Agenoria WR 1366 Pannier for Pencarrow Bridge

[2ManySpams]

Right, today in a little more detail...

 

Cylinders start as flat bits...

 

To which the bolts were soldered...

 

And then bent into a U but not soldered (yet).

 

Next the connecting rods were paired up and soldered together making sure the holes were aligned.

 

A collection of bits...

 

Motion brackets - a little trimmed off the tab so as not to interfere with the compensation beam

 

Brackets fitted, one then two:

 

[2ManySpams]

All going so well, so on to the slide bars...

 

...and even a go at rolling the cylinder wrappers...

 

...but then that little alignment problem:

 

[2ManySpams]

After coming to the conclusion the cylinder width was ok and the motion brackets were too wide, there was nothing left to do but unsolder the brackets.

 

The brackets were aligned to the cylinders using the slider bars. It would appear that the motion brackets were a smidge over 1mm too wide.

 

 

 

Whilst lined up I used the cylinders as the guide to file down the extra from the motion bracket.

 

Here we have a before (left) and after (right) view of the motion bracket mod:

 

I also noted from photos and drawings that the brackets appeared to sit too high and weren't angled enough, so out with the file again before fitting:

 

An improvement and the curved slide bars straightened somewhat:

 

Further pratting around saw the connecting rod fitted and a little tweaking later the wheels went round. 

(need to clean the wheel spokes up!)

 

Long session with seemingly little progress overall.

[Donw]

Long session with seemingly little progress overall.

 

Isn't that normal life though sometimes. The key point is you are happier to have made the change to the brackets.

Don

[Siberian Snooper]

Does she roll as sweetly now as she did without the con rods and cross heads?

[2ManySpams]

Does she roll as sweetly now as she did without the con rods and cross heads?

Not sure yet, there's some bush and bolt shortening to do first. Fingers crossed though.

[2ManySpams]

Isn't that normal life though sometimes. The key point is you are happier to have made the change to the brackets.

Don

Indeed Don, much happier now and the bonus was that I was able to adjust the rake and vertical position of the motion brackets. They previously didn't seem to match photos and the supplied drawing which meant the rake on the cylinders looked too shallow.

 

I am a little surprised that such relatively large adjustments were required on what otherwise seems to be a well designed and good fitting kit. Probably small beer to the professional but a little daunting to the newbie - made me wonder if I'd made a major mistake somewhere!

[84B Oxley]

Chris

As I understand it, you are soldering the motion brackets to the frames. You would make life easier for yourself if you didn't do that, or at the very least not yet: things like removing the front wheels for painting the frames and making minute adjustments to the cylinder angle are much more awkward if you do. Persevere with the chassis, it sounds like you have actually done most of the hard work, you have a rolling chassis so your model should run well eventually. It only took me a month to build 1367 (but I am retired and have built well over 60 other kits; that's not me bragging.) The body goes together fairly quickly, it just takes a long time, I found, to do the riveting-I counted over 1250! Some days you see a lot for your efforts and some days next to none. The nature of the beast!
Jeff

[2ManySpams]

Chris

As I understand it, you are soldering the motion brackets to the frames. You would make life easier for yourself if you didn't do that, or at the very least not yet: things like removing the front wheels for painting the frames and making minute adjustments to the cylinder angle are much more awkward if you do. Persevere with the chassis, it sounds like you have actually done most of the hard work, you have a rolling chassis so your model should run well eventually. It only took me a month to build 1367 (but I am retired and have built well over 60 other kits; that's not me bragging.) The body goes together fairly quickly, it just takes a long time, I found, to do the riveting-I counted over 1250! Some days you see a lot for your efforts and some days next to none. The nature of the beast!

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

 

It's probably not clear from the photos but although the motion brackets are fixed to the frames, the slide bars are not soldered to the motion brackets. This means I can easily remove the cylinder, crosshead and slide bar subassembly. I can therefore tart around with wheels, rods etc without all the gubbins in the way and finish off the cylinders off-chassis.

 

The instructions are strange though... The cylinder etch has different size holes in each end. The instructions say that the big hole goes to the rear which means there's a big gap around the piston. Typo or me misreading?

[2ManySpams]

Rivets.

 

As Jeff pointed out there's lots to do on this kit. Now, my normal low tech and low cost approach is to use a blunt nail and yomma. This obviously isn't the most, err, finesseful method but I can't run to one of the big, posh presses.

 

Do folk have any alternative suggestions that will give better and more consistent results?

