Andy Y Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I had intended to start this today but I decided it would be worth getting some input from the wider membership. I'm planning a detailed survey to build up the best picture of what the hobby actually looks like. We regularly hear prophesies of doom but there's evidence the other way too so I'd like us to be able to find out more information such as: Where are the modellers? What are the demographics? What scales/gauges do they model? What are their interests e.g. modelling or operations What do they do within the hobby? e.g. Box-openers to scratchbuilders What do they do for themselves? What do they think of the changes the hobby is going through? Are they going to spend more or less? Are they going to model more or less? What do they want from manufacturers? (not a wishlist!) What do they want from retailers? What do they want from publishers? What do they want from clubs or societies? What do they want from exhibitions/events? What are their other interests? The results should be interesting and hopefully useful but I'd like to include some thoughts from yourselves. I'd like to get this set up around the end of the month. None of the responses will seek any personal data and is not used for any other marketing purposes other than analysis of overall data/patterns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2015 Only thing I'd say is don't say one or the other with box opener or modeller, some of us do a bit of both in different subjects more tick the ones that apply? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 A pain in the proverbial, but should there be a question regarding pricing of RTR? Formatted not simply as "is it too expensive" but more along the lines of "what are you prepared to pay for". Lets get this put to bed properly for all time. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2015 A pain in the proverbial, but should there be a question regarding pricing of RTR? Formatted not simply as "is it too expensive" but more along the lines of "what are you prepared to pay for". Lets get this put to bed properly for all time. Stewart A good point Stewart but do the questions about spending more or less sort of run parallel to that? Maybe it could lead to a question asking why someone intends to spend more or less? (then tick 'rising prices', 'falling income', 'nothing for me', 'got all that I want/need' ... and so on) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Perhaps also some input from the many (but shrinking) model shop proprietors on how they see their future, i.e. trade supplies to them, and their existing and proposed sales & services to both existing and future customers. As to prices, shop around. I've bagged a few fantastic bargains recently, and none from the very big sellers either. Not all bad out there. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Don't forget "foreign" scales e.g HO, S. Don't forget Narrow/Broad gauge (no need to go through every combination ). Just e.g "4mm scale narrow gauge" or some such should do for each scale. Some idea of timeframe (No, not the silly "era" system which just lumps most steam stuff together). Ask a "what would you like to do if it were available" question. (I suspect some would like to model eras/prototypes not well served by the trade but don't believe they have the skill to do it - isn't Caledonian Blue lovely?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Some idea of timeframe (No, not the silly "era" system which just lumps most steam stuff together). I thought about this before. Perhaps one solution is to give a timescale period for every individually released model, i.e. date first appeared in the livery / form and final date when repainted modified scrapped etc. Probably this would become a minefield as "exact" dates may not be known, and would no doubt be the source of many a (heated) discussion here on RMweb. Best to keep it simple. A BR early crest would be around 1948 to 1956, late crest from 1956 to withdrawal. Yes, many exceptions. Lots of locos were scrapped at Central Wagon, Wigan in the early 60's still wearing early crests. Another suggestion is to give the date modelled (if known) - The manufacturers go to great lengths during research, they most probably have this date info to hand during their research. Maybe a minefield this, I date my own stuff using photos / videos in my collection, or Google images etc. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Do make sure you have options for multiple scales as I can't be the only one with dabblings in more than one (and often at the same time). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Can I suggest that there are various other aspects of the hobby that might be worth exploring? 12v DC or DCC? Virtual modellers who use simulations? Among those who build things, there is a range through whitemetal, brass, plasticard, 3D printing, etc., which all take you off into slightly different aspect of the hobby. I think I would suggest a Likkert scale to measure the spectrum between those who plonk and play at one end of the scale to those who build everything. And I would agree on the need to capture the years that are modelled and the country. Best wishes Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
station cat Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 What about how/when/where people purchase stuff for their layout? Perhaps including a question about how keen people are on buying directly from the manufacturer. Also maybe why do people model railways and what are their favourite/least favourite aspects of modelling. How much space do people have available/how big are people's layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Perhaps some sort of grading might work for what kind of modeller are you, i.e 1 for "box opener and 10 for do it all myself. Based on this forum I suspect that this question will produce some very interesting results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I like the idea of materials. Definately, if possible, have a "check all that apply" kind of question for things like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mikkel Posted March 15, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2015 Perhaps also some input from the many (but shrinking) model shop proprietors on how they see their future, i.e. trade supplies to them, and their existing and proposed sales & services to both existing and future customers. A good idea. Maybe also consider a simple survey at one or two exhibitions? Otherwise you're bound to get the argument that you've only captured users of specialist internet forums? Easy for me to say, I know, but your idea is great Andy and it would be interesting to see a survey that told the full story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Andy, You have listed a possible question regarding clubs but it might be worth asking a direct question along the lines off : "are you a member of a model railway club or formal/informal group?". For many Rmweb members, I suspect this is their club. Also, as suggested above, it might be interesting to ask respondents to grade their own abilities/experience. I assume the survey software will allow you to cross tab issues e.g. Age demographics versus ability/experience etc. Cheers, Glover Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted March 15, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 15, 2015 Do you intend running this in the magazine as well, or just online. For example, we have 60 members in the Club but probably only 25% are members of RMweb - but then again they perhaps don't read BRM anyway ! