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Bachmann Dynamis Ultima


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It seems to have largely slipped under the radar, but Bachmann's Dynamis system is getting an upgrade ( or rather it's getting the specification it should have had when it first came out) Ultima is getting a USB port to allow connectivity to a pc. Noticed this in the new catalogue today, can't remember what else is new with the system, but I am sure more details will come to light over the next couple of days 

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Sounds like it might be a rebadged version of the ESU Navigator, http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/navigator/introduction/ which always did have a USB port. If it is, will it have the multiprotocol (MM, Selectrix & mfx as well as DCC) capability of the Navigator, or just DCC? 

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Sounds like it might be a rebadged version of the ESU Navigator, http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/navigator/introduction/ which always did have a USB port. If it is, will it have the multiprotocol (MM, Selectrix & mfx as well as DCC) capability of the Navigator, or just DCC? 

 

It does look to be the Navigator; but it's a good question about the multi-protocol facilities.

 

Just guessing...as this system (Dynamis/Navigator) has been produced in different guises in various different housings, is this simply a case of rationalisation to reduce the various models down to one, thus reducing costs?

I'm assuming that the sales numbers of the Dynamis and Navigator are much reduced these days.

 

In summary, these have been the previous versions (please correct me if I'm wrong)......

 

Bachmann Dynamis

Bachmann Dynamis Pro Box (add-on unit)

(As well as being sold separately, these have also been retailed together in a combined package)

 

ESU Navigator (multi-protocol with USB)

ESU Navigator DCC (DCC only without USB)

 

The Dynamis Ultima may turn out to be the Navigator DCC, but with the inclusion of the USB port ?

 

 

 

.

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Well its all guesswork without any documentation from the maker.

 

However, if it is a Navigator with USB, then the question is what software supports it ?   There is limited (untested according to the documentation) support in RocRail, the commercial software TrainController includes the Navigator in its supported products list.  There is currently no support for the Navigator in JMRI. 

 

I know the ESU documentation for the ECoS means that running of a layout is possible from the computer, but assistance with decoder programming is not possible.  The documentation I've read for the Navigator has similar limitations; possible to run trains from the computer, but not no information is provided by ESU to allow computer assistance with programming of decoders.

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Well its all guesswork without any documentation from the maker.

 

However, if it is a Navigator with USB, then the question is what software supports it ?   There is limited (untested according to the documentation) support in RocRail, the commercial software TrainController includes the Navigator in its supported products list.  There is currently no support for the Navigator in JMRI. 

 

I know the ESU documentation for the ECoS means that running of a layout is possible from the computer, but assistance with decoder programming is not possible.  The documentation I've read for the Navigator has similar limitations; possible to run trains from the computer, but not no information is provided by ESU to allow computer assistance with programming of decoders.

ESU products do not currently support decoder programming using 3rd party software products such as JMRI or Trainprogrammer.

 

They do support layout control software, BUT check with the software manufacturer's web site if they have implemented the necessary interfaces for ECoS or Navigator.

Edited by GoingUnderground
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It does look to be the Navigator; but it's a good question about the multi-protocol facilities.

 

Just guessing...as this system (Dynamis/Navigator) has been produced in different guises in various different housings, is this simply a case of rationalisation to reduce the various models down to one, thus reducing costs?

I'm assuming that the sales numbers of the Dynamis and Navigator are much reduced these days.

 

In summary, these have been the previous versions (please correct me if I'm wrong)......

 

Bachmann Dynamis

Bachmann Dynamis Pro Box (add-on unit)

(As well as being sold separately, these have also been retailed together in a combined package)

 

ESU Navigator (multi-protocol with USB)

ESU Navigator DCC (DCC only without USB)

 

The Dynamis Ultima may turn out to be the Navigator DCC, but with the inclusion of the USB port ?

 

The Navigator DCC Only version (50302) was also sold in Tillig sets in Europe, as well as being sold as a stand alone product in N America. 

 

The Navigator Multiprotocol (50300) version's USB port was initially inoperative, but can be activated if the Navigator is connected via the ECoSLink port to an ECoS running ECoS Firmware Version 3.5.0 or later. The ECoS firmware contains an update for the Navigator Multiprotocol's own firmware that automaticaly updates the Multiprotocol version's own firmware and activates the USB port. This firmware update process does not apply to the DCC only version of Navigator.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well the new Bachmann 2014 catalogue dropped through my letterbox this morning and we are now slightly wiser about this new version of the Dynamis/Navigator system.

 

36-504 Dynamis Ultima

 

 

 

".....Combining the best features of Dynamis with the Pro Box and more....."

 

OK, so it's a rebadged Navigator then ?

..or is it ?????

 

 

Using the poetic licence often employed in sales baloney.....

 

 

 

".....Unlike the Pro before it, Dynamis Ultima is not an extension pack: it is an entirely new system......."

 

It then goes on to add.....

