Class 305/1 car ends

[Penfold]

Hi,

 

First posting on RMWeb so apologies for any goofs.

Having come across the other Class 305 postings for scratchbuilding in N-gauge I have obtained a set of 3 Farish BR Mk1 Restaurant cars and begun converting them.

I have a set of etched cab fronts and side panels on order from Worsley.

I have cut up a Class 91 driving motor for the engine and after thinning the armature housing shoehorned it into the mk1 chassis.  Only the front bogie is driven but as it is going to be a 305/1 3 car set it doesn't have a lot of weight and actually runs quite well.  It operates smoothly in both directions. The incorrect bogie type is something I can't avoid.

I can't seem to find any photographs of the gaps between the cars and all the videos online concentrate on the driving ends.  The closest I have come is a picture in Colin Marsden's "Motive Power Recognition :2   EMUs" booklet where it seems to show over the Motor Brake that there is insufficient height at the pantograph end for any gangway to have been fitted.

 

So the questions are;

Do I remove the Mk1 gangway aperture and make them solid ends or were the gangways retained?   

If removing or leaving, which ones stay or go?  

 

Why 305/1?  Because I used to travel from Walthamstow Central to Liverpool Street and have a soft spot for the old slam door stock.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Penfold

 

 

[cheesysmith]

Just put a search into google of photo emu scrapyard. The first picture that comes up is of a 302 in a Cardiff scrapyard and shows the gangways the emus were fitted with and a photo of the pantograph end with the gangway. These units were not fitted with standard mk1 gangways, they were fitted with a flat top gangway that just fitted under the pantograph end.

[Andy Reichert]

I think have a drawing stored away that DC kits passed onto me. I'll try and find it. But I don't remember that there were any gangways in the 305/1's.

 

Andy

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Penfold

 

Check the diagrams on http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Diagram_Book_210_for_Issue.pdf

Pages ED205 and EF209 They do not show a gangway and the information on the reverse side states not fitted with gangways.

 

And are these helpful

 

 

[cheesysmith]

Or just look in the modern locomotive illustrated issue 183, the GE EMUs. It has a photo of a 308/1 in the scrapyard and no gangways. In the tech section it states the 305 were fitted with gangways when refurbished, which IIRC was one of the reasons Regi Rail replaced the 304 with them.

[Penfold]

Excellent.  

 

Many thanks for all the info. 

[Big D]

The 3-car 305/1's (large windows) were never fitted with gangways. The 4-car 305/2's (small windows) were fitted with gangways during refurbishment.

[Clive Mortimore]

The 3-car 305/1's (large windows) were never fitted with gangways. The 4-car 305/2's (small windows) were fitted with gangways during refurbishment.

Hi Big D

 

Thanks for helping clear this issue up.

[Penfold]

The 3-car 305/1's (large windows) were never fitted with gangways. The 4-car 305/2's (small windows) were fitted with gangways during refurbishment.

Ah. I just cut the gangways off and then saw the comment about 305/1 having big windows.   

I definitely used to ride the small window version with compartments and seating across the width so was this actually a 305/2 pre refurb?

[Clive Mortimore]

Ah. I just cut the gangways off and then saw the comment about 305/1 having big windows.   

I definitely used to ride the small window version with compartments and seating across the width so was this actually a 305/2 pre refurb?

Hi Penfold

 

305/2 had full width compartments in the DTS and TMBS before refurbishment. The DTS(L) and TC(L) had open saloons for the second class seating.

[Penfold]

Update on progress.   Etches arrived and they are brilliant - extermely happy with them.

 

I removed a portion of the donor carriage sides so that I can glue&glaze the apertures after painting. Takes ages but should be worth it. 

 

Lesson1 = apply the sides and then cut the front to shape to take the cab end. If you do it the other way around the flexing of the cab sides will break the cyano bond for the front.

Lesson2 = to keep the sides aligned when gluing down I made a cellotape hinge against the cantrail edge. Once happy with the position you can lift it up, apply cyano and lay it back on without the nervous shakes messing it up.

 

Two pics.

First is the cab ends and roof mods compared to my reference picture (Source material by Colin.J.Marsden, Motive power recognition:2 "EMUs" page 21.(Ian Allan) ISBN 0-7110-1569-4.)

Second is the Class91 power unit in the Mk1 chassis.

 

Next jobs are to fit out interiors, try to camouflage that motor bogie and fit new roof vents in the correct alignment.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Lovely looking bodywork.

 

Would it not be easier to motorise with one of the Japanese chassis?

 

And why motorise one of the driving trailers rather than the centre car?

[Penfold]

Lovely looking bodywork.

Thanks. The credit goes to Worsley for those etches

 

Would it not be easier to motorise with one of the Japanese chassis?