[84B Oxley]

Chris

OK, you've obviously thought it through !

Parts number 12 on the etch  are called 'rivet detail plate', they fit around the hole and effectively reduce its diameter to be a snug fit around the piston rod. Dia. 1 shows them. I can post a photo if you like but it won't be until this evening, just about to go out to see 'Union of South Africa' down the road from me.

Jeff

[Simond]

Chris

 

are there a couple of bits of tube in the kit that telescope outside the piston rod and fit in the bigger hole in the back of the cylinders?  if not, do you have a suitable bit of K&S to do the same - this will provide the basis of a "gland" on the piston rod, and support it so it doesn't droop like the last turkey in the butcher's on Christmas eve...

 

regarding rivetting - Leicestershire is not handy to Kent, otherwise you could borrow my press...

 

More usefully, there are a number of "drop presses" shown in old Gazettes which are cheap, effective and reliable.  if you can't find the articles or a sketch, the idea is a cylindrical weight with a hole in it (about the size of a "c" cell battery), sliding on a bit of threaded rod (eg M4 or M5 which you can get from Wickes / B&Q etc).  you sharpen the end of the rod (ideally on a lathe but a big file will do nicely) and you run a pair of nuts onto the sharpened end, and lock them together.  Another pair of nuts at the other end sets the "stroke".  You simply place the pointy bit in the right place, and drop the weight from the top - this is consistent. 

 

You'll have to experiment with setting the length of drop (say about 100-150mm) and choice of a suitable backing material (hardboard, mdf, lead, plasticard) to suit the material you are punching.

 

good luck!

Simon

[buffalo]

Rivetting: I have a posh (not the poshest) press but rarely use it. Mostly, I use a blunted scriber and move the handle through a two to three inch diameter circle about three or four times, depending on the thickness of the material. It can be a bit hard on the fingers, so sometimes I use a drop hammer type as described by Simon. As he says, you can make them quite easily, but mine came from London Road Models and only cost a few quid.

 

I usually use lead sheet or hardwood backing.

 

Nick

Edited August 3, 2014 by buffalo

[Siberian Snooper]

Thanks Jeff,

It's probably not clear from the photos but although the motion brackets are fixed to the frames, the slide bars are not soldered to the motion brackets. This means I can easily remove the cylinder, crosshead and slide bar subassembly. I can therefore tart around with wheels, rods etc without all the gubbins in the way and finish off the cylinders off-chassis.

The instructions are strange though... The cylinder etch has different size holes in each end. The instructions say that the big hole goes to the rear which means there's a big gap around the piston. Typo or me misreading?

Is there a casting which forms the gland around the piston rod?

[2ManySpams]

Chris

OK, you've obviously thought it through !

Parts number 12 on the etch  are called 'rivet detail plate', they fit around the hole and effectively reduce its diameter to be a snug fit around the piston rod. Dia. 1 shows them. I can post a photo if you like but it won't be until this evening, just about to go out to see 'Union of South Africa' down the road from me.

Jeff

Just having a lawn cutting break, parts 12 are as large as the cylinder casing see photo below, but I've just spotted and found casting 100 which looks like it fits between the slide bars and holds the piston in line (although only on three sides unless I've missed something). Part 100 is in the second photo below and is in between the pliers tips.

 

I am m wondering if a bit of brass tube may be better mechanically...

 

Enjoy UoSA!

 

[2ManySpams]

Can you fit the crosshead screw from the other side? Fit a slimmed down nut to the outside as it looks better than the slot of a screw, and they often did have a nut there.

Yes, done that now...

[2ManySpams]

Does she roll as sweetly now as she did without the con rods and cross heads?

A few minor contact issues to sort first but everything goes round and round.

 

 

(Phone camera makes straight things curved in closeup!)

[Simond]

Chris

 

Back in Kent - please find some photos of my CRT model below:

 

You'll see from the not very good photo that the clearance is microscopic between the rods and the back of the crosshead - hence the recessed con rod and very short bush on the leading axle.

 

It appears that your kit has far more space in this area - assuming the cylinders are the same outside dimensions, I guess the difference must be in the slide bars.

 

I still have not fitted my vacuum pump, as it appears almost impossible! I'm waiting for you to fit yours, and I'll copy you!!!

 

Best

Simon

[84B Oxley]

Chris

I'd forgotten about the gland castings..............and 60009 was very nice, thank you. Somehow GWR Green suits A4s best I think (others may/will disagree!)

