Piko SmartControl

[Pete22]

Guilty, m'lud! Got one from a box-splitter on Ebay, for quite a bit less than the not-yet-realeased non-train-pack version.

Hi All,

 

I rather fancy buying a Piko Smart Control starter set, but I seek some advice.. (maybe Dogmatix - as above- still has one so perhaps can help ?).

May I ask for opinions/ information on the following :-

 

1. Which make/model of walk-about controller can be used with the Smart box ? - I don't want to pay a lot more by adding another wireless hand-held unit.

2. If any wired walkabouts exist, (surprisingly Piko & ESU don't seem to market one !) does it need to connect into the LNET socket ? - therefore the same plug connection is required.

3. Is the LNET socket working now ( I saw a note somewhere that it would be at some point, after a firmware update).

4. Would a separate walkabout / wired controller allow fully independent / simultaneous control of a 2nd loco, so allowing 2 to be controlled at once ?

5. Does the unit have a SHORT protection system built in ?

 

Too many questions I know, but if I can get a better overall picture, it will make my choice much more informed ! - cos it ain't cheap ..

My plan would be to buy one and use it with probably RocRail software. This set-up would replace my Hornby Elite & Railmaster system (I hope !!)...

 

Many thanks in advance..

 

Pete..

[GoingUnderground]

Hi All,

 

I rather fancy buying a Piko Smart Control starter set, but I seek some advice.. (maybe Dogmatix - as above- still has one so perhaps can help ?).

May I ask for opinions/ information on the following :-

 

1. Which make/model of walk-about controller can be used with the Smart box ? - I don't want to pay a lot more by adding another wireless hand-held unit.

2. If any wired walkabouts exist, (surprisingly Piko & ESU don't seem to market one !) does it need to connect into the LNET socket ? - therefore the same plug connection is required.

3. Is the LNET socket working now ( I saw a note somewhere that it would be at some point, after a firmware update).

4. Would a separate walkabout / wired controller allow fully independent / simultaneous control of a 2nd loco, so allowing 2 to be controlled at once ?

5. Does the unit have a SHORT protection system built in ?

 

Too many questions I know, but if I can get a better overall picture, it will make my choice much more informed ! - cos it ain't cheap ..

My plan would be to buy one and use it with probably RocRail software. This set-up would replace my Hornby Elite & Railmaster system (I hope !!)...

 

Many thanks in advance..

 

Pete..

 

I'm an ECoS and Mobile Control 2 user, so I'll tell you what I know based on my knowledge of them.

1. AFAIK, only the SmartControl handset can be used with the SmartBox. In theory, you could also use an ESU Mobile Control 2 provided you had first installed the Smartcontrol app on it. I don't know if that can be done. If it can, there may still be a product check built in to the app that stopped it running on an MC2, or on any other Android device.
2. Once the LocoNet socket is activated, you can use a Loconet slave throttle, see the ESU web site under L.Net module for examples. The L.Net port has apparently been implemented as a "T" variant, meaning it can only be used with slave throttles or occupancy detectors. You cannot connect Loconet boosters to it. IF you want a booster, you can connect the ESU ECoSBoost units to it via the ECoSLink port.
3. The release notes for the app and SmartBox on the Piko website don't seem to mention activation of the Loconet port, see their support page http://www.piko-shop.de/?a=sc The English language version of the user manual can also be downloaded from there.
4. If it works like an ECoS, and it seems to borrow an awful lot of the ECoS's attributes and fundamentals, then a corded slave throttle connected via Loconet (once the port is activated by the necessary SmartBox firmware update), should be totally independent. Additional SmartControl handsets will have totally independent control.
5. If it works like an ECoS, then it will have short circuit protection built in, in which case you would need to be careful if you were intending to use circuit breakers or autoreverse modules that you get ones that work faster than the SmartBox's short circuit detection, which means using ones that use solid state electronics, not traditional electromechanical relays.

Hope this is some help.

[GoingUnderground]

One other observation for you. As the SmartBox has what seems to be the 7 pin ECoSLink master socket, you could, if the SmartBox has inherited the ECoS's L.Net module functionality, you could connect an ESU L.Net module and connect your loconet throttle to that. But it would be a bit odd to have a separate Loconet "T" port if the same result could be obtained with an L.Net module.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Despite the exchange rate currently working against UK buyers, the SmartControl (control system on its own, or bundled with a train set) is still good value, if bought direct from continental Europe.

 

Approx. £295 for the SmartControl, £400 for either of the standard train sets and £480 for the "premium" train set.

(inc. LokSound fitted locos etc)

 

 

A couple of articles from earlier this year.....

 

http://focusmodelling.co.uk/layouts-and-scenery/62-piko-smartcontrol

 

http://modelrailroadnews.com/piko-smartcontrol/

 

 

 

.

