How was artillery moved by railway?

[Tin Turtle]

I'm trying to find photos, ideally from WW1 and in the UK, of artillery being moved on standard gauge railways. So far I've managed to find none. Does anyone have any I could see please, for a couple of projects I'm working on? Glad to accept photos of artillery on the continent too. If anyone has any information regarding how it was moved ie on what particular type of wagon, how it was strapped down etc that would also be very useful. Thanks!

[62613]

I would imagine the guns and limbers on low dropside wagons, the horses in horseboxes or cattle wagons, and the personnel in coaching stock. In France, there were the well - known 40 hommes 8 chevaux wagons.

['CHARD]

Personnel were in coaching stock, frequently in dangerous conditions, and operated at inappropriate timings.

 

A read of the report into Britain's worst railway tragedy will shed plenty of light onto the philosophy surrounding troop movements:

 

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=85

[skipepsi]

This is only from a fading memory but if you google Royal Horse Artillery there was a picture of them travelling by rail.in about 1904

[Boris]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2014/aug/Exhibition-showcasing-vital-role-of-Britains-railways-in-WW1/

 

This looks like a naval gun rather than an arty piece though.  Don't forget that with an army intended to be mobile (British tactical doctrine at the time) artillery would also have to be mobile, or at least relatively easy to move using the technology available at the time.  Leaving aside obvious things like light guns designed to support cavalry, landships and man portable stuff like trench mortars, gun limbers were generally no wider than horse drawn or road vehicles of the time. 

 

Logically they had to be or else how would they be transported all over the Empire.  The basic answer is that in the UK artillery pieces would be transported on whatever suitable vehicles were available given the constraints of loading gauge, weight etc.  Realistically speaking as long as you secure the items on your train in a prototypical manner you can pretty much get away with anything.

 

[Nick Holliday]

I'm rather surprised you haven't found any photos, because I am sure I have seen lots. Unfortunately I can't locate many at the moment as they are generally scattered through pictorial albums. I have found several in the Lightmoor book on the Longmoor Military Railway. They made use of Rectanks, with the guns securely chained down. Unloading was straightforward using the side loading banks.

There is also a picture in Southern Wagons Pictorial showing an artillery set being loaded onto a SECR road vehicle truck at Lydd. Because of the sides to the wagon they have had to use a crane to load the kit.

[Shadow]

a couple of pictures here of German artillery

[Shadow]

interesting quote from the same page

 

To move one German army corps -  (or just 2.5% of the German Army) 
it took this many railway cars :

Officers 170 cars
Infantry 965 cars
Cavalry 2960 cars
Artillery 1915 cars
... in 140 trains

 

Average train length 42 cars.

 

And it took the same number of cars 
- about 6000 -
to transport all of their supplies.

 

edit for spelling/formatting

[Ken Anderson]

If you can visit the Firepower Museum in Woolwich and speak to one of the Currators.

http://firepower.org.uk

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Tin Turtle

 

The men would travel in coaches, officers in first class. The officer’s mounts in horse boxes, with grooms. The other horses in cattle wagons. A Royal Horse Artillery battery would need more cattle wagons as the gun crews were also mounted. Guns and limbers would be roped to a open carriage truck, a low (1 plank wagon), or a medium wagon with dropsides or hymac or lowmac. There were four limbers to every two guns, in action these would replenish the guns with more ammunition. They might even be in 5 plank wagons if both the originating station and the destination had suitable cranes. Medium and heavy guns  of the Royal Garrison Artillery would be carried on wagons like bogie bolsters etc. Rectanks and warflats were used later on. Most heavy batteries had traction engines to move the guns around and these would be transported on lowmacs. All batteries and brigades had wagons for signal equipment and stores, these would be carried on the same wagons as the guns.

 

I am not too sure how easy it is to get manuals on the 18pdr and 13pdr guns or 4.5 inch howitzer but these would contain details of how the guns should be roped when on a railway wagon. The gun manuals we had when I was attached to the RA in the 1970s contained instructions for rail portee of the guns.

 

Sorry no photos, I have had a look on Landships http://www.landships.info/landships/index.html but no luck. Even their forum only came up with this article. http://www.landships.net/t58918482/moving-british-artillery-by-rail/

[Fat Controller]

There is at least one photo of guns on rail wagons in 'Freight Wagons of the GWR and British Railways, Western Region- their loads and loading'

[Clive Mortimore]

There is at least one photo of guns on rail wagons in 'Freight Wagons of the GWR and British Railways, Western Region- their loads and loading'

Hi Brian

 

It is the same photo, or one taken at the same time as the photo on the Landships forum. 6 inch guns on Macaw bogie blosters. Thing is the guns are elevated as if in battery, not travelling position. More darmatic for the photo.

[Pacific231G]

I'm trying to find photos, ideally from WW1 and in the UK, of artillery being moved on standard gauge railways. So far I've managed to find none. Does anyone have any I could see please, for a couple of projects I'm working on? Glad to accept photos of artillery on the continent too. If anyone has any information regarding how it was moved ie on what particular type of wagon, how it was strapped down etc that would also be very useful. Thanks!

I have a copy of the 1927 French Regles Militaires relatives a l'Execution des Transports and this includes a very large number of detailed loading diagrams for everything from artillery of various calibers to the seating arrangements for the hommes 40. From the appearance of the troops in the diagrams on loading and unloading procedures, most of these date from  the First World War and before and the assumption seems to be that most transport away from rail would be "hippomobile" i.e. horsedrawn. French loading gauge was slightly wider than ours but I doubt if the loading patterns would have been that different. Diagrams show the chocks for wheeled items but not the ropes strapping them down. There are far too many diagrams for a mass scan but if there are specific items you'd like info. on do let me know.