Thinking back, I didn't feel the need for any tube in the cylinders to support the piston rods, the stroke is pretty short so it isn't vital but certainly wouldn't do any harm if you did use some. Looking at your photo, it seems to me that your coupling rods stand proud of the wheels by a relatively large distance, the effect of using the top hat bush the way that Slaters recommend. If instead you put the supplied washer on the crankpin next to the wheel and fastened the bush on from the outside of the rods you would gain a little more clearance behind the crossheads and wouldn't have to use the unprototypical nuts. The bushes should tighten up against the washer and give a secure fixing. Once the model is completed, a tiny spot of Loctite on the crankpins stops any chance of them coming adrift.

 

Simon

Fitting the vacuum pump to the Agenoria one is a bit of a faff but is certainly doable, as you can see from the photos of 1367 earlier in this thread. Your model looks very good by the way, much better than some efforts I have seen in the past.

 

Jeff 

[3 link]

 

 

Long session with seemingly little progress overall.

 

It pays to spend a bit of time getting the motion right, and like you say it does not look like you have done much, but at this stage it is very important to get the wheels and motion to run like a Swiss clock.

 

Looking a what looks like the cylinder wrappers, they appear quite thick so when you get to the stage of fitting them it might be best to anneal them first.

 

Martyn.

[Simond]

Sorry, have come a little late to this thread. I have built one of these kits recently and very nice it is too. The etchings are very good indeed (although mine didn't come with pre-folded tanks) but I found the castings a bit of a mixed bag-I threw away the chimney and safety valve covers and got some suitable ones from JPL, I am fortunate in that I am only a fifteen minute drive from their shop. My only real criticisms were the aforementioned castings and the confusion over the tank rivets(or lack of. Fortunately, I looked at plenty of photographs beforehand). I'm not totally convinced that the cab isn't a touch too narrow, judging by photographs but I can't be certain.

As for the compensation arrangement, I found that it didn't work particularly well, not freely enough, so all I did was remove the beams, put a stop above each of the leading axleboxes and let the centre ones find their own ride height. Seems to work. Due to the design of the kit it is not really possible without a lot of butchery to fit a large motor, I used a second-hand RG7 from the aforementioned JPL and it performs admirably, runs nice and slow too. I would recommend fitting plenty of weight in the tanks, there's loads of room. I soldered some offcuts of lead sheet in them. The loco will haul eight heavy coaches up the slight incline on our club layout. I think that's good enough.

Hope all this helps. I also bought a copy of The Pannier Papers Number 6 by Irwell Press on this class and the 1500s, some very useful photographs. A dig around flickr and the Rail Photoprints website will also turn up some useful photographs. I will be away from my laptop for a fortnight from Wednesday but if I can help just ask. Photos attached of my slightly battered 1367-I spent an hour in the cab of the real one at Wadebridge in 1964 so just had to build one.

Jeff

Jeff

 

Thanks for your kind comments - I'd be very proud to have built one as nice as yours!

 

Please could you do me a favour and measure the overall width of your motion brackets?

 

The CRT kit needed "quite a bit of help" including a new home-made motion bracket, and I fear that I may have not made it sufficiently wide to suit the vac pump. If you could also tell me how far it is from the outside of your vac pump to the inside of the frame on that side I can probably figure a way to sort mine out.

 

Thanks in anticipation

Simon

Edited August 3, 2014 by Simond

[84B Oxley]

Simon

 

Thanks for your kind comments too! Overall width of the motion brackets on my model is 60mm, from the outside of the vacuum pump to the inside of the adjacent frames is 18mm. Hope this helps.

 

Jeff

[Simond]

Jeff

 

Thanks for that - mine is only 56mm wide which might explain the issue.

 

Due to the location of the pick-ups on mine I can't directly measure the offset from the frames on mine, but I'm guessing that your 18mm figure puts the pump just outside the edge of the footplate - does that sound about right?

 

My frames are 27mm inside, half of this would be 13.5, add 18 = 31.5, and the footplate is 60mm wide so about 1.5 wider than the footplate. I'm sure mine would fit in this case.

 

Chris

 

Please pardon the interruption!

 

Best

Simon

[84B Oxley]

Simon

 

Yes, that sounds about right. Happy to help and I'm sure Chris doesn't mind!

Jeff

[2ManySpams]

The order arrived today from Slaters whilst I was at work. I ordered 5 items and 4 arrived. Guess which key item(s) was missing? Clue: i needed two of them.