Should I change couplings?

[ColinK]

Hi, I would appreciate any advice and comments on changing from tension-lock to Kadee couplings.

 

I have a terminus to fiddle yard OO layout which I occasional exhibit. When I do, I make it clear that it is a layout anyone can build, so using the big hand from the sky to uncouple is OK.

 

However, while the tension lock couplers do work OK, it is very easy to derail stock or even knock a train over while using the uncoupling hook.

 

I have some experience of using Kadee's on my 7mm ng layout, but they are not perfect as I did not leave enough space for uncoupling magnets, plus the stock gets knocked around a bit as it does not have any stock boxes for protection.

 

So I am considering converting my OO stock to Kadees; while some uncoupling will be possible with magnets, I can't retro fit magnets everywhere they are needed, so some use of the kadee uncoupling pole will be necessary. Most, but not all of my OO stock has NEM pockets which I hope will help.

 

I'm attending the Wakefield show on Saturday and hopefully could get a few packets of NEM Kadees to try out without spending too much.

 

I've also got twice the amount of stock I need, so one option would be to initially convert half the stock to Kadees and see how I get on.

 

Any thoughts and advice appreciated.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Remember to buy the height gauge as well.

 

I find the NEM #17 and 18 are right for most vehicles on my 24" minimum radius for SWB / 30" minimum radius for all other vehicles operation.

 

If you have any Bachmann vehicles with the NEM pocket mounted overheight (sign peculiar is the 'cranked' version of their tension lock) my favoured bodge is to take a #5, reduce the width of and rough up the pivot end, then force it into the NEM pocket which has been lightly reshaped internally to match with a modified and heated screwdriver bit. Get in quickly with the plastic stilll soft, and it stays put. Going in horizontal, it is bang on gauge height, one of those happy coincidences!

 

Go electromagnet uncoupler if possible, the steel axles of much UK stock are an inconvenience on the permanent magnet type. Steel tyres, even more of a problem!

[LNER4479]

I'm a Kadee user for uncoupling. Whilst I do like the system and it generally works reliably (including the delayed action feature where you can position stock where you want to after uncoupling), I would advocate only fitting the couplings on the vehicles you actually want to uncouple. In the other words, no need to fit to any intermediate vehicles in a rake. Reason being that you can get spurious uncouplings as a rake of vehicles passes over a fixed magnet (another reason why the electromagnetic versions are better). How do I know this...?(!)

 

Agreed that NEM pocket fitted vehicles and the clip-in couplings are a real boon.

[RedgateModels]

What about the Brian Kirby method for your existing tension locks?

 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35605

 

you will need to use Bachmann couplings but if all your stock has NEM pockets then that's easy

[roundhouse]

When I retro fitted the stock for Appledore, I fitted small magnets obtained from Squires in between the tracks aftercutting out a few of the sleepers. I then covered in fine ballast or used them where walkways across the track are. The magnets are about half to a third the length of the Kadee magnets and are square cross section so that a few of them can be orientated so that the magnetic field is the correct way to work them. The shorter lengtht does need more precision when stoppping wagons etc over them but does very much reduce the magnetic pull on steel axles.

 

I cant remember the actual size of the mangets or if Squires still do them but there must be other sources for such magnets.

[Norm81]

If you're extremely patient at some point I'll be fitting a fixed and electromagnet uncoupler to my test plank I'm building to trial kadees before converting my stock.

 

I think I'll NEM pocket everything, so the stock can be swapped back to tension lock.

[Richard Lee]

I am in the process of converting my stuff from tension locks to Kadees.  Because most of my stuff has NEM pockets I am using a mix of the NEM pocket versions (numbers 17, 18, 19 and 20).

 

I was going to just change a couple of trains that are going to get their own small layout, but I decided that I liked them more that I expected.

