sdw7300 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Help! I’m having real issues attempting to airbrush. I originally was given a Lidl compressor & airbrush kit which I never got to work properly. I since bought an AB-186 dual action airbrush. The problem I have is when pulling the trigger air not only comes out the end of the airbrush, but also bubbles (quite forcefully) back through the paint cup, spraying me in paint. I have tried thinning the paint right down but this doesn’t seem to help – the same happens when running IPA or water through to clean the airbrush. I have stripped the airbrush right down and soaked in IPA & separately hot water. I don’t think there is a blockage as I can see through the airbrush when taken apart and air flows through the airbrush. Could the problem be that the compressor is too powerful? It’s a Parkside Park 60 A1 (from Lidl). It says the power output is 15l/min at 0.16Mpa operating pressure / 0.35Mpa Max pressure. I was thinking of trying to attach a regulator. If I was going to spend £20 on a regulator, would I be better off putting the money towards a new compressor with a tank (and regulator included). The AS-186 seems good value (especially is bought in a kit where I’d get a spare airbrush) Any comments would be gratefully received! Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi, have you got regulated pressure on the line out of the compressor or is your air brush working directly on compressor output pressure ? Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaz Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 it would be strange the compressor/airbrush could not be turned down in some manner....did you get the manual? Sometimes the adjusting mechanism has a locking nut, which has to be undone then adjusted and then retightened before use. I would check the manual. Mine caught me out initially, if the gauge shows different powers then you would expect it to adjust this guy appears to have dew a review on your compressor.....he says it can be adjusted (PK0 not P60?) http://mysupertheoryofsupereverything.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/parkside-pko-270-a1-compressor-from-lidl/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi, have you got regulated pressure on the line out of the compressor or is your air brush working directly on compressor output pressure ? Craig. Hi Craig - Directly from compressor output at the moment. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 it would be strange the compressor/airbrush could not be turned down in some manner....did you get the manual? Sometimes the adjusting mechanism has a locking nut, which has to be undone then adjusted and then retightened before use. I would check the manual. Mine caught me out initially, if the gauge shows different powers then you would expect it to adjust this guy appears to have dew a review on your compressor.....he says it can be adjusted (PK0 not P60?) http://mysupertheoryofsupereverything.wordpress.com/2014/03/25/parkside-pko-270-a1-compressor-from-lidl/ Hi Jaz I don't remember seeing anywhere I could adjust the pressure but will have a better look tonight. The my Lidl compressor is alot smaller than the one in the link & doesn't have a gauge nor a tank. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi Craig - Directly from compressor output at the moment Hi Sam, there in lies the main problem, you need to regulate the air, buy yourself that regulator, get the type that is combined with a water trap, as you don't want any condensation bubbles getting in to your paint. buying the regulator and water trap won't be a loss cause, because if your present compressor doesn't do the job and you need one with a air tank, you will steed need the reg and trap. The only difference between your compressor you have and the tank fitted type, is if you are doing long durations of spraying you may end up with pulsing from the non tank fitted type. Hope this helps Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soony Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Unscrew the large black knob surrounded by a red ring - thats the pressure adjuster. Unscrew upwards till the pressure is 15-20psi on the gauge ( at the back in this pic....) Edit :- sorry , thats the compressor you were suggesting to get, a quick glance thru whilst preparing tea , didn't realise its a Lidl one you are using , not the AS186. My comment is irrelevant as its not applicable- the Lidl one doesn't have a regulator.. I have a Lidl one which I use for quick , say , backscenes work, but I automatically connect an inline regulator/drier without thinking about it, they are essential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Many thanks all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 You could get one of these - https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?osCsid=26b9a67ac07ec70eb1e83a98967992bc&cPath=14&products_id=20652 , its a quick release and bleed valve combi from the Airbrush company. The bleed valve allows you to fine tune your airflow at the airbrush and the quick change adapter means that your not teathered to the air hose. Getting air bubbling through the paint cup sounds like there is a build up of dry paint around the needle. