Pete 75C Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Apologies for this, I have trawled the net but have come up short without the answer. I'm looking to replicate a Class 33/1 and TC combination ideally using a Heljan Crompton and Hornby 4VEP... what exactly was the formation of the 3TC sets? I'm just a little too short on space (by about 5 or 6 inches) to run a 33/1 and 4TC so may have to go down the fictional road and use a little modeller's license... Thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2014 Driving Trailer Saloon Second Trailer Brake Second Driving Trailer Saloon Second As per an Ian Allan stock book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 This may help ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_438 Meld Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2014 And this should give you chapter and verse. http://www.bloodandcustard.com/bournemouth1966.html#ThreeTC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 The 3TC was "identical" to a 4TC but without the corridor first. Neither a 3TC nor a 4TC bear any resemblance to a 4-Vep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thanks to all. I should have Googled a bit harder! Much appreciated. With regard to resemblance, I'm just thinking cab end shape, not coach layout. That's where the modeller's license may have to come in... Thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thanks to all. I should have Googled a bit harder! Much appreciated. With regard to resemblance, I'm just thinking cab end shape, not coach layout. That's where the modeller's license may have to come in... Thanks, Pete. Using modeller's license, you could use 3 cars from the VEP. It's a shame the brake is also the motor coach. Never mind no one will notice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBill Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Back in the 1970s, wasn't there a regular service from Waterloo to Salisbury comprised of a 33 + 4-Vep, or am I imagining it?? I do recall 74 + 3TC + 2 x 4 TC and 73 + 3TC + 4-Vep on Summer Saturday extras to Bournemouth. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 6, 2014 Back in the 1970s, wasn't there a regular service from Waterloo to Salisbury comprised of a 33 + 4-Vep, or am I imagining it?? I do recall 74 + 3TC + 2 x 4 TC and 73 + 3TC + 4-Vep on Summer Saturday extras to Bournemouth. Bill IIRC more informed people than me have posted that this was the case, HOWEVER it was done to save a path out of Waterloo and the VEP was detached at Basingstoke and didn't go through to Salisbury. Note that although a VEP could in theory be hauled by a 33/1 or a 73, because all lighting and heating could only be supplied by the 3rd rail, using such a unit 'off the juice' wasn't possible in passenger service and is one of the reasons Southern region slam door EMUS found little favour as loco hauled tock on Heritage lines. The TC units didn't suffer from this restriction as all power for such auxiliaries was supplied from the REP units or the 33/1s / 73s /74s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 6, 2014 There's an excellent thread from Brian Kirby on a 4-TC build here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66342-sr-emus-starting-with-br-4tc-and-2hap/page-2 Using MJT and Southern Pride bits and Bachmann coaches. 4TC and 3TC were of course trailers, no need for the VEP. We used to get them infrequently on Cardiff-Portsmouth trains through Bristol complete with 33/1. Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Look carefully at this set from the early days of the stock. Numbered 422 but formed of only three carriages, the middle one of which is a BFK intended for a 4 Rep: D6529_422_KempTown_South-Eastern-Rambler_22-9-67 by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 If you are prepared to do a little modification, Bachmann or Hornby Mark 1 coaches with B4 bogies would give yo ua fair representation of the 3 (or 4) TC.The real TC Driving Trailers were simply converted from SO coaches by replacing the toilet compartments with drivers' cabs. You would need to create a new front end (perhaps use the MJT castings, or similar) and fill the toilet windows then open up new cab side windows.The BSK coach would need one window filled in for accuracy but would anyone really notice if you didn't do that?For a 4 TC, a Bachmann FK would be a straight drop-in.Seeing as the OP has already said he is prepared to use modeller's licence, Just converting the driving ends of the SO coaches would probably be sufficient to pass muster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thanks to all for your replies. On reflection, as Downendian and SRman have said, it would make more sense to modify some secondhand Mk1s than to butcher a perfectly serviceable VEP. Food for thought though. Many thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 In the 80s or early 90s I can remember a working on the Ashford to Hastings line. It was either a 33 or 73 and some EMU formation. Either a VEP or CEP. I'm sure Paul Wade can help out on this one. There was also a working out of Waterloo that was formed TC-VEP-33. The VEP and the 33 were powering the train. I remember seeing it at Clapham Junction. Just more food for thought. In fantasy land you could run MLV-2EPB-33. Not sure if the express and suburban gear ratios met the criteria. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 In the 80s or early 90s I can remember a working on the Ashford to Hastings line. It was either a 33 or 73 and some EMU formation. Either a VEP or CEP. I'm sure Paul Wade can help out on this one. There was also a working out of Waterloo that was formed TC-VEP-33. The VEP and the 33 were powering the train. I remember seeing it at Clapham Junction. Just more food for thought. In fantasy land you could run MLV-2EPB-33. Not sure if the express and suburban gear ratios met the criteria. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think you're all thinking of the 16:38 Waterloo - Yeovil / Southampton - see herehttp://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/6219-4cep-working-on-non-3rd-rail/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Gear ratios didn't really matter; the top speed of the train was limited by the lowest speed unit in the formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardnoodleblast Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 A 47 year old mystery solved (for me anyway!). In the summer of 1967 while 'spotting' on Hatfield Road Footbridge, Wimbledon, I was convinced that I saw a 3TC numbered 304. Yet, the Ian Allan Combined Volume listed only 301,302, and 303! For years afterwards I carried forward a hand-written entry in Combined Volumes of '304', dutifully underlined in red despite the howls of derision and accusations of delusion brought about by overdosing on Tizer. Today the burden is lifted and I have peace of mind brought about by reading the 'Blood & Custard' website entry on 3TC's! ( http://www.bloodandcustard.com/bournemouth1966.html#ThreeTC ) ! There was indeed a unit number 304 made up of spare vehicles for a very brief period from August to October 1967. Thank-you Blood & Custard! The mental angst is relieved ! I have a project in (ahem!) progress to build a 4-REP/4-TC/3-TC train based on Bachmann Mk1's for the TC stock and Replica shells and selected modified brass overlays for the REP using Genesis Kits emu cab front castings. The motor cars are each built on the Replica powered chassis. The 3-TC will now be finished as '304' to remind me to keep the faith and believe my own eyes! In 1985/6 with business taking me to Dorset on frequent occasions, I did call by Seaton Junction one late afternoon to have a look around. There I saw a westbound train comprised of two blue/grey 4-TC units and a Class 33 at the head. I wondered if anyone could enlighten me on this working? Was it a regular one and if it was, was the 'up' working practice to have the 33 propelling from Exeter St. Davids to Waterloo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted October 13, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2014 I've just seen a RTR 4-TC produced by Britannia Pacific models. http://www.britanniapacific.co.uk/4tc.htm Looks rather good, but no details on how it was produced - Southern pride etches plus MJT ends? Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 14, 2014 Gear ratios didn't really matter; the top speed of the train was limited by the lowest speed unit in the formation. Roy, as I'm sure you know - the standard instruction when mixing main line and suburban EMUs in a formation was "at least 50% main line" to avoid overheating the main-line traction motors. Ernie's MLV-EPB combo does that perfectly well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.