 

 

 

New features include a Booster connection...(etc, etc,). ......and a USB link, enabling you to connect the system to a computer and run model railway software....."

 

No further flesh on the bones, so what software and when?

 

The only other info is on page 24, where there is confirmation of the inclusion of a USB interface and the CDE connections for a Booster; plus the previously unannounced provision of RailCom.

 

 

Meanwhile, the dedicated Dynamis web site lies semi-dormant and devoid of product items, not having been updated in ages.

 

 

 

 

.

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Well the new Bachmann 2014 catalogue dropped through my letterbox this morning and we are now slightly wiser about this new version of the Dynamis/Navigator system.

 

36-504 Dynamis Ultima

 

 

 

 

OK, so it's a rebadged Navigator then ?

..or is it ?????

 

 

Using the poetic licence often employed in sales baloney.....

 

 

 

 

It then goes on to add.....

 

 

 

 

No further flesh on the bones, so what software and when?

 

The only other info is on page 24, where there is confirmation of the inclusion of a USB interface and the CDE connections for a Booster; plus the previously unannounced provision of RailCom.

 

 

Meanwhile, the dedicated Dynamis web site lies semi-dormant and devoid of product items, not having been updated in ages.

 

 

 

 

.

If it includes a separate external booster connection then that makes it a different beast to the current multiprotocol version of Navigator.

 

The Navigator, at present, can only be used as a booster to an ECoS via the 6 pin miniDIN socket ECoSLink port using the 6 to 7 pin ECoSLink cable, it cannot drive a booster directly as it has no dedicated booster connection port.

 

What would be more interesting to know is whether the problems with IR interference via the IR transmitter/receivers or, as some have reported, via the power supply have been fixed. 

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If it includes a separate external booster connection then that makes it a different beast to the current multiprotocol version of Navigator....

Indeed Keith; as I pointed out, it is listed as a new feature......

 

 

OK, so it's a rebadged Navigator then ?

..or is it ?????

 

It then goes on to add......

This looks to be a 4th version of the Dynamis/Navigator platform.

 

 

 

The Navigator, at present, can only be used as a booster to an ECoS via the 6 pin miniDIN socket ECoSLink port using the 6 to 7 pin ECoSLink cable, it cannot drive a booster directly as it has no dedicated booster connection port.

Indeed so and quite a curious situation, considering that the ECoSBoost is in a housing that is specifically designed to stack with the Dynamis/Navigator central control units (and the Pro Box for that matter); but that development wasn't followed through.

 

I suspect the underbody connecting pins would have been used for such a Booster connection, had that development path been followed?

Better late than never though, even if it's by a different route...if they can sell them, that is? 

 

 

.

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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...............Indeed so and quite a curious situation, considering that the ECoSBoost is in a housing that is specifically designed to stack with the Dynamis/Navigator central control units (and the Pro Box for that matter); but that development wasn't followed through.

 

I suspect the underbody connecting pins would have been used for such a Booster connection, had that development path been followed?

Better late than never though, even if it's by a different route...if they can sell them, that is? 

 

For me it doesn't follow that ECoSBoost and Dynamis sharing a common housing meant that they were always intended to work together.

 

The housing was first used for the ECoSBoost, where users with large layouts might want to stack several ECoSBoost units, i.e. it stacks with itself. Using it for the Dynamis and Navigator might have been simply a cost saving measure (why design a new housing when you have one that will already do the job), or deliberate if the original Dynamis concept always involved the development of a ProBox where stacking was an integral part of the design.

 

Also as Navigator can be used as an external booster with an ECoS, and at one point was intended to allow you to use the Navigator handset as an additional throttle with ECoS (Warning: You cannot use Navigator or Dynamis as an additional ECoS throttle), making Navigator, (and with it Dynamis) stackable with ECoSBoost may also have been a design criteria for ESU.

Edited by GoingUnderground
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For me it doesn't follow that ECoSBoost and Dynamis sharing a common housing meant that they were always intended to work together.

 

Unless someone at ESU can say one way or another, I guess we don't know the definative answer to that one?

 

 

The housing was first used for the ECoSBoost, where users with large layouts might want to stack several ECoSBoost units, i.e. it stacks with itself.

 

I'm sure it's very likely that all these products were designed at a similar time and as a related family, used many common parts, including casework.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (I sometimes am), but I seem to remember the Dynamis was announced almost a year before the ECoSBoost eventually found its way onto shop shelves.

In typical ESU fashion, the ECoSBoost took a long time before appearing, having been announced quite a time before.

 

I believe the Dynamis system was announced at Warley in November 2006 and IIRC, appeared in the shops early/mid 2007.

I've got a hunch that the ECoSBoost was announced with the ESU 2007 range (Jan 2007) and appeared the following winter.

 

The Pro Box came later than both of those (also late by something like 18 months to two years), as did the Navigator version of the system

 

 

Using it for the Dynamis and Navigator might have been simply a cost saving measure (why design a new housing when you have one that will already do the job),

I think that's very likely Keith, as they were probably all designed around the same time.

