TCS Decoders & Bachmann Locos

[Crewlisle]

I have just bought five TCS DP2X-UK direct plug in decoders to fit in 00 gauge steam locos because of the restricted space in the smoke box.  Three were Hornby & two were Bachmann.  After fitting them to the Hornby locos, they just purred away without requiring any further adjustment, apart from CV3 & 4 (acceleration/deceleration).  The Bachmann locos were a pain in the backside to say the least!

 

The worst one is the LMS 2-6-0 Crab.  I have tried endless combinations of CV5, 6, 54 & 55 but it still will not run slow & smooth.  It can be slowed down to a relatively slow speed & then stops abruptly instead of slowing to a standstill like the Hornby locos.  Starting is very similar.

   

The other Bachmann loco is the BR 2-6-4T Standard Tank.  It is a lot better than the Crab but is not as smooth as the Hornby locos.

 

My operating system is a Lenz LZV100 Command Station & LH90 controllers.  Can anyone suggest what I can do to improve their running?

[Ian Abel]

Curious about the Bachmann locos in terms of condition? Are they new? Run-in? Maybe need some maintenace? How do they run DC?

Only ask because I only use TCS decoders (best value for money in the US here IMHO) and I've used the DP2X-UK in several Hornby and Bachmann locos. The Bachmann are a 9F, N Class, Jinty and a Std. Class 3 tank.

I've never even had to play with CVs (other than setting momentum) and all four run extremely well, both slow speed and smooth control. I've got an NCE Powercab, but not sure the control unit is "supposed" to be a factor, but happy to be told I'm wrong as I'm new to this stuff??

[RFS]

I initially fitted DP2X-UK to a couple of Bachmann locos - Fairburn 4MT tank and Standard 3MT tank.  Both performed poorly with similar symptoms to yours.  The TCS decoders have a function called "dither" and dithering all the time is what they seemed to be doing.  No amount of tweaking with CVs would fix them.  I then found I had a spare Lenz Silver decoder and when I tried that in the 4MT its performance was totally transformed.  Subsequently all my TCS-fitted locos got Lenz Standard+ decoders instead and were very much the better for it.  Moreover the TCS decoders sold on Ebay for more than the replacement Lenz decoders, so I was well satisfied.

[Crewlisle]

Since my initial question, I have been trying another small decoder.  Trying it on the two Bachmann locos gave perfect results & control.  The only trouble is that this was with the bodies removed so if I cannot solve the problem with the TCS decoders I will have to modify the chassis to fit this decoder.

 

And the name of this decoder?  The much derided simple, 4 function Hornby R8249 decoder.  However, I would much prefer a solution to the problems with the TCS DP2X-UK direct plug in decoder because of the restricted space in the smoke box.  Thanks for your replies.  Any further suggestions?

[RFS]

Try a Lenz Standard+.  That's what I have in my Standard 4MT tank. Performance is excellent and there's no problem fitting it.  Bachmann locos are supposed to be able to take their own brand decoder (36-553)  and this decoder is one of the larger ones around.  The Lenz is the same size (or slightly smaller) - hence it easily fits too.

[Crewlisle]

Thanks for that RFS but rather than buy a Lenz decoder I will swop some of my decoders around.

 

I carried on testing this afternoon & tried one of the TCS DP2X-UK decoders in my Bachmann Class 85 via a 21 pin/8 pin adaptor.  It worked exactly as everyone says these TCS decoders should do - quiet & smooth as silk.

 

I realised this afternoon that the problem I am having with my Standard 4MT Tank & Crab could probably be their 'age'.  I bought them when they first came out in 2003/2004.  Since then Bachmann have obviously improved their motors.

[Ian Abel]

Thanks for that RFS but rather than buy a Lenz decoder I will swop some of my decoders around.

 

I carried on testing this afternoon & tried one of the TCS DP2X-UK decoders in my Bachmann Class 85 via a 21 pin/8 pin adaptor.  It worked exactly as everyone says these TCS decoders should do - quiet & smooth as silk.

 

I realised this afternoon that the problem I am having with my Standard 4MT Tank & Crab could probably be their 'age'.  I bought them when they first came out in 2003/2004.  Since then Bachmann have obviously improved their motors.