 

So far, I have a few random thoughts:

 

1. It is difficult to be sure which Kadee number to use before fitting and testing with other stock over curves and points.  Some are more useful than others, but you need a mixture.  Be prepared to have a go with one that you think looks okay, but change it when it gives trouble.
2. Two vehicles with couplings that are slightly close may give trouble together, whereas they may work satisfactorily with other stock.  (Trouble being buffer-lock derailment, unexpected uncoupling on curves, or difficulty coupling without the 'hand-of-god'.)  Sometimes it is possible to change to a shorter one than you first thought.
3. Bachmann NEM pockets seem to be a bit deep, and sometimes the Kadees need wedging with thin card, or attached to the top of the pocket with a small amount of glue to line them up with the height gauge.
4. Stock without NEM pockets (such as Hornby Terriers and wagons) are more likely to be troublesome, and give less satisfactory results.  Fortunately, I had already decided to avoid acquiring more Hornby wagons if suitable Bachmann or Dapol ones are available.
5. Assuming that your layout includes points, the magnetic wire trip-pin that hangs down either needs to be adjusted (some people recommend the tool from Kadee) or, if magnetic uncoupling is not required, snipped off.
6. Uncoupling by hand is a different skill to uncoupling tension locks, although not necessarily more difficult.  It may take a little practice to become as able uncoupling Kadees by hand as you are with tension locks.  For Kadees I have been using an (unused) tooth-pick.
7. I concur with the statement by 34theletterbetweenBandD that you need to get a height gauge.

Any list of what goes in what stock is going to be a bit subjective.  You can get stock in a bit tighter if you don't have tight curves or small radius points.  I have gone for a minimum radius of about 30".  Still got more checking by running and shunting to do, but so far, for Hornby M7s and Maunsell coaches, 18s seem okay for me.  Bachmann or Dapol wagons are usually 17 or 18.  Because my Hornby wagons don't have NEM pockets, I have had to do various bodges that have used 18s and 20s.  The Smallbrook Studio kits have used 17s, 18s, 19s and 20s.

[ColinK]

Many thanks to you all for your really helpful posts. I'll be looking closely at couplings on the layouts at Wakefield.

[BR60103]

It seems to be possible to use small round magnets for uncoupling. 2 holes drilled just inside the rail, between sleepers, seem to work. You should be able to find a supplier of 1/4" cylindrical high-power magnets. (I know where in Canada).

 

I'm still experimenting.

[ColinK]

Hi, I had a chat with several layout operators at the Wakefield show about the different types of couplings. I managed to buy a selection of NEM pocket kadees along with a magnetic uncoupler and uncoupling pole (I've already got the height gauge). All I didn't find were some small magnets. I'll try them out over the next few weeks and see how I get on with them.

 

I've Train Tech lights on my buffer stops, I might need to move these back. At the show I saw a loco parked hard against against a buffer stop and the kadee knuckle had coupled up to the vertical part of the buffer stop light.

 

I like the Brian Kirby method too, especially as the stock can still be used both ways round. Might try that on my ng layout.

[Ben Alder]

Here's what you want -http://www.first4magnets.com/neodymium-magnets-t137#:page5- Some of the 3 or 4mm diameter ones will be fine.

[Chris-GNR]

Hello

 

If your ok with 'the big hand from the sky' why not make the move into three links. They look the best, perform well & are easy to install.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers.

Chris

[hartleymartin]

You xan always vend steel staples and attach them to the Bachmann small tension lock couplings. Infruiatingly, I only discovered this after I had gone through the expense of converting to kadees.

 

Quite a few tensuon lock couplers are easy to replace. If they are mounted with a screw you jusr cut the tails off the NEM kadee coupler and drill a 2mm hole in the remaining part. You may need to bend the trip pin slightly upwards to make sure that it doesn't catch on anything if it droops slightly.

[ColinK]

Just sat down to try fitting some Kadees, realised my height gauge is stored with my narrow gauge layout at a relative's house miles away!

[ColinK]

Hi, a quick update. I've spent some time today trying various Kadees, some success and some problems. I've posted more on a new thread 'which kadee'. I'm happy to have my posts moved back here if that is more appropriate.

[ColinK]

Hi, I thought i should let everyone know how I've got on.

 

I've sucessfully converted the majority of my OO stock from tension locks to Kadees and placed some above the track magnets. Everything so far is working fine. Much easier than I expected, although i've not attempted to convert the few non NEM pocket vehicles I have. The majority of my stock has required #19 or #20 couplers, with a few taking #17 or #18. The real test will come when I exhibhit my layout at the Chapel-en-le-Frith show in February.

 

The problems I have not solved are below, comments appreciated.

 

I have two Bachmann Mk1 coaches where the couplings are not at the right height. They do just about work, but I suspect they would not work if I had any gradients. Is there a simple solution, or should I just sell them and replace them? Do the current Mk1s have the pockets at the right height?

