Argentina - Ferrocarril

[trisonic]

Argentina has a large railway system - mostly radiating out from Buenos Aires. The railways seem to have all been built by either British or French companies. At least two gauges 5’ 6” (British) and Metre (French).

 

Very interesting system and would make fascinating model layouts. 

 

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=494765&nseq=131

 

Retiro Railway Terminus of the Ferrocarril General San Martin in Buenos Aires.

 

Argentina has a rich history of railways in South America and a phenomenal old network radiating out from BA.

 

Some history of this 5’ 6” gauge line, one of the “British” railways in Argentina:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocarril_General_San_Mart%C3%ADn

 

If anyone complains I’ll move it to the Overseas section.

 

Best, Pete.

[John_Hughes]

Now that is nice, and the British influence still very clearly visible, even in the track layout.

[trisonic]

Here’s a photo taken in the other direction looking “down” the line:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=382236&nseq=3

 

 

Note:

 

Signals.

Signal Box.

Distant over pass from which the first photo was apparently taken (and why the tracks appear more “wonky” than they really are).

Buffers on an ALCO.

Couplings.

 

What does interest me is just how tiny the check rails seem to be  on the turnout/points/switches.

 

Best, Pete.

[The Stationmaster]

Delectable stuff Pete - love all those Stevens' pattern signals (no doubt 'Made in England', a long time ago.

[trisonic]

I’m a sucker for odd railways - and this line like many radiating out from Buenos Aires - is actually quite long in distance.

 

The passenger trains, themselves, are quite beautiful:

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=495531&nseq=5

 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=461464&nseq=41

 

Best, Pete.

[EddieB]

It is rather stretching the Monroe Doctrine to include Argentina within this section, Pete!  (BNSF Argentine Yard, perhaps?)

 

Argentine trains certainly look a lot smarter in the "new" corporate livery than their run-down state when everything was part .of the monolithic Ferrocarriles Argentinos.  A pleasant surprise to see the Alco RSD16s are still going strong.  Like everything else in Argentina (banknotes, street names in every town, er battleships...), the privatised railway companies have commemorated the national hero generals.  Retiro itself is a complex of three adjacent termini - Mitre and San Martin being 5'6" gauge, Belgrano of metre gauge.

[trisonic]

Ah, someone that knows something! Yeah I’ll probably move the thread to Overseas on Monday once I’ve “milked”  the crowd here.

 

I never actually made it to Buenos Aires though I have watched part of their fleet through binoculars from Montevideo, in the early eighties...

 

Personally I like the idea of ALCO RSD 16’s with Buffers and British style couplings.

 

See: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=481416&nseq=9&favsearch=1

 

Best, Pete.

[doctor quinn]

A gentleman with the handle of Diegio Debunda is an occaional poster on RM Web modelling southern Argentine railroads his layout is here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50863-chipauquil-20/,

 

He does some rather fine scratchbuilding including Baldwin andCockerill (Belgian) cab units.

 

Nick

[EddieB]

Ah, someone that knows something! Yeah I’ll probably move the thread to Overseas on Monday once I’ve “milked”  the crowd here.

 

I never actually made it to Buenos Aires though I have watched part of their fleet through binoculars from Montevideo, in the early eighties...

 

Personally I like the idea of ALCO RSD 16’s with Buffers and British style couplings.

 

See: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=481416&nseq=9&favsearch=1

 

Best, Pete.

 

Er yes, I once went to Buenos Aires Once - and here's a photo from there, a GM-EMD GA8W.

 

 

I also went Retiro, here's an RSD16 at the Mitre terminus, complete with "British" drawgear.

 

 

The Mitre terminus is the most imposing of the three, with a Victorian trainshed (and some preserved stock when I visited in 1992).  I bought some [fake] Raybans from a stall outside the entrance.

 

 

The Belgrano terminus is also quite interesting architecturally.  Don't be fooled into thinking that the Belgrano (metre gauge) line is of less importance.

 

 

While in Buenos Aires, one of the FIAT-built locomotives supplied via the GAIA consortium, at Retiro San Martin.

 

 

Finally, a couple of surviving cab units.  First a Baldwin "shark nose" at Bahia Blanca.  These used to operate in pairs, but this one was a single example (i.e. a loan shark?), rather hemmed in by other locos at the stabling point.   (The colour slides are in the bottom of a filing cabinet hemmed in by books and magazines, so you'll have to do with the black and Great White shot).  Baldwin supplied 51 such Co-CoDE locos (designation RF-615E) to FC General Roca in 1953-4.

 

 

Seen at Neuquen, here's the only example of the Cockerill locos I saw during my 1992 visit.  Unfortunately I couldn't get any nearer and even this photo was shot having climbed a precarious wire fence - and getting a few cuts for my trouble.  Cockerill supplied 50 such Co-CoDE locos to FC Gneral Roca in 1957 (or 1959, depending on which source you read).  The Belgian firm later supplied four-wheel diesel hydraulic shunters to Argentina.

 

[trisonic]

Brilliant, thanks!

