Bachmann announce Class 90 (OO)

[surfsup]

I imagine Virgin, perhaps 'one' Anglia, grey Freightliner, maybe RES will follow in a couple of years' announcements time so it gives us time to get practising on some repaints! Of course if the flavour-of-the-month Colas gets a 90 then we'll naturally see this fast-tracked to next week haha!!

 

The Hornby Mk3's aren't bad IMHO (less detailing required than a Hornby 90!!) I'd actually start gunning for a '92' to continue the pace here!

 

Excellent choice by Bachmann here though, there's just so many interesting class members that can be modelled, and now without the need to completely rebuild a loco each time you want to make a good one! More time to reinvest in building catenary!

I'd imagine that the likely-hood of a RES Class 90 appearing in next years line up would be fairly high along with an EWS liveried one (90020 please!) as it would fit in nicely with the RES & Parcels sector 47s Bachmann have been producing as well as their TPO and GUVs fleets - 5 To choose from but I still regard it as a fine livery and I'll take one! They were even seen working as late as 2005 in it on the Anglian Services as well as Virgin, so fit's nicely with the longevity bracket.

Edited July 21, 2014 by surfsup

['CHARD]

so without cheating via wiki or google what year did these locos begin to appear? if i model 1986 is that too early to see any 90s on the layout???

 

i keep forgetting the ic mainline livery but will still buy a swallow livery model not even to put in a cabinet but just to take out of the box, handle, feel the weight, maybe phot in a diorama with catenary and generally get familiar with the new machine.ill be up for some mainline versions to run when they come out.

 

1988 in any numbers. 

 

First loco in traffic Q4/87 IIRC.

[87023Velocity]

so without cheating via wiki or google what year did these locos begin to appear? if i model 1986 is that too early to see any 90s on the layout???

 

i keep forgetting the ic mainline livery but will still buy a swallow livery model not even to put in a cabinet but just to take out of the box, handle, feel the weight, maybe phot in a diorama with catenary and generally get familiar with the new machine.ill be up for some mainline versions to run when they come out.

Hi,

 

Almost certain it was 1987 90001 was delivered, I remember it being on the cover of Rail Magazine hauling a rake of flats on test with an RTC Mk3 test car between the loco and stock.

 

I think I will be having a couple, always liked the 90's. Now, class 90, class 85 modelled as 85018 as it ended its days, Bachmann 08721 and Corgi Coles crane in maroon, and maybe a few class 303/304's hmmm could model a nice small electric depot........

 

Cheers

 

Simon

[sub39h]

For the sake of one major new tooling, they would cover a lot of bases and there would be synergy with existing and promised products) and wouldn't be any more a duplicate of an existing product than the MK2 aircons that Hornby and Bachmann announced last year. If the FO/SO tooling brings supporting sales, then I'd worry about the other variants (the catering minefield, sleepers, BFO).

 

 I think the difference here is that Hornby were already developing a new Mk2F and Bachmann beat them to it with their announcement, or at least that is what I heard. They changed it to a Mk2E so they could still recoup some money from the project and carried on. 

 

I sincerely doubt that Bachmann would announce a Mk3 in the manner that you suggest because I doubt Bachmann ever had a Mk3 tooling in 00 that they need to recoup money from. 

 

In regards to manufacturers making models that compliment one another, I don't see why that is such a silly notion. The model railway world is small and we can't rely on a single manufacturer to make all of the things we want. If Hornby already has a Mk3 available, it would be sensible for them to use, for example the ScotRail DBSO that Bachmann are releasing and the Class 90 to focus on their Mk3s - minimal investment could see them reap rewards from loco hauled ScotRail and InterCity Mk3s just by reconfiguring the interior and changing a few vents. If they release another Mk3 DVT alongside they're laughing! 

[298]

87201 was essentially complete at the Crewe Works open day in early July, and painted for the Queen's visit a week later... But with oval buffers and a single yellow panel, above the headlights.

[DaveClass47]

Hi,

 

I cant see this happening with the Hornby MK3...they have just updated the glazing to the new shade of 'smokey grey' so this would have been their ideal opportunity to do the re-tool.  The current MK3 from Hornby sells well and this year Hornby have gone way out there with the range of liveries.   Its not a bad model, but considering we waited nearly 30 years for them to re tool the MK2D/e/f moulding from Airfix I don't think we should get too expentant of a new MK3.  It does the job in its current form.  I for one would be raging if they re-tooled, as I have over 25 on pre order this year lol.

 

Love the class 90 from Bachmann though, but why didn't Hornby do this sooner?!

[DaveClass47]

Hi,

 

Oh I wish someone would re-tool the 91.  I have a small fleet of the 1990 moulded 91 from Hornby and while it is a decent looking model it can do with a revamp.  Working lights, side grilles, couplers, pantograph etc.

 

The Hornby MK4 coach is good, but the MK4 DVT is not in the same league as the Hornby MK3 DVT.  I would love to see Hornby steal a march on Bachmann (who are starting to tread on Hornby's turf a bit with this latest CL90!) and give us an all signing, all dancing Class 91, MK4 and new DVT in Swallow livery.  Iconic livery for an iconic British Loco!

