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RMweb/BRM 'build a loco' Challenge--RTR conversion Ixion Hudswell clarke from saddle to side tank.


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I've fancied trying this for a while as I have a few spare Ixion body parts. I'll be looking to create something on the lines of (but not an accurate model of ) a Manchester Ship Canal shunting loco..

Pics, scribbles, and ideas to follow, signal work permitting.

Oh and bear in mind please, that I'm not sure if this will actually work!!!

Jon F.

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Hello. Very interested in this little thread, as I have had a similar idea, spurred on by a random purchase at a show a while ago of an Agenoria HC Sweden/Canal loco.

 

The kit had been half completed, the main body & parts are OK but there were no wheels, gears, motor etc, so it had been slumbering in my "to do" pile.

 

However after the purchase and running of a couple of the Ixion HC's, I saw some chassis being sold off. Virtually for the price of wheels, motor, gears and pick-ups I could have one of the very nicely running HC chassis.

 

A quick compare of the Ixion against the plan showed that it should be possible to show horn the chassis into the body, if you accept the slight difference in the wheelbase.

 

post-10483-0-41470100-1426871924_thumb.jpg

 

post-10483-0-23051100-1426871940_thumb.jpg

 

The chassis will require the large casting that sits in the Ixion HC smokebox to be removed and the forward sand=boxes will also need to be removed but other wise appers to fit, including the location of the flywheel should just fit nicely into the dock tanks firebox.

 

post-10483-0-34874400-1426871951_thumb.jpg

 

post-10483-0-73907800-1426871960_thumb.jpg

 

Hopefully the photo's should make this clear.

 

I have also come across a drawing of the MSLR HC No.2 with the Ixion chassis superimposed but I think the flywheel projected too far into the cab?

 

Rgds Andrew Jones

Luton MRC

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Hello. Very interested in this little thread, as I have had a similar idea, spurred on by a random purchase at a show a while ago of an Agenoria HC Sweden/Canal loco.

 

The kit had been half completed, the main body & parts are OK but there were no wheels, gears, motor etc, so it had been slumbering in my "to do" pile.

 

However after the purchase and running of a couple of the Ixion HC's, I saw some chassis being sold off. Virtually for the price of wheels, motor, gears and pick-ups I could have one of the very nicely running HC chassis.

 

A quick compare of the Ixion against the plan showed that it should be possible to show horn the chassis into the body, if you accept the slight difference in the wheelbase.

 

attachicon.gifDock tank 1.jpg

 

attachicon.gifDock tank 2.jpg

 

The chassis will require the large casting that sits in the Ixion HC smokebox to be removed and the forward sand=boxes will also need to be removed but other wise appers to fit, including the location of the flywheel should just fit nicely into the dock tanks firebox.

 

attachicon.gifDock tank 3.jpg

 

attachicon.gifDock tank 4.jpg

 

Hopefully the photo's should make this clear.

 

I have also come across a drawing of the MSLR HC No.2 with the Ixion chassis superimposed but I think the flywheel projected too far into the cab?

 

Rgds Andrew Jones

Luton MRC

Excellent info thanks Andrew! I'm hoping to produce a likeness of the short tank version so this is very helpful.

Cheers

Jon F.

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Oooh, will be watching this with interest. The "Swedens" are a particular favourite of mine, and I had considered attempting something similar (possibly involving 3D printing) decided that the wheelbase/ wheel size and size of the motor/ gearbox/ flywheel arrangement would lead to too many compromises. Now Andrew has posted that very helpful set of photos I think I may have been wrong there!  

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For a short time we at Ixion considered the LNER J64 0-6-0T. It has the same wheelbase and size of wheels as the Ixion Hudswell Clarke. The three J64s were built for the Mid-Suffolk Light Railway and were acquired by the LNER in 1924 when it took over the line. Number 3 was withdrawn immediately and never received an LNER number. Numbers 1 and 2 were renumbered as LNER 8316 and 8317 respectively. Sadly, our enthusiasm was tempered by inter aliaJ64 profile with HC ST chassis profile.pdf the fact that the worm and gears would be partially visible under the boiler in front of the side tanks. To alter this would have required a different and new tool for the chassis thus eliminating any potential economies. Nevertheless, I have attached a drawing of the J64 in profile with the outline of the Ixion chassis roughly drawn with a highlighter.