Possibly but I like to see what I'm working with and didn't want to have to order one and then send it back. Also the '91 gave me the bulk of the pantograph kit and the money I spent on a 2nd hand one went to the local MRC club shop. I consider it as my bit towards recycling 

 

And why motorise one of the driving trailers rather than the centre car?

Now that you mention it......doh!!!!     

I built the motor unit first as that would decide whether or not I carried on. I then got into the mindset of starting at the front of the train and working back so the motor went in the front car.  I might be able to swap them around so will look into this.  The critical bit is the length of the pantograph bed versus the rear of the motor chassis but I think there might be about 1/4" clearance so will give it a go.  It would help distract from the odd bogie being at the front.

[Penfold]

Hi,

Long time not type but I put the project on hold to redecorate the lounge then changed jobs etc...  so anyway, I dug this back out of the cupboard with a view to getting it sprayed before the damp weather comes back. If only the damn wind would die down.

 

What's happened since last time?

Well I've revisited the location of the motor and moved it away from the driving trailer to make the bogie less obvious.  

I've removed the couplers and fitted kato buckeyes using a hot track pin through them to locate them onto the bogie.  I have one 'long'  and one 'short' mid rake to prevent buffer lock but the driving ends have 'short'  fittings so that once the rubbing plate is fitted it should look ok and be functional if needed.

I've also fitted out the compartments using plasticard walls and balsa seats, which is a bit rough and ready but I'm only after a facsimile inside.

The dome vents from Etched Pixels are really nice and hopefully I've got them in the right place based on photos and a bit of educated guessing based on the seating layout.

So far it has had one flash coat of etch primer onto cleaned brass and then another flash of white car primer.    The roof is primed in Halfords zinc primer.

 

Next jobs are to start mixing up the Phoenix colours and glossing it out. I have decided on the blue/grey sides.  The interior will be hand painted and can wait for winter.

 

 

 

[Andy Reichert]

Hi,

 

First posting on RMWeb so apologies for any goofs.

Having come across the other Class 305 postings for scratchbuilding in N-gauge I have obtained a set of 3 Farish BR Mk1 Restaurant cars and begun converting them.

I have a set of etched cab fronts and side panels on order from Worsley.

I have cut up a Class 91 driving motor for the engine and after thinning the armature housing shoehorned it into the mk1 chassis.  Only the front bogie is driven but as it is going to be a 305/1 3 car set it doesn't have a lot of weight and actually runs quite well.  It operates smoothly in both directions. The incorrect bogie type is something I can't avoid.

I can't seem to find any photographs of the gaps between the cars and all the videos online concentrate on the driving ends.  The closest I have come is a picture in Colin Marsden's "Motive Power Recognition :2   EMUs" booklet where it seems to show over the Motor Brake that there is insufficient height at the pantograph end for any gangway to have been fitted.

 

So the questions are;

Do I remove the Mk1 gangway aperture and make them solid ends or were the gangways retained?   

If removing or leaving, which ones stay or go?  

 

Why 305/1?  Because I used to travel from Walthamstow Central to Liverpool Street and have a soft spot for the old slam door stock.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Penfold

 

I Used to ride the 305's (and the earlier Quint Arts) in from what was then Hoe St. The former were all large window stock, all open seating, 3 car units, up until at least 1970..

 

Andy

[Penfold]

Hi,

 

It's Easter weekend and raining so it must be a good time to catch up on some modelling items. 

I finally got a couple of warm, calm days in early autumn last year to airbrush the units.  Having not used one in over 35 years it took a while to get my hand back in. 

The white lining between the blue & grey could be better but that was done with a lining pen and I think I thinned the pain too much. Yet another new toy I have been learning to use and I must admit that my practice sessions didn't include lining over a joint created by masking tape between matt and gloss finishes.  I may have to resort to lining transfers to put some better definition into it.

They're far from perfect but we've all got to start somewhere.

 

Anyway, I had a play with some spare rub-down transfers from a friend to see what I could do for the logos and lettering but couldn't get enough pieces from various sets to bring it all together.  In the end I contacted a well known supplier of decals to see what could be done if I provided the detail. Anyone wanting to livery an N-gauge 305/2 in BR blue may soon find the job a little easier....  watch this space 

 

Now where have they hidden all those lovely choccie eggs  ?

 

 

Penfold

[Penfold]

OK folks.  Here's the latest now that the news has been made public by Fox.

 

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/class-305-2-emu-doncaster-four-car-units-from-1960

 

I am so glad I waited to get these made up as the quality is spot-on.  For anyone doing other BR blue stock in 2mm it includes the 'Driver',  'Guard' and 'Private'  lettering.

Now all I have to do is finish the new kitchen for She Who Must Be Obeyed and I can get back to this project.