 

I cannot fit Kadees to couple my Mk1 or Mk2 coaches together as the gangways touch before the couplings meet. So for now I have just put Kadees on the ends of the rakes and left the tension locks between the coaches. This has turned to my advantage as this has meant I can have magnets at the platform ends to uncouple locos, and when the coaches are pushed back in for departure, the Kadee magnet does not uncouple the last coach.

 

I've a Bachmann class 24 which does not have NEM pockets, but has long tension locks screwed to the bogie. I do want to keep this, but don't know how to convert this to Kadee. Any advice appreciated?

 

I've also a Hornby class 50 which is currently away having the sound improved by Charlie, this has the same problem with the couplings. And advice on how to fit Kadees to it also appreciated.

 

Cheers.

[roundhouse]

I drill and screw NEM Kadee coupler to the underside of the NEM boxes where the box is at the incorrect height. then add a drop of superglue to hold it in place and to stop it turning

 

Not the best photo but hopefully explains it.

[ColinK]

Thanks Roundhouse, especially for the picture which is really helpful.

[Pacific231G]

Hi, I thought i should let everyone know how I've got on.

 

I've sucessfully converted the majority of my OO stock from tension locks to Kadees and placed some above the track magnets. Everything so far is working fine. Much easier than I expected, although i've not attempted to convert the few non NEM pocket vehicles I have. The majority of my stock has required #19 or #20 couplers, with a few taking #17 or #18. The real test will come when I exhibhit my layout at the Chapel-en-le-Frith show in February.

 

The problems I have not solved are below, comments appreciated.

 

I've a Bachmann class 24 which does not have NEM pockets, but has long tension locks screwed to the bogie. I do want to keep this, but don't know how to convert this to Kadee. Any advice appreciated?

 

I have two Bachmann Mk1 coaches where the couplings are not at the right height. They do just about work, but I suspect they would not work if I had any gradients. Is there a simple solution, or should I just sell them and replace them? Do the current Mk1s have the pockets at the right height?

 

I cannot fit Kadees to couple my Mk1 or Mk2 coaches together as the gangways touch before the couplings meet. So for now I have just put Kadees on the ends of the rakes and left the tension locks between the coaches. This has turned to my advantage as this has meant I can have magnets at the platform ends to uncouple locos, and when the coaches are pushed back in for departure, the Kadee magnet does not uncouple the last coach.

 

 

Hi Colin

I'm glad to hear that your efforts have met with success.

Where you don't want stock within rakes to uncouple you could always use Kadees with the pin removed. That is sort of prototypical (the height isn't) for most BR coaches but it also keeps the other big advantage of Kadees that you can simply lift vehicles out of a rake in the fiddle yard etc.

 

Since I hate NEM hinged loop couplers even more than tension locks I've used Kadees on my French H0 layout for some time. They're not perfect, you need to avoid curves near the magnets and you do need locos with smooth slow running to take advantage of the advanced uncoupling feature without the vehicles recoupling. Kadees are also more sensitive to height variations than other types so I've often had to use paper or thin card shims in the NEM boxes of even quite modern vehicles fitted with them.

 

If you use Kadees the height gauge is a must have for setting magnet as well as coupler and trip pin heights. I'd also strongly recommend the Kadee pin pliars for adjusting the height of trip pins. 

 

I'm not familiar with the Bachman class 24 but if the tension locks are screwed to the bogie you might be able to glue (or solder if you can get a metal one) an NEM box to a tongue of brass or something drilled for the original screw and bent to set the box at the right height. 

You'll find the relevant dimensions here.

http://www.morop.eu/fr/normes/nem362_f.pdf

It's in French but the diagram and dimensions (use those for H0) are clear and the Double O Gauge Association also has an explanation here

http://www.doubleogauge.com/standards/couplings.htm

 

This was a huge problem with pre NEM box  Jouef and Hornby Acho models of French stock where the coupler shank was screwed to the body until a small manufacturer (YDModels) started producing NEM boxes with an extended tongue and fitting to replace the original couplings. Given that some of these models have become collectables this had the advantage that you could easily unscrew the NEM box and refit the original coupling. I don't know whether there's enough commonality in British pre NEM box stock from the main manufactureers to make something like that feasible here.

[roundhouse]

Another trick that I use where Kadees are a bit loose in NEM boxes (especially when thy droop) is to use a bit of canopy glue and turn the vehcile up side down to set or to leave on the track and slide the flat height gauge plate under the coupler trip pin.

 

canopy glue can be removed much easierthan superglue if need be.