[Blue Max]

Is it possible to import pictures of your own loco's into the memory on this DCC system?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Is it possible to import pictures of your own loco's into the memory on this DCC system?

 

 

I'm not sure.

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think that's available at the present time.

There's an on-board library of pre-loaded loco images, but that will be limited to a certain number of (German) prototypes.

 

The ESU Mobile Control 2, on which the SmartControl handset is based, has both a pre-loaded images and the ability to select user defined images (your own pictures).

These user defined images are installed via the main ECoS Command Station and subsequently uploaded automatically to the  Mobile Control 2 handset.

They will be selectable under the "other" category in the loco icons menu.

 

This method of importing images isn't an option available to the SmartControl, as there is no ECoS equivalent in the systems set-up.

However, the "other" option for selecting loco icons is already available on the SmartControl handset, so it may be that there is passive provision for uploading images in some way, at some point in the future.

 

 

 

.

[blueeighties]

Just bought one of these and just stumbled upon this thread! Love the handset, very nice weight and quality to it. I too was also wondering about uploading images of my loco fleet.

On a slightly different note, my layout uses Tortoise point motors. I believe I need a particular type of accessory decoder to work them, does anybody know which?

 

Regards,

 

Lee

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just bought one of these and just stumbled upon this thread! Love the handset, very nice weight and quality to it. ..........

 

 

Do keep us posted with updates Lee.

It'll be interesting to hear how you're getting on with the SmartControl system.

 

Ron

 

 

.

[blueeighties]

Do keep us posted with updates Lee.

It'll be interesting to hear how you're getting on with the SmartControl system.

 

Ron

 

 

.

Cheers Ron. First impressions are I like it, a lot. Everything I need, and very nice quality. The only issue I have so far come acroos is Railcom and sound decoders. Loksound V4's are automatically recognised as soon as you place them onto the track. Took me a while to also realise that as well as doing that, the system automatically allocates a dcc address once the decoder is recognised. Once it has done that, it's then just a simple case of going into that particular locos editing screen, and adding it's own cabside number for identity.

My current stumbling block is my pair of Legoman sound fitted class 20's. 2 seperate decoders, but working in unison on the same address....Railcom will only recognise them as seperate decoders, and allocates them 2 seperate addresses. The only way I can see around this is to disable the Railcom auto recognition feature.

[Nigelcliffe]

Cheers Ron. First impressions are I like it, a lot. Everything I need, and very nice quality. The only issue I have so far come acroos is Railcom and sound decoders. Loksound V4's are automatically recognised as soon as you place them onto the track. Took me a while to also realise that as well as doing that, the system automatically allocates a dcc address once the decoder is recognised. Once it has done that, it's then just a simple case of going into that particular locos editing screen, and adding it's own cabside number for identity.

My current stumbling block is my pair of Legoman sound fitted class 20's. 2 seperate decoders, but working in unison on the same address....Railcom will only recognise them as seperate decoders, and allocates them 2 seperate addresses. The only way I can see around this is to disable the Railcom auto recognition feature.

 

Try disabling RailCom in one of the Class 20 decoders.   Its a CV change (CV29 for all of RailCom), or others for selectively turning off individual RailCom features.      That should leave you with one 20 with RailCom, one without (so doesn't report anything), and the combined pair should be RailCom recognised if you need it for the future. 

 

 

- Nigel

[Ron Ron Ron]

......My current stumbling block is my pair of Legoman sound fitted class 20's. 2 seperate decoders, but working in unison on the same address....Railcom will only recognise them as seperate decoders, and allocates them 2 seperate addresses.

The only way I can see around this is to disable the Railcom auto recognition feature.

 

 

Have you tried to consist them?

Manual page 34 section 4.2.3

 

 

.

[GoingUnderground]

Just bought one of these and just stumbled upon this thread! Love the handset, very nice weight and quality to it. I too was also wondering about uploading images of my loco fleet.

On a slightly different note, my layout uses Tortoise point motors. I believe I need a particular type of accessory decoder to work them, does anybody know which?

 

Regards,

 

Lee

 

Your question about loading your own loco images was answered in post 54, see below.

I asked Piko about the locomotive icons: they have replied that there will be more icons with each software update. There is no possibility to add own pictures, but Piko will happily accept user's requests, and will add icons by popular demand. This presumably means that if a certain locomotive is requested repeatedly and if it already exists in ESU's database, they'll add it.

 

How many icons does the ECoS system have?

 

Whether that has changed in the last 12 months I don't know. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for UK outline images, as requests from UK outline modellers are, IMHO, likely to be minimal compared to requests for mainland Europe and N. American images.

 

There are 4 ESU loco image databases

1. the fixed ones that come built in to the colour ECoS 2's firmware, which as I said before, sounds like the range built into the SmartControl system;

2. the nearly 10,000 icons (there are many duplications) created by ECoS 2 users like myself.

