LNER Models in 4mm

[jwealleans]

I hope Mick's OK with the thread hijack, but I've found the photo I was looking at: it's in Railway Carriage Album by G M Kitchenside, page 64 and shows two of the coaches Larry mentions above. I believe the one nearest the camera is No. 99. It looks to be in a plain unlined livery to me, but the photo is undated so I'd be loath to guess brown or maroon.

 

I thought I had more photos but I can't put my hands on them at the moment.

[coachmann]

M&GN No.99, as illustrated in Kitchenside's album, carries simple LMS livery ie: double yellow at waist and two yellow lines in cantrail. This coach is a 12' 8" high vehicle with low roof and clerestory. They make for interesting coaches with perimeter seating (inward facing) and a very long table in the saloon portion. End of hijack!

 

Larry.

[Barry Rhys]

 

Next a couple of D&S NBR 16ton Mineral wagons . The first one I used a photo in the current MRJ as a rough painting guide its in a very tired post war livery photo has paint date on the solebar as 1946

 

 

Another pre 1937 livery as in the original Tatlow LNER Wagons Book

 

 

 

Mick

 

Mick, they're lovely models of wagons that actually look like they're being used - specially the faded 'NE' on the first one. Out of interest, what are the hairy bits sticking out of the top of the first one - is it a load, or just an accident? Do the D&S castings include interior detail (planks, door edges, bolt heads etc)? - if you happen to have a piccy of the inside of either of these wagons, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

Now my "why do you always have to spoil it" comment - God, I'm starting to feel guilty before I've even made it:

 

Have a look at the brakes on No.714420. As far as I can see, put the brake lever down, and the brakes will come even further off... Interestingly, although it's an easy mistake to accidentally fit a standard lever to the brake side of a Morton-braked wagon (and the corresponding Morton-clutched lever to the non-brake side), you appear to have 2 sets of Morton-style 'left-over-right' brakes on the same wagon B) . Are the 2 models of the same wagon type? (I notice they have different axlebox types, but otherwise appear identical.) The first wagon is correct for 'either side' brakes, ie. twin v-hangers each side (I think - though I'm not certain from the photo) and separate 'right-over-left' brakes each side. So on the D&S wagons, are the brake sets reversible to make 'left-over-right' from 'right-over-left' (that is, brake shoe and rivet detail on front and back of the brake castings - in which case they would be ideal for the spares box!), and you've accidentally fitted them the wrong way round? Or have you managed to raid the spares box for 2 sets of Mortons from other wagons (stop sniggering at the back there...)??

 

Well I've seen enough high-quality modelling from you to think you'll take this info like a man, and not beat me up when you see me. Please feel free to enquire when I'm going to get off my a*se and actually do some modelling myself

 

Look forward to seeing some more Scottish stuff too.

 

Neil

[micklner]

Mick, they're lovely models of wagons that actually look like they're being used - specially the faded 'NE' on the first one. Out of interest, what are the hairy bits sticking out of the top of the first one - is it a load, or just an accident? Do the D&S castings include interior detail (planks, door edges, bolt heads etc)? - if you happen to have a piccy of the inside of either of these wagons, I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

 

Two cock ups is the simple honest answer

 

No 1 "Fluff " now gone

 

No 2 Brakegear is back to front the casting has the same size mounting slot on both sides (no idea why) and I never checked before soldering. I have a NB van amongst a couple others to start tomorrow so it will be a quick swop over of the brake gear at the same time. I have managed to do the same on NER hoppers in the past as well must be the eyes

 

Yes the wagons have interior detail and I will post a picture on the next "photo shoot"

 

While i am here the TPO had the roof glue on today. Hopefully the rest of the net gear etc will be done soon too.

 

cheers

 

Mick

[2512silverfox]

Mick

 

Going back to your TPOs. Do not forget that the late fee boxes on both sides of the vehicle would have been post office red during the teak period. The transfers were then applied and I have a set on my workshop wall which came from Doncaster complete with original panel!

[micklner]

Great !!! one guess who thought a TPO was finished today

I have now ordered the Modelmaster Decal TPO set not sure if its 100% correct as the G R insignia is different from the photos I have . Should be able to cut it about if needed.