 

I would also love to see a newly tooled 87!

[sub39h]

Oh I wish someone would re-tool the 91.  I have a small fleet of the 1990 moulded 91 from Hornby and while it is a decent looking model it can do with a revamp.  Working lights, side grilles, couplers, pantograph etc.

 

 

Well I think the AC Electric boundary has finally been shattered. Bachmann are well and truly storming on with 85s and 90s and other Classes will follow, be it from Bachmann or another manufacturer. So I can't see it being too long before someone decides to do a new Class 91, Mk4s and DVT. I'm definitely after a full 225 set and another individual Class 91 which I would run with some of the other more unusual formations I've seen (such as with Mk2 air cons, and with the Mk3 rake with the buffered Class 43 DVT). 

[Gerald Henriksen]

I cant see this happening with the Hornby MK3...they have just updated the glazing to the new shade of 'smokey grey' so this would have been their ideal opportunity to do the re-tool.  The current MK3 from Hornby sells well and this year Hornby have gone way out there with the range of liveries.   Its not a bad model, but considering we waited nearly 30 years for them to re tool the MK2D/e/f moulding from Airfix I don't think we should get too expentant of a new MK3.  It does the job in its current form.  I for one would be raging if they re-tooled, as I have over 25 on pre order this year lol.

Updating the glazing didn't involve anything on Hornby's part other than specifying a slightly different material for that component.

 

But I think your final sentence says it all:

 

Love the class 90 from Bachmann though, but why didn't Hornby do this sooner?!

 

Will someone be saying the same thing about the Mk3 if Hornby doesn't get their act together and do it before someone else?

[ThaneofFife]

i know there is the Heljan 86 but i think whats needed is the model the Heljan 86 should havr been. a definitive quality model on a par with the class 85. that and an 87 ought to satisfy most modellers of the wcml with maybe a class 81 to round it all off. i think i will be retired long before we see classes 82, 83 or 84. one reason is that these locos werent exactly in big numbers or lots of liveries.

 

what i think is great is the timing of this class 90 set against Rapido's entry into the uk market. we have another high quality player here now do they might be tempted to snap an electric loco up themselves. we know jason has an affection for the wcml having lived next to it for years.

 

the futures bright......the futures electric!

[Lord Summerisle]

 They certainly appeared in Parcels colours

 

90016-90020 did receive RES colours (with blue flashes) and Hornby did release a trainset with a model of 90020 in Parcels livery, but I'm as close to 100% certain as I can be that none ever received Parcels livery in real life. Sadly, because looking at the Hornby model it would have looked rather smart.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Lord Summerisle

[Tony M]

So when are they going to do

 

90028    Vrachtverbinding
90029    Frachtverbindungen
90030    Fretconnection

 

muahahaha

Edited July 21, 2014 by Tony M

[bigd]

87201 was essentially complete at the Crewe Works open day in early July, and painted for the Queen's visit a week later... But with oval buffers and a single yellow panel, above the headlights.

 

87201 at Crewe Works open day.

How long before they do the white undercoat livery?

[frobisher]

I think the difference here is that Hornby were already developing a new Mk2F and Bachmann beat them to it with their announcement, or at least that is what I heard. They changed it to a Mk2E so they could still recoup some money from the project and carried on.

I seriously doubt that. The MK2E was specifically targeted so that the DBSO was a natural additional, complementary product. The Bachmann product was announced way ahead of the Hornby one (which is closer to production it appears) then if there was a course correction, I suspect you're looking at the wrong company.

 

I sincerely doubt that Bachmann would announce a Mk3 in the manner that you suggest because I doubt Bachmann ever had a Mk3 tooling in 00 that they need to recoup money from.

I was suggesting a fresh tooling and not a reaction to someone pipping them at the post on something they had in development... What I was saying was that Bachmann were in a good position to produce a complementary product range with minimal tooling that filled a gap in the market

 

If Hornby already has a Mk3 available, it would be sensible for them to use, for example the ScotRail DBSO that Bachmann are releasing and the Class 90 to focus on their Mk3s - minimal investment could see them reap rewards from loco hauled ScotRail and InterCity Mk3s just by reconfiguring the interior and changing a few vents.

Yet they haven't have they? They haven't even announced reliveries of the existing tooling for the Scotrail MK3s.

[Talltim]

Agreed on the Euro liveried ones. I went to the Freight Connection 92 Exhibition at the NEC and didn't take a photo of them  
 

90 128 'Vrachverbinding' 90 130 'Fretconnection' 90 129 'Fratchverbindungen' by stuartp1960 on Flickr

 

This thread has good pics too

 

Of course, there's a certain irony that other 90s were painted DB red 20 years later

Edited July 21, 2014 by Talltim

[ThaneofFife]

They haven't even announced reliveries of the existing tooling for the Scotrail MK3s.