3. the black & white loco images that are built into the original ECoS 1's firmware, and

4. the over 1,500 B&W images created by users for the ECoS 1.

 

In this context, only the colour ECoS 2 icons would be relevant. I think it unlikely that ESU would make icons created by ECoS 2 users available to Smartcontrol owners, as that would take away one of the ECoS 2's USP, the huge range of user-created loco icons. However, if ESU ever launch their own version of the SmartControl, i could see them creating a separate loco image area on the ESU website for owners of their version of the Smartcontrol, which might accept ECoS images. Whether these would then leak out to Piko SmartControl owners is another matter.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....There are 4 ESU loco image databases

1. the fixed ones that come built in to the colour ECoS 2's firmware, which as I said before, sounds like the range built into the SmartControl system;

2. the nearly 10,000 icons (there are many duplications) created by ECoS 2 users like myself.

3. the black & white loco images that are built into the original ECoS 1's firmware, and

4. the over 1,500 B&W images created by users for the ECoS 1.

From what I can glean, you don't need to access any of those databases to install your own images on an ECoS.

Suitably sized icons can be uploaded directly from your own computer.

 

 

 

......However, if ESU ever launch their own version of the SmartControl.....

It will be interesting to see if this is announced in January, when the 2017 catalogue is launched.

They dropped the budget Navigator system a year ago and currently don't have a less costly offering in their range, to compete against the likes of the Z21.

 

 

.

[GoingUnderground]

From what I can glean, you don't need to access any of those databases to install your own images on an ECoS.

Suitably sized icons can be uploaded directly from your own computer.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMFVdSWTAbg&feature=youtu.be

.

Yes, it is easy to upload your own images to ECoS from your computer Windows, Apple, Chromebook or Linux, it doesn't matter, which, that's why so many users like myself have created our own, often from our own pictures taken with digital cameras of our models, or even in the case of one of my loco images, of the actual 1:1 loco itself (LT/Metropolitan Railway MetroVic No. 12 - "Sarah Siddons"). We've been able to upload our own images since the August 2010 release of ECoS firmware 3.3.0, previously we were restricted to the images built in to the ECoS firmware..

 

However, you need to be able to turn a photo into an image in the required format (190 x 40 pixels). Not every ECoS owner has the software and/or the time, and/or patience and/or skill to, do that when nowadays 8 megapixels seems to be the "minimum resolution" for digital cameras and smartphones which means starting with an image that could be as large as 3,000 x 2,250 pixels, if not larger still. Hence the importance of the icons created by users and shared with other ECoS users via the "Loco Icon Bazar" on ESU's website which holds all the images that us ECoS owners have uploaded to the ESU website.

 

The Loco Icon Bazaar is only accessible to ECoS owners.

Edited December 23, 2016 by GoingUnderground

[GoingUnderground]

Cheers Ron. First impressions are I like it, a lot. Everything I need, and very nice quality. The only issue I have so far come acroos is Railcom and sound decoders. Loksound V4's are automatically recognised as soon as you place them onto the track. Took me a while to also realise that as well as doing that, the system automatically allocates a dcc address once the decoder is recognised. Once it has done that, it's then just a simple case of going into that particular locos editing screen, and adding it's own cabside number for identity.

My current stumbling block is my pair of Legoman sound fitted class 20's. 2 seperate decoders, but working in unison on the same address....Railcom will only recognise them as seperate decoders, and allocates them 2 seperate addresses. The only way I can see around this is to disable the Railcom auto recognition feature.

 

 

Have you tried to consist them?

Manual page 34 section 4.2.3

 

 

.

I agree with Ron that you should consist them. That way you can still control each loco individually if/when you want to by breaking the consist.

 

However, if you really would prefer to operate the Class 20s as a permanent pairing, then you can give them the same address, which is what I think is your preference

 

The following advice is based on using RailCom Plus decoders with the same address with ESU's ECoS.

 

To have Railcom Plus capable decoders with the same address on a Railcom Plus enabled system, you have to turn off Railcom Plus on the decoder(s) that has/have Railcom Plus, which is to share the same address with another decoder. As both your 20s have LokSound V4s with Railcom Plus it means that you have to turn Railcom Plus off for both decoders. You do that by changing CV28 (and I do mean CV28, see the description for CV28 on page 79 in the Loksound manual), from its default value of 131 to 3. That way your SmartControl will no longer see both decoders as RailCom Plus enabled and will stop trying to give them unique addresses.

 

This applies even if only one of the decoders is RailCom Plus capable, as the RailCom Plus master controller will change the address of the RailCom Plus decoder if it shares an address with a non-RailCom Plus decoder.