 

Silver Fox I presume the whole panel is Red ??

 

thanks

 

Mick

[2512silverfox]

Yes! Sorry, I should have noticed before.

[micklner]

Silver Fox

 

No problem it will be a easy add on.

 

I have tried to find a decent picture of the" red area " without success. Have you a photo you could post please

 

thanks

 

Mick

[jwealleans]

If you've still got the Steve Banks article, Mick, it shows up well in the photo bottom of page 54.

[micklner]

Hi

Yes I still have the article the photo shows the variation in colour but not the lettering, as its too distant.

Also on the built models he has not painted either the letterbox panel on either the LNER or BR versions in the article Post Office Red , just to confuse the issue a tad !!

 

cheers

 

Mick

[micklner]

As requested the interior of the D&S NBR Mineral wagon showing detail

 

 

Latest built models all 51 L versions

 

NBR Van Dia 59

 

 

NER Perishables Van Dia F9

 

 

NER Dia P5 Hopper

 

 

 

Current model a D&S GCR CCT . I have been unable to find any photos of this one. Does anyone have any please?? I have added the doors and started on the door runners this afternoon.

 

 

 

Mick

[micklner]

TPO completed.

I tried the Modelmaster Decals but on arrival they are not suitable for LNER vehicles which is contrary to the Modelmasters listing . The panels are too wide and wrong height .

I therefore added some Red decal panels and added some "lettering" with a Gold Gel Pen not perfect but looks ok from a normal viewing distance.

It was lucky that Silver Fox mentioned the Red panels because on further looking at the "Net" side the etch has the letterbox in the wrong panel ( can be seen in earlier photos one panel to the right) I managed to scrape the raised letterbox off with a Swan Morton No 10 blade and used a piece of Microstrip for the letterbox in the correct panel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The GCR CCT has now had all the numerous!! Brass etchings added and awaits the Whitemetal castings next

 

 

 

 

Still had no luck with any further info re this vehicle . Can anyone assist ?? Thanks

 

Mick

[2512silverfox]

Mick

 

I do have a painted example of the GC CCT and will post a picture of it but not until tomorrow - I have got to find it!

[micklner]

Mick

 

I do have a painted example of the GC CCT and will post a picture of it but not until tomorrow - I have got to find it!

 

 

Thanks that will help. What is your view on LNER NPCS Brown what shade is it any idea ??

 

Mick

[Rob Pulham]

The TPO really look the part Mick - well worth the fiddle and patience in my eyes. Did you use transfers for the vertical lining on the upper panels or your Bob Moore? either way they are very convincing.

 

I do like the brass detailing on the CCT - I have four D&S kits (only four ) in the pile but I haven't had a go with one as yet.

 

I hope you manage to get enough information as I am looking forward to seeing it complete.

 

Along similar lines the Isinglass kits seem to be worth a look when they become available.

[micklner]

Lining is from Marc Models.It is very reluctant to adhere to the panel lines the only way i could get to lay was to coat the line with varnish and lay the decal straight on top of the wet varnish and then allow both to dry. If you look closely it even has the outer red lining behing the yellow.

Most of the whitemetal pieces are now on the CCT. I saw the Isinglass Milk Van at St Albans looked ok, it has a brass roof of which I am not a big fan as a bit awkward not having rolling bars!!

Rob re D&S kits normally very good be very careful of the instructions they could be clearer in Hungarian at times as to what goes where etc !!

 

cheers

 

Mick

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Mick, I will bear that in mind when I start one of mine. I am thinking that once I have cleared the part built projects I will tackle some of my stash of wagon kits and a couple of them are D&S.

[jwealleans]

Like that TPO, Mick. What did you use for the netting?

 

Interesting what you say about the Marc models lining as well - I have my eye on that for a steel panelled twin which has been part started for some years. You were applying it onto a gloss finish, were you?

[mozzer models]

Like that TPO, Mick. What did you use for the netting?

 

Interesting what you say about the Marc models lining as well - I have my eye on that for a steel panelled twin which has been part started for some years. You were applying it onto a gloss finish, were you?