 

However, I remember the Bachmann people at Warley and Ally Pally, explaining that the then new Dynamis system was designed to be modular (e.g. Pro Box) and that the modules would neatly clip and stack together.

I'm pretty sure Boosters were mentioned or suggested then, although they did make an effort to point out the suitability of their own 5 amp EZ Booster.

When asked about a USB computer interface, they said it would be included on the forthcoming Pro Box, which would also bring to the Dynamis all sorts of wonderful extra functionality.

The expected price of the Pro Box? £45 - £60'ish they said. 

We know how that panned out ! (no USB, £130)

 

I can well imagine those Bachmann folk were only equipped with some of the facts and were talking the product up (or were BS'ing), to cover over some of the unknowns or deficiencies in information. at that time.

Maybe they had originally planned a simplified "dumb Booster" and had abandoned that? Who knows?

 

I also remember the large degree of bitter disappointment expressed, when the Pro Box eventually appeared, but minus the promised USB port.

Bachman explained that it was impossible to incorporate one into the system. Beyond the laws of physics and Einsteins theory blah blah blah.....

A couple of months later, the Navigator appeared........complete with a USB port !!!!!

 

 

 

....or deliberate if the original Dynamis concept always involved the development of a ProBox where stacking was an integral part of the design......

The Pro Box was announced at the initial launch of the Dynamis.

As I said above, the Dynamis was announced to the world as a "modular system", with the promise of extra component boxes.

Only the Pro Box was actually mentioned by name at the time, when it also appeared on the very first flyer handed out by Bachmann at Warley 2006.

 

I'm sure non of this matters at all.....?

 

 

 

.

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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Ron's memory of the Bachmann information at the Warley launch of the Dynamis match mine.   I was an exhibitor at that Warley show when the Dynamis was announced, so had access when the public were not there.  So, I took the chance to chat with the Bachmann people who were introducing the Dynamis without the pressure of a crowd.   I had the same story; stackable parts, expandable by plugging another box underneath, USB in the "Pro" box, all bits in very near future, etc.. etc.. 

 

As to what's in the new box, who knows.  But, unless there is a new interface specification from ESU (not currently there for Navigator or ECoS), then the computer interface won't help with decoder CV setup, its purpose will be limited to the running of a layout.  

 

 

With benefit of hindsight, I made a good decision to go for an established maker with real products to sell (Digitrax in my case), rather than a pile of vapour-wear.    

 

 

- Nigel

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  • 5 months later...

The Bachmann Dynamis web site has finally been revamped, ready for the release of the updated Dynamis Ultima system, announced last July.

 

Dynamis Ultima.

 

Also the Bachmann Collectors Club monthly news email arrived today. It included the news that the Ultima will be in the shops "very soon".

 

 

There's no word on any improvements to IR performance and robustness, or reliability of the handset joysticks.

 

 

.

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  • RMweb Gold

Trouble is.....it really tells you....sod all! the site that is....

 

I was at a cross roads when the dynamis came out it was either that or the elite....and ive not regretted it.... the dynamis is just a badge engineered navigator, theres no way ESU would allow to be competitive with there product under a different name so its safe to say its going to have "deficiencies"

 

Again it looks the same design so I suspect the joystick problems....

 

personally I just think Bachmann are trying to re-sell when most of it should be given for free as a firmware upgrade..... Hornby to there credit are doing this with the klunky elite they have expanded its functions exponentially!

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  • 11 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I was up at the Bachmann trade open day today, and saw a demonstration of the new RailController software using the Ultima system - very impressive! Even this computer 'numpty' found the programming you can do with the system easy to comprehend.

 

It is still at the Alpha stage of development, and over the coming months will be refined and the few remaining bugs will be ironed out. But I defy anyone to find a better DCC system, with such a user friendly computer interface and program for a price tag of less than £300.

 

Further details will emerge ahead of the summer 2016 launch, but for those considering a system with the facility of multiple users, computer control and programming, I would give this product some serious consideration.

 

I have had a Lenz Set 100 system which has performed faultlessly for some 20 years now, and what I saw today has got me thinking about making a change.

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I am looking at DCC systems with computer control but I am not keen on the Dynamis handset, did you notice if there was an option to use a tablet(s) as with Hornby's Railmaster?  If this is possible I will hold off buying until the Bachmann system is available.

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The demonstration was being driven off a laptop computer, and to someone who spent years using a keypad on his Lenz system (LH100), was very clear at to what it all meant..

Extra Dynamis handsets can be added to give extra users on the system.

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I am looking at DCC systems with computer control but I am not keen on the Dynamis handset, did you notice if there was an option to use a tablet(s) as with Hornby's Railmaster?  If this is possible I will hold off buying until the Bachmann system is available.

 

My understanding is that Apple and Android versions of the software will be available in due course so it should give tablet/phone accessibility.

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  • 4 months later...

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