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Hello Chris

 

Yes that was the diagram I saw. The daylight under the boiler would go, but otherwise that would be a straight forward modification - use the cab and rear part of the tanks, the smokebox & chimney, then add a section of boiler with dome and extend the side tanks?

 

I do have another spare chassis and body, need to look at that as a possibility. I was considering the HC 347 of 1892 but that would require David Smith levels of modification, which I am not sure I am up for at the moment!

 

http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/21/Ironstone_7.htm

 

It appears to be a smidge longer, different cab arrangement, no front underfootplate sand boxes and the modified connecting rods & wheel balance weights.

 

Rgds Andrew Jones

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Hello again

 

Spent a few minutes looking at the existing body shell parts re the rough idea for the MSLR loco, but it would appear that the MSLR boiler is bigger. However I have noticed that on the Ixion HC Saddle tank the boiler diameter at the firebox end is much bigger than the smoke box end.

 

post-10483-0-93222900-1427316463_thumb.jpg

 

post-10483-0-44584400-1427316476_thumb.jpg

 

I presume that this was a deliberate action to give more room around the motor as it is very tight?

 

post-10483-0-73790300-1427316491_thumb.jpg

 

Also there is a plug in circuit board. If this was removed and the motor hard wired (for non DCC application) will there be any problems?

 

Rgds Andrew Jones

 

PS - Further to my comments above I have now had the chance to look at some other HC saddle tank loco's and they all exhibit the same difference in boiler diameters, with the top of the firebox section being much higher than the top of the smokebox. What sort of boiler did they use - haystack?

Edited by AJon30
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For a short time we at Ixion considered the LNER J64 0-6-0T. It has the same wheelbase and size of wheels as the Ixion Hudswell Clarke. The three J64s were built for the Mid-Suffolk Light Railway and were acquired by the LNER in 1924 when it took over the line. Number 3 was withdrawn immediately and never received an LNER number. Numbers 1 and 2 were renumbered as LNER 8316 and 8317 respectively. Sadly, our enthusiasm was tempered by inter aliaattachicon.gifJ64 profile with HC ST chassis profile.pdf the fact that the worm and gears would be partially visible under the boiler in front of the side tanks. To alter this would have required a different and new tool for the chassis thus eliminating any potential economies. Nevertheless, I have attached a drawing of the J64 in profile with the outline of the Ixion chassis roughly drawn with a highlighter.

That's certainly food for thought! I haven't had a chance to compare this with the MSC tanks yet but it looks somewhat smaller at first glance.

JF

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Ok, a rattle through the bits box came up with a smokebox door, a H/C looking chimney, and an Adams dome that can be filed to shape :butcher: . I now have some drawings to print off (thanks!!) so I'll peruse all the photos I've gathered together and try to set a starting point. It looks like the firebox top on the Ixion will have to be reduced in size to get a good horizontal line for the boiler and still allow me to increase the diameter for the smoke box.

Not sure what materials to use yet but I've thought of plasticard for the tanks/sandboxes and brass or nickel silver for the boiler assembly..

post-7179-0-22799300-1427657582.jpg

More soon, signals permitting

JF

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The firebox is bigger because it is of the "waggon-top" variety commonly found on Saddle tanks because the usual steam dome would have required a funny cut-out in the top of the saddle tank. There were other reasons, such as the shape and angles of the stays, but others have argued things like the steam being collected above the firebox (hottest part of the boiler) made for better locomotive performance and reduced priming.

 

Some of you may recall that I asked if this was possible, before Dava stole the show with his GCR conversion of the Hudswell Clarke!

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The firebox is bigger because it is of the "waggon-top" variety commonly found on Saddle tanks because the usual steam dome would have required a funny cut-out in the top of the saddle tank. There were other reasons, such as the shape and angles of the stays, but others have argued things like the steam being collected above the firebox (hottest part of the boiler) made for better locomotive performance and reduced priming.

 

Some of you may recall that I asked if this was possible, before Dava stole the show with his GCR conversion of the Hudswell Clarke!

I don't think it'll be much of a problem as the boiler on the Canal class tanks doesn't have a raised firebox. The side tanks are set higher from the cab front too so I'll be able to hide any changes to the firebox top..

I think the steam is collected from the top of the dome where the regulator valve is situated.

post-7179-0-45945900-1427995778_thumb.jpg

(Note;Not my picture and I'll remove it if there's a problem with copyright)

I'll start the job soon honest!!

Jon F

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally made a slow and rather scrappy start on the project.