 

Best, Pete.

[trisonic]

This must be Belgrano Retiro from track side:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=420423&nseq=1

 

And under the shed:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=420421&nseq=2

 

I’ve only found four photos of FCGB. I think I have to be more exacting in my search. Am I right in thinking that the metre gauge are all French, everything else was British?

 

Thanks, Pete.

[trisonic]

Ah, someone that knows something! Yeah I’ll probably move the thread to Overseas on Monday once I’ve “milked”  the crowd here.

 

I never actually made it to Buenos Aires though I have watched part of their fleet through binoculars from Montevideo, in the early eighties...

 

Personally I like the idea of ALCO RSD 16’s with Buffers and British style couplings.

 

See: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=481416&nseq=9&favsearch=1

 

Best, Pete.

I just had a closer look and is it me or do the buffers look hinged at the top? Also note two different styles of buffers on the ALCO RSD 16’s.

 

Best, Pete.

[EddieB]

This must be Belgrano Retiro from track side:

 

..

 

 

Am I right in thinking that the metre gauge are all French, everything else was British?

 

Yes, and much smarter it looks now from the delapidated stock running on weed-infested track as it appeared in 1992!

 

 

The simple answer is that there isn't any French connection, but there were numerous lines built to metre gauge which eventually were amalgamated into the FC Nacional General Belgrano (FCGB), and it would be a fairly complex study to examine the historical roots of these lines. 

 

The FCGB was formed in 1948 (when the railways of Argentina were effectively nationalised, but remained split into distinct systems!) from the metre-gauge systems of a number of companies.  The largest consitituent was the FC Central Norte, which operated with a number of different locomotive classes of British origin.  Don't forget that Malasian railways adopted metre gauge and there is extensive metre gauge in India (whence the gauge was adopted for East Africa) - all of which were under British influence.

[trisonic]

Regrettably, I picked up the French connection from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocarril_General_San_Mart%C3%ADn

This wasn’t the page but I cannot find it again! It mentions a little under “History”...

 

Best, Pete.

[Curlew]

There were French-owned railways in Argentina, like this broad gauge one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocarril_Rosario_y_Puerto_Belgrano

[EddieB]

Oh dear, there's a danger of writing something in a rush late at night and I rather over-stated the case in my previous post.  Some clarification is needed.

 

There were French interests in the railways of Argentina and their development, and before the railways were nationalised 58% were British controlled, 31% run by the Argentine state and 11% in French hands.

 

The original decision to adopt metre gauge was taken when the Government authorised an Italian contractor to build a line from Cordoba to Salta and Jujuy.  The line's first locomotive was supplied by Fox Walker (i.e. British) and the railway was worked by the contractor until taken over by the state in 1877, becoming the Argentine Central Northern Railway (FC Central Norte). 

 

The French interest in metre gauge development came about when Fives-Lille were invited to construct metre gauge lines in the Santa Fe area from 1888, under concession from the provincial government (which, as far as I can tell, had determined the gauge - but it isn't clear).  Other metre gauge railways, such as the first line in Patagonia (linking Puerto Madryn and Trelew, 1888), and the Central Cordoba Railway (1888 again, which constructed the metre gauge terminus in Retiro) were built by the British (the latter passing to the state shortly afterward).  So while there were French metre gauge lines (and broad gauge lines, as Curlew identifies) the adoption of metre gauge did not originate with the French nor was it extensively within the French domain.

 

In addition to the 5'6" and metre gauge, the FC General Urquiza incorporated standard gauge lines running North East from Buenos Aires Lacroze terminus, and the 750mm gauge is well known among steam enthusiasts as it includes the Esquel branch (the "Old Patagonian Express" of Paul Theroux, or "La Trochita" as it is known locally) and the Rio Turbio-Rio Gallegos line, built  in the far South as late as the 1950s to carry coal from the Chilean border to the coast.  The latter became famous for its advanced steam development under LD Porta, although steam operation finished after a downturn in traffic and the arrival second-hand Henschel diesels from Bulgaria.  At one time there was also significant 600mm gauge trackage and, for instance, the Buenos Aires Great Southern acquired a number of ex-War Department locomotives of this gauge.

[trisonic]

Great info Eddie, thanks.

 

You don’t happen to have a copy of the rail map of 1928 do you? Or a close year when the railways seemed to have been at their peak? Be great to have it in this thread.....

 

Thanks, again, Pete.

[EddieB]

There's a map - probably from an 1926 edition of The Railway Gazette - reproduced in D. Trevor Rowe's excellent "The Railways of South America" (which has been my primary reference for the previous post).  However there are so many lines that it tends to obscure the detail and not all the railways are shown.  I don't know whether there are better maps out there.

 

In my previous post I overlooked the 700mm gauge which, again according to Rowe, ran for some 200km.

[Curlew]

This site is fascinating

 

http://www.railwaysofthefarsouth.co.uk/

 

They advertise their new book on the home page - £50 or so, but well worth every penny in my opinion as a customer!