andrew1974 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hi All, In the July BRM there is an article (pp 58-59) regarding updating a Lima 42' GUV. I happen to have his model languishing in a drawer unused so thought I would try to follow, what appears to be quite a simple upgrade. One of the biggest changes is to replace the bogies (along with their wheels with huge flanges!) with LMS 9' bogies. The article gives Replica Railways as a source for these bogies, however looking on their website I can find various bogies (B1, B4 commonwealth etc) but no 9' LMS ones. Can any one point me in the right direction of where I may be able to source bogies from? Also, if I was to replace the roof vents, what might be an appropriate produce to use? Thanks Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted June 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2014 Bachmann also market LMS 9' bogies as a spare part - usually about £5-6 for a pair including wheels and couplings. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Bachmann also market LMS 9' bogies as a spare part - usually about £5-6 for a pair including wheels and couplings. Hi, Funnily enough, I am planning to change the bogies at least on one of these, although I didn't know there was an article in BRM. I'll have a look next time I'm in town. I am intending to use the Bachmann 36-024, although it's been out of stock at the usual suppliers for ages. I picked mine up on eBay. Hope that helps, Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I too have the 42ft Lima and did buy the Bachmann bogies. Unfortunately rather than a clip to fit through the hole in the underside of the carriage there is only a hole in the bogie. It didn't come with a clip to fit through both. So at the moment work has halted. I hope that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjp23480 Posted June 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2014 Had that problem as well! I have used a piece of circuit board cut to length and mounted on the bogie, drill for a 8ba bolt and carefully melt the nut into the bogie pivot on the floor moulding. See below. Seems to work okay for me. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagrizz Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I found that when trying to use Bachmann bogies, I couldn't get the ride height correct without the wheels fouling the underside of the floor, so I did some crude hacking with a dremel; Nuts, bolts and washers were used to attach the bogies and get the desired spacing and ride height. Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Hello all, The Lima bogies are underscale, I thnk HO, and the wheels 12mm. It's almost inevitable that 14mm wheels will foul the underframe and has already been said, the mountings are completely different. The alternative to the above is to build up a platicard former, but nuts and washers sounds a bit easier. I'm planning to carry out a similar modification to a Lima Siphon at the same time, but with Hornby (essentially Airfix) GWR bogies. I haven't yet attempted to separate the chassis from the underframe. Anyone got any pointers there? Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Another option here, http://www.norgrove.me.uk/bogie.html Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forest2807 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 While we're on the topic of Lima 42' GUV spares, anyone got a spare roof? Please PM me. Sorry to hijack the thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hello all, The Lima bogies are underscale, I thnk HO, and the wheels 12mm. The issue here is not that they are underscale, more that they represent a BR B1 bogie of 8'6" wb rather than the correct LMS bogie of 9' wb. The less said about Lima wheels the better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This is mine, based very much on what Larry did with his. Replacement roof vents (MJT), Bachmann bogies, wire replacement handrails, MJT door handles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Any ideas on a source for a roof to do the 'Aeroplane Van' version? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The issue here is not that they are underscale, more that they represent a BR B1 bogie of 8'6" wb rather than the correct LMS bogie of 9' wb. The less said about Lima wheels the better! Really? Wow, thanks for that! Well no actually, I don't think anyone is in any doubt that the correct bogies would be to a Stanier pattern. You're stating the obvious! If you'd bothered to read the thread from the beginning, you would see that I wrote this: I am intending to use the Bachmann 36-024, although it's been out of stock at the usual suppliers for ages. I picked mine up on eBay. Hence offering advice as to how to fit the Stanier bogies and giving the reasons why they need raising. It's all very clear, if you read the thread! Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This is mine, based very much on what Larry did with his. Replacement roof vents (MJT), Bachmann bogies, wire replacement handrails, MJT door handles. Very nice, I'll be very happy if mine ends up looking like that - apart from the colour scheme. I have a photo of one in blue at York circa 1973. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 Really? Wow, thanks for that! Well no actually, I don't think anyone is in any doubt that the correct bogies would be to a Stanier pattern. You're stating the obvious! If you'd bothered to read the thread from the beginning, you would see that I wrote this: Hence offering advice as to how to fit the Stanier bogies and giving the reasons why they need raising. It's all very clear, if you read the thread! Alun Well that told me then. I was merely correcting your incorrect assumption that the Lima bogies were to HO scale, but I'll be sure to read all threads more thoroughly in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well that told me then. I was merely correcting your incorrect assumption that the Lima bogies were to HO scale, but I'll be sure to read all threads more thoroughly in the future. No, they are underscale and I'm pretty sure HO, otherwise the wheels wouldn't be 12mm, they would be 14mm as per the Bachmann's. If you have any Lima Mk1s, they need new footwear too. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2014 Really? Wow, thanks for that! Well no actually, I don't think anyone is in any doubt that the correct bogies would be to a Stanier pattern. You're stating the obvious! If you'd bothered to read the thread from the beginning, you would see that I wrote this: Hence offering advice as to how to fit the Stanier bogies and giving the reasons why they need raising. It's all very clear, if you read the thread! Alun That's an excellent way to ensure you get plenty of help and assistance in future. Lighten up. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 No, they are underscale and I'm pretty sure HO, otherwise the wheels wouldn't be 12mm, they would be 14mm as per the Bachmann's. If you have any Lima Mk1s, they need new footwear too. Alun Incorrect, I'm afraid. the Lima BR1 bogie does have the correct wheelbase and is a reasonable 4mm:ft scale BR1 bogie (certainly no better or worse than the old Hornby or Mainline ones of similar vintage. Lima fitted all their rolling stock with 12mm wheels. In the case of their BR1, while it is possible to fit 14mm wheels, you'd also have to reduce the ride height somehow. I used the old Mainline 9' Stanier bogie on my 42' GUV, with a plasticard mount to attach and set the ride height. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 Really? Wow, thanks for that! Well no actually, I don't think anyone is in any doubt that the correct bogies would be to a Stanier pattern. You're stating the obvious! If you'd bothered to read the thread from the beginning, you would see that I wrote this: Hence offering advice as to how to fit the Stanier bogies and giving the reasons why they need raising. It's all very clear, if you read the thread! Alun A dose of good manners required - get out of bed the wrong side by any chance?? Before choosing to flame people I would politely suggest you do a little background check on the person in question. In this case you'd have found that Mark is a very accomplished, but modest, BR wagon modeller. One who is a prolific hacker, converter and detailer of RTR and kits - all to a very high standard of prototype fidelity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well, while I am sure Mark is an infinitely better modeller than me, he jumped on my post without reading the thread and taken it completely out of context. He has marked a factually accurate subsequent post of mine as "disagree", I can live with it. Incorrect, I'm afraid. the Lima BR1 bogie does have the correct wheelbase and is a reasonable 4mm:ft scale BR1 bogie (certainly no better or worse than the old Hornby or Mainline ones of similar vintage. Lima fitted all their rolling stock with 12mm wheels. In the case of their BR1, while it is possible to fit 14mm wheels, you'd also have to reduce the ride height somehow. I used the old Mainline 9' Stanier bogie on my 42' GUV, with a plasticard mount to attach and set the ride height. Actually, I was correct. I am aware that Lima fitted all their rolling stock with 12mm wheels, thank you. This would have been ok with their B4 bogies if they hadn't got them the wrong way round, which means that with the exception of a small handful of early build Mk2s, they need reversing. Regarding the older Hornby BR1 bogies, they also incorrectly have 12mm wheels, although I don't have any left to compare frames and wheel centres. Hardly a defence of the Lima bogie by comparing. I don't have any Mainline BR1 bogies, although I have a pair of their Commonwealths, which stand up very well. Anyway, the camera never lies and all that... The wheel centres and frame on the Lima (top) are narrower than the Bachmann, the frame is also slightly shorter. Alun PS The Mainline 9' Stanier bogie is the same as the Bachmann one, except for the coupling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 In the case of their BR1, while it is possible to fit 14mm wheels, you'd also have to reduce the ride height somehow. This is incorrect too, just tried it as I remember reading that 14mm wheels foul the brake shoes - they do. Also, the bearings would need opening up with a truck tuner or Alan Gibson or similar with 24.5mm axles sourcing. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 No, they are underscale and I'm pretty sure HO, otherwise the wheels wouldn't be 12mm, they would be 14mm as per the Bachmann's. If you have any Lima Mk1s, they need new footwear too. Alun Just because the wheels supplied are 12mm diameter and not the correct 14mm, doesn't mean the whole bogie is to H0. 9ft x 4 for 4mm scale is 36mm WB. 9ft x 3.5 for 3.5mm scale is 31.5mm WB. a much greater difference than your comparison photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Just because the wheels supplied are 12mm diameter and not the correct 14mm, doesn't mean the whole bogie is to H0. 9ft x 4 for 4mm scale is 36mm WB. 9ft x 3.5 for 3.5mm scale is 31.5mm WB. a much greater difference than your comparison photo. Kevin, I didn't say that having 12mm wheels means that the whole bogie is underscale. I was reticent to comment on the accuracy of the old Hornby bogie as I have no idea. However, they do have 12mm wheels and like the Lima, I believe 14mm wheels will foul the moulded brake shoes, although they can of course be cut off. I stated that the Lima bogies are underscale, I was told that they weren't, but they are. Having looked into it further, I do not believe they are HO or strictly OO, lol. While I might have got of the wrong side of the bed, I am not the only one! Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hi All, Also, if I was to replace the roof vents, what might be an appropriate produce to use? Thanks Andrew Andrew, answering your roof vent question... most 42' vans seem to be fitted with torpedo vents like this example. Such castings can be found from the likes of: Comet RC1 247 Developments (could be tricky getting in touch to place the order...) Ratio 110 (not seen these before) Keen Systems (towards bottom of the page) Markits turned brass (download catalogue look for M4CVT in Section 5C) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew1974 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hi Everyone, Thanks for the replies. I am not qualified to comment (becasue I don't have anything in front of me to measure) whether the fitted bogies are a good representation of the BR1 bogie or not, but what is for certain is that they do not look that much like the more appropriate 9' LMS type. I called Replica Railways today (not quite sure why I didn't think of this in the first place) and they confrimed that they do not have any in stock (nor are they expecting to) so I have tried online searching for the 36-024 Bachmann bogies but to no avail, these also seem to be out of stock at Bachmann and the several internet retailers I have tried. Will keep looking, but I guess progress in on hold until I find some - or more acturately, nothing is going to start till I find some, although I might try and get hold of the other bits I will need for now. Thanks Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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