The cab unit looks to be a very close match but there is a chunk that needs removing. I tried to strip the unit down further but it was too well glued and I didn’t want to risk breaking it. This made removal of the chunk (is it for the reverser lever?) a bit difficult but it will filled, smoothed and partly covered by the top of the tanks.

post-7179-0-34488800-1429914011.jpg

The side tanks sit a bit higher against the cab than the original profile so new sides were shaped (very roughly) and glued to the cab structure. The front of the tanks were aligned with the drawings I have and were profiled to fit over the chassis block.
A fillet was added at the joint between tank and cabside which will be filed to shape and blended in with a bit (lot?) of filler. The tank tops will be made up to fit once the boiler unit is in position as they appear to “blend in”.
post-7179-0-58960100-1429914015.jpgpost-7179-0-74874100-1429914019.jpg
The boiler/smokebox unit seems to be about 32mm so if I can find a piece in my stores, some copper pipe may well be used with a suitable overlay for the smokebox. It will of course not be able to be cylindrical as the chassis block will not allow it but will have a section removed and become “C” shaped. The chassis block can’t be greatly altered as there are gears in some of them there lumps!
If I can’t find a suitable piece of pipe I’ll roll a piece of N/S sheet and just hope I can get the right shape!
Meanwhile, the plasticard’s out again and I’ve made up the large sandboxes that go next to the smokebox. I'll stamp the lids out with a leather punch tomorrow when I get back from Leigh.

post-7179-0-13648200-1429914027.jpg

All a bit rough looking at the moment but it’s early days yet and I’m fairly confident it’ll look OK in the end!
More soon
JF

Edited by Jon Fitness
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I like your conversion job so far. I've got a bit of a dilemma with what, exactly, to do with a spare Hudswell Clarke mechnism I bought on ebay. I was thinking some sort of side-tank project. Perhaps I should use it on my planned Manning Wardle L or M class. Sure, it won't be prototypical, but with only a body to build it should be relatively easy.

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With the size of the Ixion chassis block I would imagine a saddle tank would be an easier option. The L class looks very "do-able".

I've decided to go with a rolled boiler for the MSC tank.  I fancy trying my first bit of loco scratchbuilding in brass or nickle-silver :scratchhead:

JF

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Applied a bit of filler to the tank/cab structure. Plan B will be used for this bit. Rather than try and blend a rolled metal boiler across the end of the tanks, I'll make the area as far as the front end of the tanks from plastic and have a metal boiler/smokebox arrangement from the tank fronts.

Just need to get the levels right so it all lines up.

post-7179-0-42135700-1430077608_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-61071200-1430077622_thumb.jpg

More soon

JF

Edited by Jon Fitness
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If you didn't know, the top of the firebox is a separate component which has been glued in place and isn't too difficult to remove. That tip might help you when you come to do the boiler.

Frustratingly, I'd worked out which bits come apart but I just couldn't persuade the glue to let go. I didn't want to risk cracking bits of it. It's far too well made (and probably designed to stay that way too!)

Thanks anyway!

JF

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Mine came off after a small amount of "persuasion" with a sharp no.11 blade and a small amount of brute force. I needed it off as I was giving my first Hudswell Clarke a respray from black to green (and smoothing out the saddle tank at the same time.)

You're giving me ideas about what to do with the Hudswell Clarke Mechanism I bought. I'm trying to find out of Hudswell Clarke built any other side-tank locomotives with the same wheel diameter and spacing as the 13" x 20" contractor's type, but the saddle tanks are all that turn up at the moment! Thus far I have three saddle tanks, with a fourth one on the way, and I would like to balance it out slightly with a side-tank type.

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Mine came off after a small amount of "persuasion" with a sharp no.11 blade and a small amount of brute force. I needed it off as I was giving my first Hudswell Clarke a respray from black to green (and smoothing out the saddle tank at the same time.)

 

You're giving me ideas about what to do with the Hudswell Clarke Mechanism I bought. I'm trying to find out of Hudswell Clarke built any other side-tank locomotives with the same wheel diameter and spacing as the 13" x 20" contractor's type, but the saddle tanks are all that turn up at the moment! Thus far I have three saddle tanks, with a fourth one on the way, and I would like to balance it out slightly with a side-tank type.

Is there anything with outside cylinders, like this or this for instance? Not sure of the wheelbase but I didn't let that spoil my fun with the "Canal" class one I'm doing ;) ..

JF

Edited by Jon Fitness
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