Clubs & Council Tax

[locomad]

I'am a member of a local club which is fortunate thanks to past members in owning its own building an old commuity centre in a nice attractive village.

 

It has been and up to next april excempt from Council Tax like churches, schools, commuity halls, village halls etc, However we have been told from next April we will have to pay council tax on the building which must mean the members (and we are not rich or that many) will have to pay more subscriptions.

 

Now we don't know the full details whether its unifrom business rates or our building will be placed in a council tax band, but considering its a large building it could attract more the F, G, H, band currently costing over £2000 - £4000, large sum shared between say 20 members. My worry is many members will just leave join similar but not model railway clubs, for example my local railway circle charges just £10 pa for 8 meeting a year.

 

What I like to know is if any other clubs pay council tax ?, there seems to be a grey area as a mountaining & walking club I'am a member of pay council tax for a bunk house they own in North Wales, there property is valued at £500K but there is over 100 members to share the cost out. I asked why some years ago and told in that county they did charge, but if the building was in neigbouring county it would not.

 

As for commuity halls my current partner has been told her dance keep fit class subs currenty £2 per night will jump to £5 next april on asking why, told the premisses will attract council tax next year, many smaller groups have given there notice in, leaving larger groups having to pay more to make ends meet and keep the hall viable.

[Revolution Mike]

I'm a trustee of a climbing club hut in N Wales and we do not pay council tax as far as I remember.

 

Potentially any non-domestic building could be subject to business rates (which would be much more expensive) but councils have discretionary powers to not charge rates (or to give partial discounts) to non-proft bodies - our climbing bunk house is currently exempted from rates.  However they are coming under increasing pressure from central Govt about this and their spending in general.  Long term I'm not at all confident that we will stay out of business rates.

 

Cheers, Mike

[TheQ]

My sailing club has paid rates for years.

 

We even have to pay council tax on mooring plots across the river, no road access no facilities what so ever but a 30 by 30 ft plot 15 years ago was 500pounds a year Tax.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The Govt have indeed been putting a great deal of pressure on local Valuation Office Agencies to rake in as much Business Rates revenue as possible. I have had some very firm discussions with VOA several times recently.

 

Business rates are calculated as a percentage of a notional rental value - regardless of whether or not any rent is actually charged. So, for instance, one of the difficulties for our Town Council in offering free car parking is that the said car park attracts Business Rates at £6000 per annum which we have to pay. Why should council tax payers in the town, who don't use the car park, pay through their council tax bill for motorists from elsewhere to park for free?.

 

As per earlier post, your local authority (District or Unitary) can give full or partial exemption to non-profit bodies. But Councils are so strapped for cash at present that they are much less inclined to do so now than a few years ago. It can only lead to a savage reduction in services offered for free by volunteers to the community. How that is thought to be "best-value" I don't know. Suggest you ask your MP. Can't say more without breaking the "non-politics rule" that we espouse on RMWeb.

[Mike Bellamy]

 

First of all as mentioned above, do not confuse Council Tax charged on domestic properties in the various alphabetical bands you have mentioned, with Business Rates which are charged based on the 'Rateable Value'. We had an exemption but every three years had to submit our accounts and claim again for Rate Relief. Three years ago we did the same and this time it was refused as our group did not serve the wider community and showed no evidence of financial need. Although the Club is open to all, it is set up for a specific purpose and only caters for railway modellers!

 

However when the rates bill came (by coincidence about £1500 for a building 1500 sq ft)we found that we were eligible for Small Business Rate Relief - apparently there is a fund of money to support small businesses by cutting their rates bill and as we were liable for Business Rates we must have been a Business and were granted 100% relief so nothing to pay - it's been like that for two or three years now and we didn't claim as it was done automatically. I suppose it's a book keeping exercise - one the one hand look how much Business Rate we got and on the other hand look how much we supported small businesses by giving them refunds!

 

You should also be paying Water Rates - we don't pay for any water coming in as it comes from the Community Centre supply and we pay them separately as they are on a meter, but we have to pay for rainwater and sewage disposal again based on the Rateable Value - so if you have a roof you are liable if it rains!

 

.

[locomad]

Thank you all very much for your replies, its the first time the club looks like it will be hit by council tax or business rates so given us and a few other members who are worried by this ideas to limit the size of the hit. If its Business rates I've heard about small business rate tax relief, thing is like a lot of things one has to claim it no one will tell you .

 

It still seems a grey area regarding who pays business rates certain charitiy shops in the high st get 100% off others have to pay a charge, same applies to clubs, I've found out one golf club pays nothing yet another does all within the same county.

 

The club pays water rates on rateable value , I've suggested a meter cause with just 1 loo & 2 taps I reckon it save a lot, in my property rainwater & sewage is calcuated on 90% of water used so with a meter and little use it can be a lot cheaper.

[great central]

Thank you all very much for your replies, its the first time the club looks like it will be hit by council tax or business rates so given us and a few other members who are worried by this ideas to limit the size of the hit. If its Business rates I've heard about small business rate tax relief, thing is like a lot of things one has to claim it no one will tell you .

 

It still seems a grey area regarding who pays business rates certain charitiy shops in the high st get 100% off others have to pay a charge, same applies to clubs, I've found out one golf club pays nothing yet another does all within the same county.

 

The club pays water rates on rateable value , I've suggested a meter cause with just 1 loo & 2 taps I reckon it save a lot, in my property rainwater & sewage is calcuated on 90% of water used so with a meter and little use it can be a lot cheaper.

Hmm, don't be so sure on the water issue. Our last water bill for 6 months was over £112. The metered water used was £4.59! The rest is drainage and standing charges.

 

You are most likely to be charged business rates, as you don't occupy domestic premises. 

[chris p bacon]

Hmm, don't be so sure on the water issue. Our last water bill for 6 months was over £112. The metered water used was £4.59! The rest is drainage and standing charges.

 

You are most likely to be charged business rates, as you don't occupy domestic premises. 

Yes but it depends on what the rateable charge is compared to a meter.

 

The last 12 months water bill for my house was £110 with a meter, the last bill paid using the old rateable value was £670........in 1996 ! without a meter we would of been up above a £1000 a year a few years ago.

[great central]

Hmm, don't be so sure on the water issue. Our last water bill for 6 months was over £112. The metered water used was £4.59! The rest is drainage and standing charges.

 

You are most likely to be charged business rates, as you don't occupy domestic premises. 

 

Sorry, I might not have made clear that this is for club premises, with two toilets,  and three taps, one of which is unusable due to the waste pipe leaking.

 

At home we're still on rateable value which is cheap as our RV is low. Not been changed for many years, less than £200 per year.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... we will have to pay council tax ...

It's the councillors that the electors voted for that need to be tackled. Do some research to find out where the controlling local authority is in respect of revenue, demand for services, orientation toward not for profit hobby activity, plans for development. It will be easier to deal with councillors if at least some of the club members are resident in the electoral wards of the local authority. Don't be confrontational, tread softly and find out what the council wants. (If it is simple as 'revenue' breathe a major sigh of relief and work out what you are going to do about it. Think flexibly and consider all available options, could you sell and go elsewhere for example?)

 

Keep in mind that local politics is notoriously dominated by 'interests', and this is facilitated by most of the electors paying very little attention. Much of it is about bragging rights over (financial) success: 'Jones couldn't get that development through, but I got it passed, and ho-ho-ho'.