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I had intended to start this today but I decided it would be worth getting some input from the wider membership. Terrific, and thank you! The trick is getting a format that works that constrains input (minimum free-form entry) but permits multiple answers. My suggestion would be some kind of preferential system to let people choose multiple answers with a different weight. Taking some of your topics with my comments: Where are the modellers? I presume this is 'where do you live?' The buckets here are tricky without knowing what the data will be. I think for your purposes you will want some UK regional 'buckets' but the international ones are a question. Do you break up the Continent? I think Canada and the US should be separate, but maybe not Australia and New Zealand etc. What are the demographics? Age, gender obviously. Income is very relevant to cross correlating pricing questions - but would make people skittish and I note that no personal information will be requested. I presume this includes household income ranges? It would be interesting to see what members think here. Working status - full time, part time, retired I think is relevant without being 'too' personal. What scales/gauges do they model? I'm guessing you will do modelled subject too, but don't see it in the list, and there's all that tedious primary and secondary preference stuff, particularly the way I saw it done in the (very) old MREmag annual polls. I think era and railway company modelled is important - accommodating some kind of system allowing multiple answers but accommodating a relative preference.. What are their interests e.g. modelling or operations (Obviously these are not mutually exclusive) There are layout 'task' questions: Layout research Layout planning Layout building Track laying Scenicking Layout planning Layout Operating - Just 'playing' with trains - Planning a timetable - Running to timetable - Running to waybill etc - For exhibition to the public There are layout 'topology' questions: - Inglenook / shunting puzzle - Shunting plank + fiddle - Point-to-point - Roundy-roundy - Large 'basement empire' (to use the US term) There are layout 'subject' questions - Precise replica of a real place (given selective compression) - Representative of a region - Completely freelanced - Commercial track-plan What do they do within the hobby? e.g. Box-openers to scratchbuilders There are "purpose" questions: What do usually you do with the models you purchase or build? ........................................................................... Always .. Mostly .. Sometimes .. Rarely .. Never I store models for a future layout I am planning ... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I store models to save as an investment .............. ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I place models on static display ............................ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I photograph models ........................................... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I immediately run models on my layout ................ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I immediately run models on my club layout ........ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) When you purchase or build a model, do you plan to resell it? ( ) No ( ) Yes, when I am no longer physically able to enjoy it ( ) Yes, when I sell the layout I acquired it for ( ) Yes, if it's value increases ( ) Yes, as soon as I am finished with it There are "modelling" questions: For rolling stock: - Purchase RTR - Modify RTR - Build kits - Modify kits - Scratch build And track - Commercial - Hand-laid And for structures - Purchase RTP - Modify RTP - Build kits - Modify kits - Scratch build To accommodate all interests may I suggest the questions be formatted in a similar manner to the illustration below: Do you incorporate or model structures .... yes ( ) ... no ( ) (If yes) Which of the following describes your current approach to modelling structures: ............................................................... Always .. Mostly .. Sometimes .. Rarely .. Never I prefer to use ready made structures: ..... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I prefer to modify ready made structures . ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I prefer to assemble kit structures ............ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I prefer to modify kit structures ................ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I prefer to scratch-build structures ........... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) It makes for a long survey but saving going to a preferential system (1-5) I can't think of a better way to keep options open for multiple answers while allowing for some kind of data crunching. Numerical values could be assigned to the answers. Beyond these there are additional questions that I thing would be interesting: What control system do you use: ................................................................................................ Always .. Mostly .. Sometimes .. Rarely .. Never I use DC ..................................................................................... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I use DCC ................................................................................... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I use DCC integrated with computer/mobile device throttles ...... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I use DCC with integrated train control software ........................ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) I use another control approach .................................................. ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) If you use DC would you consider moving to DCC? Sound or no sound? Do you prefer to weather your models? ................... Always .. Mostly .. Sometimes .. Rarely .. Never Wagons ......... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) Coaches ........ ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) Locomotives .. ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) Structures ...... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) .............................................................................. Always .. Mostly .. Sometimes .. Rarely .. Never Do you purchase factory weathered rolling stock? ... ( ) ......... ( ) ............. ( ) ........... ( ) .......... ( ) Do you incorporate signalling? Do you incorporate prototypical trackwork? I would add a question in the "What modelling skills would you like to develop in the next five years?" category. This could be a long list and the trick would be what to leave in and what to leave out. There are different axes for materials (card, plastic, brass (soldering), paint/decoration - airbrush, weathering, lining pen - etc) and subjects (wagons, coaches, locomotives, structures, signals, etc) Answer categories include: None ( ) Rolling Stock - Plastic rolling stock kit assembly - Brass rolling stock kit assembly - Rolling stock painting - Rolling stock lining - Rolling stock weathering Structures - Card kit - Plastic kit - Laser cut wood kit - Scratch-building Scenicking - Casting rocks - Making trees - Backdrops - photographic or painted It depends on how big you would want this survey to be. This post is already too long. I'm stopping now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 What do they want from clubs or societies? With regard to what do they want from clubs or societies, if they're not a member, ask what keeps them from joining in OR what would it take for them to join a club? I do wonder whether a lot of younger model rail fans would perceive at least some clubs, as being 'just for old folks' and does that put them off? Good idea to get a feel for all these questions! John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 With regard to what do they want from clubs or societies, if they're not a member, ask what keeps them from joining in OR what would it take for them to join a club? I do wonder whether a lot of younger model rail fans would perceive at least some clubs, as being 'just for old folks' and does that put them off? Good idea to get a feel for all these questions! John E. No. My reasoning is I cant find any and even if I did, no one would know what LMS means. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
55F Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 There are so many surveys on websites now, everybody appears to want to know what we think about everything! I would suggests that good participation will require a fairly concise number of questions, along the lines of Andy's suggestion. To derive the maximum benefit, the idea of a scale 1 to 10 for most questions is good. This requires minimum input from participants, and might achieve the best results. Just my two penneth! 55f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ryde-on-time Posted March 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think it would be interesting to know how many people build or alter things as there seems to be an attitude from many that modellers only buy stock and buildings ready to use It would be interesting to know how many people have completed a plastic kit in the last 12 months to their satisfaction, likewise an etched kit, multimedia kit, have adapted an RTR model, built a piece of trackwork etc etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Don't forget tinplaters in this predominantly scale oriented group. Their numbers are steadily increasing with demographics similar to any scale. Perhaps predominantly older but other polls show that this group has more time and disposable income to enjoy this aspect of the hobby While some are content with a layout on the floor, other layouts are detailed and sceniced worthy of any scale layout. It is being supported by an increasing number of manufacturers turning out more product ever more frequently and should not be easily dismissed Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 One aspect worth considering is committment. I would love to spend my all my waking hours on: A model railway Railway Preservation Restoring an old car Tending an allotment Earning money to pay for the above Trouble is, I only have the last 40% of one lifetime left to do any of it. So how do people allocate time to the hobby, and how much? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Don't forget tinplaters in this predominantly scale oriented group. Their numbers are steadily increasing with demographics similar to any scale. Perhaps predominantly older but other polls show that this group has more time and disposable income to enjoy this aspect of the hobby While some are content with a layout on the floor, other layouts are detailed and sceniced worthy of any scale layout. It is being supported by an increasing number of manufacturers turning out more product ever more frequently and should not be easily dismissed Brian Surely this is collecting, not modelling? steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Surely this is collecting, not modelling? steve Personally I am not a collector if that is defined by having umpteen models with factory errors, etc. I buy what I need to have a decent system and run what I have. It does not sit behind glass cases gathering dust. I spent hours assembling all the stuff required to model track bed, gradients, bridges and tunnels and whatever else as well as scenic items. Sure all the buildings and accessories come out of the box although I have made some items in the Hornby image, if that counts. In the end it becomes a layout just like most featured herein along with many ideas I have learnt from this group incorporated. After having dabbled in N OO and LGB, it sure feels like modelling! Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 While I think Andy is right that this is due research, I can not help but think that such a project would be monumental. The data it could provide could in turn be a brilliant survey of the hobby to find its health and which directions it is driving. It would be interesting to know if it gets close to some research that companies do to test the market, but I am probably right in thinking nothing that could be as collosal or accurate has been done before. I do also think that Andy is also looking at trying to find evidence for the attitudes that prevail on things such as popularity of regions, or how we hold manufacturers in esteem. A lot of that has become subject of debate recently, as releases become less obvious as regions get crowded and popular engines have been done - or as new sectors and markets are opened up. Delays in releases and production will affect the attidues and responses to a lot of the questions Andy is asking, including prices for the future or where the market is going. While I think many of his ideas are good, I would suggest some other areas to be perhaps considered. Digital; 1. How do you model? Full Digital, or still on full AC. Some have DCC track but then a power control with switches for points. A half way house... just how many have converted fully or remain traditional? Layouts: 2a - Its it your own or a group? or shared? 2b - Where is it kept? 2c - is it permament? 2d - Does it go onto Exhibition Circuit? Themes: The Period and Place you model and why: 3a - Is it because there is RTR stock available to model the time, period and area you choose? 3b - Is it because of personal memories 3c - is it because of personal interest in that time or place? 3d - Is it your second choice, because you could not model your first choice with items that are available? 3e - is stock available for the surrounding area you choose and how significant is that? Location, Location, Location: Is your layout- 4a - A real time and place exactly, including scale and space 4b - Based on a real place, but adapted for size and space available 4c - Completely ficticious Adding these would give Andy data on attidues to the market, the hobby, but also why people are modelling what they do... and thus in tern influence what they would want in the future... It will be very interesting to see developments with this, should it continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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