 

 

looks like the neting you get from 247 developments with there etched net frame

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice TPO a lot better then the one i built

[Ravenser]

The TPO looks very fine indeed

[micklner]

RE Transfers yes gloss varnish.

 

TPO equipment is 247 parts

 

cheers

Mick

[2512silverfox]

Mick

 

A couple of answers here.

 

First a photo of the GC CCT in pre '37 livery.

 

Then a couple of TPO transfers (actual) - The reign changes - in your case G X R.

 

Now the question of NPCS Brown. I will try to simplify. Up until 1939 the works mixed their own 'Brown' or 'Teak' paint, each works shade being slightly different. Add to that the fact that batches were made up in galvanised dustbins and paint kettles filled therefrom. Depending on when during a shift (or week) the paint was drawnm, you got s slight vaiation of colour! The mat paint was then varnished which gave another variation depending on the number of coats.

 

The same supposed colour was used on all NPCS stock and all coahes for solebars wheel centres etc.

 

Then in 1938 with the introduction of the LLCK (Extra Long CCT) a new Gloss paint was used which was provided from an outside contractor. This was matched in tins to a sealed pattern and diid not vary at source.

 

The prvenance for this information was from two senior paint shop foreman, one each at Doncaster and York, who had worked up as apprectives in the 20's and 30's.

 

I use precision 'Teak Brown' and still have some old Humbrol HR143. These two shades vary slightly which is quite pleasing. The GNR CCT is in Precision.

 

Hope this help - if only to confuse you further!

 

Nick

[coachmann]

Very interesting info there Nick. Was this same 'tub' paint used on ex-Midland coaches transferred to the M&GN and inheritated by the LNER?

 

Interesting to see those proprietory axlebox covers on te GNR van, as also used by the LNWR.

 

Larry

[micklner]

Mick

 

A couple of answers here.

 

First a photo of the GC CCT in pre '37 livery.

 

Then a couple of TPO transfers (actual) - The reign changes - in your case G X R.

 

Now the question of NPCS Brown. I will try to simplify. Up until 1939 the works mixed their own 'Brown' or 'Teak' paint, each works shade being slightly different. Add to that the fact that batches were made up in galvanised dustbins and paint kettles filled therefrom. Depending on when during a shift (or week) the paint was drawnm, you got s slight vaiation of colour! The mat paint was then varnished which gave another variation depending on the number of coats.

 

The same supposed colour was used on all NPCS stock and all coahes for solebars wheel centres etc.

 

Then in 1938 with the introduction of the LLCK (Extra Long CCT) a new Gloss paint was used which was provided from an outside contractor. This was matched in tins to a sealed pattern and diid not vary at source.

 

The prvenance for this information was from two senior paint shop foreman, one each at Doncaster and York, who had worked up as apprectives in the 20's and 30's.

 

I use precision 'Teak Brown' and still have some old Humbrol HR143. These two shades vary slightly which is quite pleasing. The GNR CCT is in Precision.

 

Hope this help - if only to confuse you further!

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

Nick

Thanks for the info re the CCT colours and the picture.

Re the TPO your picture does not match the Harris pictures and others I have is it post war script ? My photos have

 

G Crown R

 

then 3 lines of script below as per my poor attempt on my model

 

many thanks

 

Mick

[2512silverfox]

Mick

 

The period to 1936 would have been G Crown R rather than GVR which was never used. The late fee notice is an actual pre War LNER transfer although I agree that the spacing may have been changed over the years. The lettering was script in Victorian times.

 

Larry

 

My information from Doncaster in about 1965 was that this method was used for the brown, red oxide and wagon grey. The red oxide was quite stable because the main ingredient was red oxide. This was the brown which would have been used on the re branded M&GN stock. In 1975, when David and I sorted out the restoration of the GN 6 wheel brake for the NRM at York, the foreman confirmed the batch mixing method although he only remembered it at the start of his career. He did not like 'amateurs' telling him how to paint a coach, but after we went through the full 13 applications in detail, he laughed and agreed to do it 'as they did'. Incidentally it cost more for the gold leaf than the coach cost originall in 1880!

 

Nick