Ahh, these may even be "split-chassis" models taken over from Mainline, not sure when they changed from that original split-chassis to the new design, BUT, if you check the model number against the Bachmann parts/schemattics you'll find out in a hurry what they are. I avoided buying some "good value" earlier Bachmann locos precisely for this reason, all mine are the new chassis. I've generally heard that they (split-chassis) should be avoided as they inevitably become poor runners, and were never ncessarily good in the first place - hearsay but nevertheless...

[RFS]

The standard 4MT is definitely not an old model - it's DCC-ready for a start.  One of the characteristics of split-chassis models is they are never DCC-ready ....

[Crewlisle]

Both locos have the DCC ready new chassis but were purchased when they first came out in 2003/2004.  I have some split chassis locos & all are good runners.  These are not the original Mainline ones but the Bachmann replacements.

[Andy W]

The Standard 4 tank and 2-6-0, and the Crab have only ever been made with normal, non-split chassis.

The Standard 4 4-6-0 however is on its third version now (Mainline chassis with pod motor, Bachmann split chassis, Bachmann modern chassis plus body rework) which may be what has caused confusion.

 

I've found that the DP2x-UK is sensitive to dirty or misaligned pickups and intensifies any jerkiness that comes from this cause.

[RFS]

The problem with the DP2X-UK decoder in these locos revolves around the way Back EMF has been implemented.  I found some Bachmann locos were not smooth at slow speeds regardless of CV settings.  But if you turn Back EMF off (CV61=0) you get smooth running, but lose slow speed control.  For example, the Fairburn 4MT tank with CV61=0 would run at about 10mph at speed step 1 - the slowest it would run, but at least smoothly.  Changing to a Lenz decoder fixed all the problems without the need to clean or re-align any pickups, which I don't believe is the cause of the problem.

[Ive595]

I have had similar problems with TCS decoders and as I think about it only on Bachmann locos, the latest a 9f that would not run slow, again I think its the 'dither' issue. Unfortunately I just take the decoder out and put in another.

At the moment I am using Digitrax small decoders for cramped space locos, infact I'm using them in everything at the moment. They plug in and work no problem, very smooth operation and under 20 quid.

I only bought 5 TCS decoders and I'm pretty sure they are all in Hornby locos at the moment.

Just had a quick look at my JMRI roster I have 22 digitrax fitted locos and they are all top class runners, including Thomas, Bill and Ben

 

Ivan

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...My operating system is a Lenz LZV100 Command Station & LH90 controllers.  Can anyone suggest what I can do to improve their running?

Buy decoders from the same maker, or Zimo, and all such problems melt away in my experience. The Lenz standard handles all but the most problematic mechs for a modest price. The stubborn cases may be tamed with a Zimo, the extra money buying you the plentiful adjustment for which this maker is famed.

[deadlyduck]

Hi all,ive used a number of decoders,i would say the top 1 is Zimo they have a big range,somewhat pricey.Buy work well in all  make.It was stated some years ago that because of a component the was fixed into Bachmann locos they didnt works well with TCS decoders,it might be that the TCS upgraded in 12012 may have overcome this issue,i have myself got them fitted to Hornby Steam locos (TCS DPX-UK).My locos range in age upto 8 years old.i have no issues with them.It might be worth looking at the New DCC Concepts range of decoders,(ZEN)1 of which is said to be smaller than the plug it replaces.ive sent for 1,see how that goes.Also with the issue of dirty track ,im now staring fitting stay alive/keep alive devices  my decoders.We are and have been been so far behind the US+ Germany as to the way ahead with our Model railways,i think its an inbuilt never in us to resist change.Me i dont bother with Uk websites if i want to know whats new or upcoming.ill access the US or You tube.Ive used nearly all types of decoders.in the end its what you want from 1,in my opinion its Zimo Lenz  ESU 4.0 TCS Digitrax.If you are looking at stay alive features Zimo TCS are at the moment the way to go>with DCC Concepts with their new Zen Range.which im sure will fire someones imagination into the gains of stay alive would love to hear your comments Thank you David

[Crosland]

The problem with the DP2X-UK decoder in these locos revolves around the way Back EMF has been implemented.  I found some Bachmann locos were not smooth at slow speeds regardless of CV settings.  But if you turn Back EMF off (CV61=0) you get smooth running, but lose slow speed control.  For example, the Fairburn 4MT tank with CV61=0 would run at about 10mph at speed step 1 - the slowest it would run, but at least smoothly.  Changing to a Lenz decoder fixed all the problems without the need to clean or re-align any pickups, which I don't believe is the cause of the problem.