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 You could get one of these - https://airbrushes.com/product_info.php?osCsid=26b9a67ac07ec70eb1e83a98967992bc&cPath=14&products_id=20652 , its a quick release and bleed valve combi from the Airbrush company. The bleed valve allows you to fine tune your airflow at the airbrush and the quick change adapter means that your not teathered to the air hose. Getting air bubbling through the paint cup sounds like there is a build up of dry paint around the needle. Jonathan I have to agree with Jonathan about the air bubbling in the cup...sounds like a blockage at the front of the brush. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The air bubbling has nothing to do with the compressor at all, so don't worry about that for the moment (although a regulator and water trap are essential). Air escaping through the paint cup is entirely an airbrush issue, but it could be a few things. You say you've stripped and cleaned the airbrush by soaking it, but have you had any cleaning brushes through it? A lump of cured paint won't always come off with just a soak, so try getting a cleaning brush through it (£2 on eBay for a set). What shape is the needle in? Is there a small bend in it? Is it worn? Place it on a flat surface such as a mirror and roll it, this will show if the needle is bent. Also look closely for any score marks along its front 3/4 length. Are all the seals ok? I'm assuming they are as you say the bubbling occurs only when you press the trigger, but still worth checking. Hopefully one of the above will solve your issues, but it's 100% an airbrush issue. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Jonathan, Gene & Mark. Thanks for your advice. I haven't got any cleaning brushes so I think a set of these along with regulator & water trap sounds like the way ahead. Needles looks OK so sounds like there must be a lump of paint somewhere. Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 By the way…what kind of paint have you used in this particular brush up until this problem started.??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hi Gene. Humbrol acrylics thinned with either Humbrol acrylic thinners or IPA. I've never really got it working successfully! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted October 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2014 I've had the same experience with acrylics with them drying in the airbrush. I noticed that acrylics seem to have a fairly thick consistency compared to some enamels I say a colleague draw from a tin. Does this suggest that acrylics need more thinning to prevent them from drying out? I have yet to try enamels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Sam.....ok....I would say that you have a blockage at the tip of the brush. Acrylic paints are notorious for causing that. I've not used Humbrol acrylics so can't comment specifically....but many acrylics are affected by ammonia....in North America we have a household ammonia based glass cleaner called Windex that I have found to be very useful in cleaning acrylic out of my airbrush. My suggestion would be to find something like that and dismantle the airbrush and submerge the parts in a tray of it overnight. Then using cotton-buds and pipe cleaners give the needle,nosszle and tips a thorough cleaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Ray, Sam......most acrylics need to be thinned to be used in most air-brushes. One can also buy a retarder that slows the drying time of acrylics which helps overcome the dreaded tip drying of acrylics in the brush. I would also suggest you try out, if available to you the paints by Vallejo called Vallejo Model Air It is specially formulated to be used in airbrushes without thinning. The other nice thing about it is it can be thinned, if really necassery, with ordinary ammonia-based household glass cleaners.....And the paint can be cleaned out of the air-brush with it also. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greengiant Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 If it bubbles, you either have a blockage or you have lost the sealing ring for the nozzle. I thin acrylics with Halfords screen wash, also slows the drying time of acrylic. Thinned enamels have a longer working life in an airbrush. Cellulose is good for cleaning acrylic from airbrushes, or badgers airbrush cleaner. As others have said, you need control of that air pressure. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryMeerkat Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Thinning acrylics won't change how quickly they dry, to do this you need to use a retarder along with the thinning medium. I always thin acrylics with de-ionised water, I've explained why in plenty of other threads so won't repeat it here. Most 'branded' acrylic thinners will contain a retarder, but you do pay a lot more so it's worth finding a good retarder and buying that and de-ionised water separately to mix yourself. This also allows you to alter the ratios to suit your own spraying needs and style. Plenty of information is available about acrylic retarders on here and on the web so it's worth doing a little research as its a subject worthy of thousands of words! