David41283 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Hi everyone, I haven't set up a workbench thread before - I've previously included my projects in my layout thread (Exchange Square - link in the signature). But having three potentially interesting ones on the go, and with the layout more-or-less finished I have started this thread. The first project is an N Gauge 2-car 165 converted from a Farish 170. I had been meaning to have a go at something like this for a while, but two things have coincided to get me started: 1. I acquired a bargain Farish 170, in the old Midland Mainline livery on eBay for around £40. 2. I stumbled across the new Greater Western franchise livery - the same principle as Scotrail - the DfT stipulates the franchise name - GWR - and the livery - chocolate brown - and the franchisee simply adds a small tag line "a First Group Company". The thread which inspired this is here. I asked Adam at Electra Graphics to design me a "what if" livery for a local lines train, based upon the future franchise info - this unit is purely speculation, but it will be in modern GWR chocolate and cream! I apologise now, but I am going to make two or three postings in one go to avoid one single huge post with my progress so far! Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 OK - actual modelling, or at this stage, actual destroying of models. I have got three main components ready now - a pair of 3d printed 165 cabs from Bob Davies' (N-train) Shapeways shop, the Farish 170 and Adam's vinyls. I have had really mixed results with paint stripping in the past, and I have tried Brasso, Dettol and Nail Polish Remover - I have had great successes with all three, and disasters with all three. (tbh one of the better results I have had recently on an old Farish Mk2 was simply a fibreglass pencil and warm water.) I went for Nail Polish Remover this time, as I have been put off Brasso by my last experience, which resulted in slightly orange, strangely shaped, brittle coaches! At first it appeared to work beautifully with most of the paint simply falling away - however the thicker paint on the roof and the cream sole-bar turned sticky and lumpy. Even more oddly, there has clearly been some sort of chemical reaction as the previously grey/brown transparent body has ended up an opaque milky grey! However it has retained it's structural integrity and there is no warping or softening. The first major task has been to sort out the roof, the 165 has a pretty much flush roof, with none of the large plant on the 170 - this is useful as it means that I have simply been able to file/sand smooth the roof and deal with the lumpy paint. I am not planning to use the roof vinyls supplied by Electra - but helpfully they do indicate the position of the vents, which I was struggling to ascertain from photos. (no-one seems to post photos of the roof of units on t'internet!) After cleaning up the 3d printed cabs, I used the vinyls as a template to work out the position of the cut to remove the cab, so that I could use the moulded cab door on the 3d print. Here is the marked up unit ready for surgery. Although the Electra Vinyls include the cab front I am planning to paint the "actual" front of the unit, instead of covering it with the vinyl. Here is where I have reached tonight, after 4 evenings work. The cabs have been glued in place with thick Cyano glue - the thicker glue gives a vital few seconds longer setting time, which allowed for adjustments. The only real issue between the 3d printed cabs and the Farish body is the top corners of the roofline, which are much too square. Tomorrow, once the superglue has set I will add filler, and when cured start filing to match the profiles. This pic shows the sticky-out corners which will need to be rounded off. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 Last post for tonight: Once I have finished the body work the plan is: When I have achieved a nice smooth roof profile, use the vinyls to mark the position of the vents, which will be made from plastic strip. Airbrush the roof white - even on the FGW purple turbos they are white/very pale grey and the GWR 150 DMU used to have a white roof in the 1980's! Fit glazing (maybe using the vinyl front destination blinds) + fit TPM Wipac clusters to the front. Airbrush the front WP Yellow with black around the windows. Tackle the windows (as they have lost their opacity) by spraying Tamiya Smoke Window Tint with a coat of Klear to give the impression of tinted glass once the vinyls are added. Fit the Electra sides and finish with Matt Varnish. Here are the graphics which Adam has designed and produced for me: Cheers for now. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 After letting the CA superglue dry overnight, next day I added lots of filler around the cabs and then let that dry for 24 hours. I used Squadron White Putty, which seems to work ok. This evening, I have sanded down the join between the new cabs and the body - there was quite a sizeable profile difference to correct around the roofline. The 165 cabs were much "squarer" than the 170 body. With this being my first impression of 3d printed materials, I am very impressed with the workability of the FUD. It is tough enough not to be ruined if your file slips, but seems to take a needle file, emery board or even a fibreglass pen really well. Here is the end of this evenings successful, albeit rather dull, session of filing, sanding and smoothing. There is now a nice smooth join and a uniform roof profile. I think it really does have a look and feel of the prototype shape at this stage - particularly in the second picture. At this stage it struck me that this would be a better way to make a 325 postal emu, as then I wouldn't have the problem of sorting the windows! Sadly my layout can only handle 2 coaches. I am now waiting for a suitable window when I am home early enough from work for it not to be dark, in order to get into the garden to give it waft of primer. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adam1701D Posted December 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2014 Hi David - looking good, Glad you like the vinyls. I've found the 170 shells to strip down really well using Brasso wadding, with no ill effect. The different plastics used by Farish and Bachmann over the vears have made the whole thing a bit of a minefield but, as a rule, all China-build coaches will strip with Brasso, apart from the very first releases (Northern / Wessex 158, GNER / MML Teal HST). You may be still be able to get the shells cleared up using Brasso - might be worth an experimental go Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hi Adam, Thanks - the vinyls are great, as ever. I think the whole grey area between old and new Farish has thrown me this time. I sort of know the rule; old = nail varnish remover; new = brasso. However I was aware that the 170 was one of the very first "new" Farish models and that the original Midland Mainline livery was one of the earliest - hence why I went with the nail varnish remover. This is the first time I've seen this reaction - the clear plastic turning opaque and milky. I think the lesser evil is incorrect use of nail varnish remover as the catastrophes when Brasso has gone wrong are far more spectacular. I've now got a lot of filler and paint on the shells, so I'm going to persevere. I reckon I can create a good window effect with smoke tint and gloss varnish. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 This evening, I have sanded down the join between the new cabs and the body - there was quite a sizeable profile difference to correct around the roofline. The 165 cabs were much "squarer" than the 170 body. Could it be that the cab ends are actually Cl.325 cabs? These were a combination of the front of the new Networkers mated up to the squarer profile of the previous Mk.3 based units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Could it be that the cab ends are actually Cl.325 cabs? These were a combination of the front of the new Networkers mated up to the squarer profile of the previous Mk.3 based units. Hi Bernard, they are on Shapeways as 165 cabs, but they do look very 325ish! I'm reserving judgement until I've got them glazed and painted to see what they really look like. I'm hoping some of your Wipac light etches fit into the holes as I've got a few spare. Like many things I'm finding in n scale the cabs are a bit of a "scratchbuilding aid" and less of a complete kit. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted December 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2014 They look more 325-ish to me as well. Have you seen the complete 165/166 shells on Shapeways? Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Actually now you've amended the profile they're fine as 165 cabs. The whole window and light area was the same. In real life it was a case of a little bit of smoke and mirrors to update the Mk.3 EMU shell! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 They look more 325-ish to me as well. Have you seen the complete 165/166 shells on Shapeways? Cheers, Mike Hi Mike, Yes I have, but the key difference is price. These cost me less than £20 including postage. The complete 165 Shapeways kit costs well over £100. Not an amount I'm willing to risk on a step into the unknown! If this goes well, I'll definitely look at more 3d prints in future - there are some interesting wagons on the site. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 Progress has slowed a little, simply down to the 24 hour intervals between applications of primer - then sanding down, filler - then sanding down etc.. I have added the roof details - 5 lozenge shaped ventilators, made from plastic strip, filed to a rounded-oblong and fixed in place. The locations were gleaned from photos (although there are a hell of a lot of differences between overhauls, TOC's etc..) and the roof vinyls in the Electra kit. After letting them fully dry in place I have then filed them down further to lower the profile and round them off a bit more. I've also added a tiny stubby aerial above the cab and the other round thing on the roof from photos, using a sliver of round sprue. Looking at the profile of the cabs, one of the main deficiencies is the front skirt, the 3d printed efforts don't really have anything like the prototype at all. I have added a much deeper skirt, which looks the right depth and shape. This was slowly built up from a strip of plastic, bent to shape around the handle of my knife, then fixed with Poly Cement. Once dry this was smothered in filler, and it has now been sanded to the shape below. It's not perfect, but it does look a lot better than before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Hi everyone, After finally deciding I was satisfied with the finish I gave the coaches a final coat of Halfords White Primer, then I've started painting. I've read advice to use acrylics only on FUD, so this model is only going to use acrylic paint. A bit of experimentation has lead me to the conclusion that Games Workshop Paints clog up your airbrush, but Humbrol and Railmatch Acrylics less so. First was a good coat of Humbrol Acrylic Yellow around the cabs. As I am using vinyl overlays for the sides, I've sprayed a band of Railmatch GWR Brown around the drivers door as I will trim the vinyls back. The awkward round front-end design of the turbo was carefully masked with Tamiya masking tape. I need to do a bit of touching up, but overall I am happy with where I've got to. Painting the window surrounds black is going to be a fiddly job - then I've got to glaze the windows and come up with a way of adding the destination blind. I need to get the inner ends painted and the white roof done before I can sort out the window areas and apply the vinyls. Applying the white roof will tidy up the roof line at the front, above the yellow. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 A bit more progress. I've painted some of the areas which won't be covered by the vinyl overlays with weathered black. After much careful masking, I've painted the windscreen surrounds black. They need a little more touching in, but I think this makes the unit look a lot more like the real thing from the front. They look a lot more wobbly than they are, as I didn't worry too much about painting a straight line on the inside edge where they will be covered by the glazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Moving slightly into the unknown, I have started to try and sort out the window issues. Originally the Farish 170 shell is translucent plastic, which would have been ideal to apply the vinyls over to give the impression of windows. However when I used Nail Polish Remover to strip the shells it turned an opaque milky grey. The whole shell has had an undercoat of Halfords white primer, so I needed to create a new background for the clear vinyl windows. Last night I masked off the area behind the windows and sprayed the unit with Tamiya "smoke" grey which I have seen recommended for tinting windows. It gives a tinted translucent sheen, and this morning, having removed the masking tape I am quite satisfied with the results. There are a few minor impoerfections, but I reckon this will work behind the vinyl overlays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Clever idea. It will be interesting to see the result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Finally getting somewhere! Occasionally a single step will make you feel like it's all coming together a bit more! I have been dreading tackling the glazing of the front of the units, but I am pleased with my evenings work, while x-factor was on the telly in the other room! I started by cutting out a 6mm x 8mm rectangle of clear plastic (saved from an old 00 house kit). Then I cut out the window section from the Electra Vinyl and fixed that to the clear plastic piece, which was then trimmed to fit. They are a snug resistance fit, but I have given them a generous coat of varnish to secure them in place. I may need to follow up with a little bit of "glue'n'glaze" and black paint to tidy up the edges, but the gaps in the extreme close-up pics are fractions of mm. Using the vinyls has meant that I have windscreen wipers, destination blinds and the new GWR logo and unit number too. I have also used the WIPACs from the Vinyls - albeit trimmed to fit the aperture on the 3d printed cab. The etched ones I had were too big (although I would bet that they are the right size and the hole is under-sized). Please excuse the shininess of the still-wet varnish in these pictures. I will do a little bit of tidying up tomorrow when all is dry. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Hi everyone, One car has been "vinyl-ed". Clearly a lot of touching up to go, and the light in which this photo was taken isn't great, but here it is.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Road Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 That is coming along nicely! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adam1701D Posted December 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2014 Looking really good, David. It's great to see the finished result of the GWR Graphics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Happy New Year everyone, I guess this little project is nearing it's conclusion, after a break from modelling due to guests staying for most of the last fortnight, I picked this up again today. I have touched up some of the paint which needed doing, picked out the footsteps in yellow and the aerial in black. I have used a tiny bit of superglue on a cocktail stick to stick down a couple of the edges of the vinyls which weren't lying flat. Finally it has had a coat of Games Workshop acrylic varnish from an aerosol can. Here it is on it's chassis. There are a couple of issues which, as this is a bit of fun and a "what if", I am going to live with: There is a slight colour mis-match between the railmatch GWR brown and the vinyl overlays. The motorised chassis doesn't quite fit where I'd like it to. The chassis sits further forward inside the 170 cab, and can't do so in the 3d printed cab so the bogies on one car are a bit further back than they should be. I will hopefully get the layout out tomorrow to give the unit a run. This has been a fun project, and I am relatively pleased with the results. I have a pretty unique train, which looks great from the usual viewing distance. As ever there are bits I'm not entirely satisfied with and bits I'd do differently next time. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have a number of projects in bits in various food boxes ready to start. I have been accumulating useful bits from second hand shops, suppliers and ebay for the last 12 months or so. Next up is one of my all time favourite vehicles - no rhyme or reason, but I've always had a soft spot for Mk2 DBSOs. I got hold of a TPM etch for the front end and cow-catcher on e-bay, as with all the etched parts I've come across I was the only bidder, so these cost me less than £2. I'm not sure which way this is going to go, Network Rail, or even Intercity. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing your DBSO completed, David. You are probably aware of this already, but these parts will produce the DBSO in original form, as used in Scotland. These retained the gangway end and a half width cab. They were rebuilt before transfer to the Anglia region, losing the gangway end and gaining a full-width cab so you are limited to producing them in as-built condition. Bernard does produce a rebuilt Mk2 front end and very nicely moulded it is too. I have a couple waiting to be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David41283 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing your DBSO completed, David. You are probably aware of this already, but these parts will produce the DBSO in original form, as used in Scotland. These retained the gangway end and a half width cab. They were rebuilt before transfer to the Anglia region, losing the gangway end and gaining a full-width cab so you are limited to producing them in as-built condition. Bernard does produce a rebuilt Mk2 front end and very nicely moulded it is too. I have a couple waiting to be used. Hi - I had no idea there was anything better out there! My plan was to simply file away the 'latches' around the edge of the etched front plate and blend it in with a bit of filler to get the refurbished look. I have plenty of etched TDM cables, and small grills to do the rest of the front end. I'd be interested in a photo of the moulded front end if you're able to post one. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wherry Lines Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'll see if I can find them tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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