 

Did you remove all the capacitors from the loco? They can affect BEMF sensing.

 

Andrew

[RFS]

Did you remove all the capacitors from the loco? They can affect BEMF sensing.

 

Andrew

Yes - removing capacitors was one of the first things I tried.

[Crewlisle]

I have just bought five TCS DP2X-UK direct plug in decoders to fit in 00 gauge steam locos because of the restricted space in the smoke box.  Three were Hornby & two were Bachmann.  After fitting them to the Hornby locos, they just purred away without requiring any further adjustment, apart from CV3 & 4 (acceleration/deceleration).  The Bachmann locos were a pain in the backside to say the least!

 

The worst one is the LMS 2-6-0 Crab.  I have tried endless combinations of CV5, 6, 54 & 55 but it still will not run slow & smooth.  It can be slowed down to a relatively slow speed & then stops abruptly instead of slowing to a standstill like the Hornby locos.  Starting is very similar.

   

The other Bachmann loco is the BR 2-6-4T Standard Tank.  It is a lot better than the Crab but is not as smooth as the Hornby locos.

 

My operating system is a Lenz LZV100 Command Station & LH90 controllers.  Can anyone suggest what I can do to improve their running?

 

Problems solved (well sort of)!  With reference to my original problem at the start of this forum, the solution for the Bachmann 4MT Standard Tank is strange.  After discussing my problem with TCS, their solution was to do a reset & suggested a few CV settings.  They gave me a wrong value to enter into CV6 (which they later told me that it should have been entered into CV5) – but it worked!  In the TCS DP2X-UK, CV5 is the top volts  setting & CV6 is the voltage at mid point in the throttle settings’ speed.  They originally advised me to try CV5 (top volts) = 0 & CV6 (mid point) = 12.  After setting the CVs to these values the loco performed as it should do.

 

However the Bachmann LMS Crab did not like the TCS decoder at all.  So after many hours trying different combinations of CV values I gave up & managed to squeeze a good old Hornby R8249 decoder in the smoke box & now runs like a DCC fitted loco should do.  The TCS decoder will now be fitted in my Hornby Duke of Gloucester I have on order as I have tried it in other Hornby locos & it runs perfectly.

[deadlyduck]

Since my initial question, I have been trying another small decoder.  Trying it on the two Bachmann locos gave perfect results & control.  The only trouble is that this was with the bodies removed so if I cannot solve the problem with the TCS decoders I will have to modify the chassis to fit this decoder.

 

And the name of this decoder?  The much derided simple, 4 function Hornby R8249 decoder.  However, I would much prefer a solution to the problems with the TCS DP2X-UK direct plug in decoder because of the restricted space in the smoke box.  Thanks for your replies.  Any further suggestions?

Hello look at the DCC Concepts Zen ZN8D,that will fit into anything.The decoder is smaller than the 8 pin plug you take out.It also comes with a Stay alive module if you want to use it.You just sol;der this onto the 2 wires that have already been joined onto the decoder,so no chance of blowing it up.Ive fitted 2 so far 1 to a Hornby 8F which is around 6 yers old the other is in a Hornby Grange which is brand new.Ive got all the makes of decoders.In my judgement the Zimo is the best,but is expensive Lenz is the next best coupled with ESUs top of the range decoders.I have around 200 locos,which have Hornby/Bachmann/TCS/Zimo/ESU/ZTC/DCC Concepts (Zen)/Lenz/Digitrax/ decoders fitted in most of them 

.The most problematic are the Bachmann 8 pin + the Hornby 8 pin DCC Concepts are working fine,but are new so time will tell.Lenz Gold decoder are great but have not kept up with the rest,as their size prohibits them in nearly all UK steam locos.I bought 8 TCS-DP2Xs last year + 4 i bought some years ago not had a problem with any

It might be an idea to visit their website,to ask them directly, any question ive had has been replied to the next day.That i would say is a superb customer service

David

[Combe Martin]

If you want a decoder like the TCS DP2X-UK (ie a decoder with the 8 pin plug on the underside and no wires), the ZTC258 is just like this and is roughly the same size.  I've got loads of them fitted to Bachmann and Hornby locos and they work well with no problems, have loads of CVs to fiddle with (if you want to), and perform as well as a Lenz Standard+ but are smaller and with no wires to tape up.  If you want the same but with wires, the ZTC255 is the equivalent. And I've never had one fail.