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris g Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Only just seen this, so sorry if I'm too late. Normally, bubbles in the paint cup would mean that the there is some crud in the cap or nozzle or that they are not seated properly. Instead of going out through the cap / nozzle, the air is escaping into the paint cup. If you have cleaned the cap and nozzle and re-assembled the airbrush correctly and there is still a problem, this is where it gets a bit complex. Look at the the tip of the nozzle through some magnification, to make sure its not damaged, and if that's ok check the needle as has been said in other posts. In terms of the airbrush it states that 'this airbrush has internal rubber seals and is not suitable for use with Solvent Based Paints.' don't know exactly what this means, suggests acrylics are OK but does IPA for example constitue a solvent ? Perhaps it's worth asking the question or looking at any info you got with the airbrush, as the seals at the front end of the airbrush could be an issue. I don't know the compressor or exactly what the figures given mean in terms of performance but the range in PSI is 23 (.16mPa) to 50 (.35mPa), where the airbrush gives a range of 15 - 30 PSI, so the compressor without a regulator could be 'over running' the airbrush, which I guess could cause some air flow into the paint cup. For the moment, forget about paint and just use water to test your set up, and try the single action airbrush supplied with the compressor, water is less messy and cheaper until you find out what is going on. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks Chris. I bought a regulator and airbrush cleaning brushes but still no luck. The regulator seems to work, but so well it stalls the compressor. In terms of the airbrush, I don't think I've lost any washers / seals. I need to have another strip down and clean but to be honest I've got a bit disheartened by it. Thanks for posting. Will dig out the instructions and have another read. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted November 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2014 Sam, You don't mention what it is that you expect your airbrush and compressor to do (apart from work properly!). Will you be using them occasionally, frequently, for rolling stock, detailing work, scenery? Do you want a very fine spray pattern with lots of control over paint delivery, or just the ability to deliver a consistent amount of paint to respray a loco, for example? Are you able to take a photograph of the disassembled airbrush and post it on this forum for folks to have a look at? The compressor mentioned at the beginning of this thread is a good general purpose one, and I have been using one similar to this for over 3 years without any problems. It will work very well with a Neo for Iwata CN airbrush, which can be had for £55, and is good for detailing and general purpose airbrushing. I know this does not directly help you with your problem, but it may help you to get some airbrushing done without the frustration you appear to be suffering from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris g Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Sam, I'm sorry it's not going too well. My suggestion would be to get the compressor working and then look at the airbrush. In your original post you said you 'never got the airbrush kit to work properly'. Try getting it to spray water, (with a drop of ink), and adjust the paint flow and pressure to see how much control you can get. I've only used compressors with tanks, some I'm guessing a bit here. (From his post Mick may be able to give some better advice) I found the instructions for the Lidl compressor on-line, they say that there is a Coiled Hose adaptor (2a) which fits onto the Coiled Hose for use with the supplied 'spray stylus' as they call it. The Coiled Hose adaptor seems to have a 'bleed valve', (or hole), to vent the pressure when the compressor is running (and I guess the airbrush / spray sylus is closed). When you tried your new airbrush did you connect it via the Coiled Hose adaptor and Coiled Hose ? Similarly, when you say the regulator stalls the compressor was the regulator fitted before or after Coiled Hose adaptor ? (My assumption is that the compressor is reaching its max pressure and switching off). The compressor instructions say: "For optimal results, professionals connect an intermediate pressure reducer (not included with delivery). The pressure reducer can be usedto adjust the compressed air at the spray gun and optimise it to your needs." Unfortunately, it doesn't say how. You could try emailing the support contacts to see what they say This doesn't help you very much, my guess is that an inline regulator is needed, but it is just a guess and anyone who uses a 'tankless' compressor could advise where and how they fit a regulator, and if it needs to be an inline type. I can imagine that this is all a bit off putting when all you want to do is get on and do some painting, but blimey, if you get it going what a learning curve. Chris G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Chris & Mick Thank you both for your comments. I will have another fiddle with it soon and reply properly to your posts. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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