 

i was under the impression scotrail mk3s were being led by a special commission. not sure who (i heard C&M then durham trains of stanley) but tbh ive heard diddly since then and that was over 12 months ago.

 

they would look very nice with bachys 47/7 and DBSO now that the coaches have improved smoked windows......

[ThaneofFife]

and i dont mean the n gauge Dapol scotrail sets either...i mean 00.

[Matt]

C&m opted to produce n gauge scotrail mk3s. Durham trains of Stanley were thinking about this in OO and displayed mock ups at Glasgow one year. When asked recently was told project on hold amidst belief another manufacturer was on brink of releasing a new mk3

And they didn't want to run risk of being left holding stock of lesser std ltd eds. personally I don't think it's a case of "if", rather "when" a new mk3 comes along which, as the owner of an extensive fleet of mk3s leaves me with mixed feelings... Guess I should get on and detail those rakes of mk3s in meantime - I'll finish just before the announcement of the new model :-)

M

Edited July 21, 2014 by Matt

[shunny]

Just a thought but I am sure 87001 is at the NRM and there is the press event at the end of the month for their next model?

[Matt]

Just a thought but I am sure 87001 is at the NRM and there is the press event at the end of the month for their next model?

funnily enough I was just thinking the same... How similar are the chassis between 87 and 90? There was definitely an 87 at York on last visit - think was 87001 but not sure on that count. Could the 87 have been under development for some time with nrm and the 90 was an obvious extension to reuse the chassis tooling? Mind you with the APT-E maybe nrm would go with steam for next release? We will see soon enough!

[newbryford]

funnily enough I was just thinking the same... How similar are the chassis between 87 and 90? There was definitely an 87 at York on last visit - think was 87001 but not sure on that count. Could the 87 have been under development for some time with nrm and the 90 was an obvious extension to reuse the chassis tooling? Mind you with the APT-E maybe nrm would go with steam for next release? We will see soon enough!

 

Fairly certain there's not too much difference between the 87 and 90 dimensions.

Pause for a quick look at a book and the bogie wheelbase, bogie centres, wheel diameter are the same for the 87 and 90.

 

IIRC, the 90's were originally touted as 87/2's and the original publicity pics for them had the first loco numbered as 87201.......

 

Cheers,

Mick

[wombatofludham]

Can you imagine the collective dummy-spitting breakdown there will be on these forums on the 29th if a Class 87 is announced based on some reactions to the announcement of the 90?  Andy will have to put up the Samaritans hotline number at the top of the website.

[Matt]

Just been to nrm website and 87001 is not listed as part of national collection. Interestingly Wikipedia suggests it is but references nrm list of items in national collection - on clicking link you get to a blank entry. Has 87001 been taken out of national collection as I gather there has been some rationalisation? Am I going completely o/t now...?

[298]

Can you imagine the collective dummy-spitting breakdown there will be on these forums on the 29th if a Class 87 is announced based on some reactions to the announcement of the 90?  Andy will have to put up the Samaritans hotline number at the top of the website.

Fear not, we haven't had a pre-grouping steam loco yet. There are some big clues out there.

 

As for 87001 being de-listed, there is no reason for this decision, the loco is in good condition cosmetically. A Bachy 87 would be the next logical step, but dint forget the re-using of chassis parts means we've yet to witness a Heljan 89 and Bachmann 81, I did once hear a rumour that Hornby would raid their parts bin to make an 86/1, but knowing them they'd use the Lima 87 bogies...

[ThaneofFife]

to those that are familiar with 87 and 90 its been known for some time of the crossover of the base platform so sticking my neck on the block im going to say a new class 87 from Bachmann is a case of when, not if (ha...you could argue that we are already getting an 87 in the shape of the 90 albeit an 87/2!). those impprtant base chassis dimensions also mirror the class 86s and the bogies also suit an 86/1. a lot of the groundwork will be put in place with bachmanns class 90 ready and poised for those other electrics. i honestly cant see anybody else running with a new 86 or 87 now.

 

At least a new 87 should arrive in plenty of time for my retirement

 

the pantograph is likely to be another part that can be used on 110mph 87s.

i would like to see bachmanns attempt at the original crossarm style pantograph as i believe it would need some kind of sliding arrangement at the base to work like the prototype when being raised or lowered....nothing like the old diamond style on the old Lima 87s.

 

the new 90 certainly is a gamechanger for ac enthusiasts like myself with its potential for an 87 follow up. at least its good now that there is more choice. pay around £120 for a top draw model or less than half that if youre happy with the old Hornby version.

 

its builds on the ac stable and at least overlaps in time with the class 85s.

 

interesting if the rumour about new mk3s is to be believed but i know ive not heard anything. whats needed are loco hauled versions for a kick off like the old joeuf models.

i was of the view that Hornby had a good strong stable of ACs that it could retool for using a common chassis to update its 86/87/90 models but alas i think that horse could now have well and truly bolted. 3 new possible models......gone. i cant see Hornby retooling their 86 or 87 now.

Edited July 22, 2014 by ThaneofFife