 

Changing CV28 still leaves Railcom fully enabled on the Decoders, so you keep all the benefits of Railcom, especially loco ID, and means you can leave Railcom Plus active on the SmartControl. so any new decoders with RailCom Plus will receive new addresses if their address duplicates an existing address.

 

You do NOT need to change CV29 or turn off Railcom itself as RailCom Plus needs Railcom to work. But Railcom is independent of the added decoder recognition functionality in RailCom Plus, and will still function perfectly when Railcom Plus is turned off in the decoder. After all, that is the state of play for decoders that have Railcom but not RailCom Plus such as ESU's LokPilot 3, or locos with RailCom sender modules installed in parallel with a Railcom compatible but incapable decoder, such as ESU's Loksound 3.5 where Railcom capability can be grafted on by fitting a Lenz or ESU Railcom Sender module.

Edited December 24, 2016 by GoingUnderground

[blueeighties]

Good morning Keith.Yes, I came to the same conclusion last night. Disabling Railcom on both decoders will solve the issue. I'll sort that later after our first Christmas Eve viewing line up of Indiana Jones is finished :-)

[GoingUnderground]

Good morning Keith.Yes, I came to the same conclusion last night. Disabling Railcom on both decoders will solve the issue. I'll sort that later after our first Christmas Eve viewing line up of Indiana Jones is finished :-)

You've got it wrong.

 

You DON'T disable Railcom. Leave it alone, it is not the cause of the problem.

 

You disable RailCom Plus on the decoders in question. by changing CV28. as I described above.

[blueeighties]

Sorry I do apologise. Merry Christmas to you too.

[Guest 40-something]

Sorry I do apologise. Merry Christmas to you too.

How dare you be wrong :-)

[GoingUnderground]

Sorry I do apologise. Merry Christmas to you too.

No problem,

 

And I apologise if i sounded rude. I just wanted to make sure that you realised it was RailCom PLUS that needed to be turned off.

[blueeighties]

No problem,

 

And I apologise if i sounded rude. I just wanted to make sure that you realised it was RailCom PLUS that needed to be turned off.

Lol, no problem Keith, I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

 

All the best.

 

Lee.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Piko have added another 3 Premium train sets, with SmartControl included; making a total of 6 different sets in the range.....

 

http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=301&vw_id=288&vw_name=detail

 

Could be more dealer "box splitting" in prospect?

 

 

 

.

[GoingUnderground]

You missed the new accessory for the SmartControl system, the Piko Lok Netz converter, which looks like an enhanced version of the existing ESU L.Net Module which lets you use Loconet slave tbrottles and occupancy detection with ECoS. The Piko Lok Netz converter has 4 ports wbereas the L.Net module only has 2 - an indication of additional functionality, or just a recognition that 2 ports wasn't enough?

 

I wonder if that means that there were problems getting the onboard LocoNet port working, or just s recognition that serious users would want to connect more than one eligible LocoNet device?

Edited January 12, 2017 by GoingUnderground

[Ron Ron Ron]

You missed the new accessory for the SmartControl system, the Piko Lok Netz converter.....

 

 

I didn't miss it Keith. I wasn't sure what it was for, so thanks for the info.

 

As you've probably seen, they are also offering a new accessory decoder for servo drives.

[GoingUnderground]

A bit of internet "Binging" finds this link to the Piko HO 2017 New Items leaflet on the Gaugemaster website: http://www.gaugemaster.com/news/pdfs/Piko99517HOScaleNewItems.pdf

 

On page 8 of the leaflet there is the following description of the the Lok Netz Converter:

"

55044

PIKO Lok-Netz Converter

Mit Hilfe des PIKO Lok-Netz Converters kann die PIKO SmartBox® in ein LocoNet® Netzwerk eingebunden werden.

 

Der Adapter bietet vier Anschlussbuchsen und wird direkt über die PIKO SmartBox® mit bis zu 500 mA Strom versorgt.

 

(LocoNet® ist eingetragenes Warenzeichen von Digitrax Inc, Norcross Ga., US)

"

 

which I believe translates as:

"55044 PIKO LoK Netz Converter
 

With the aid of the PIKO LocoNet converter, the PIKO SmartBox® can be integrated into a LocoNet® Network.
 

The adapter provides four connection sockets and is directly connected to the PIKO SmartBox® and can supply up to 500 mA current.
 

(LocoNet® is a registered trademark of Digitrax Inc, Norcross Ga., US)"

 

This is slightly ambiguous. It could mean that you can use the SmartControl as a slave throttle in a Loconet system, (but why have 4 ports?). Alternatively, and this is what I think is more likely, like it's very close cousin, the ESU L.Net module, it will facilitate the use of multiple LocoNet slave throttles and occupancy detection modules with the SmartControl system in the same way that the L.Net module does for the ESU ECoS.

 

Will ESU release a 4 port version of their L.Net module or will it be Piko only, like the SmartControl System itself has been to date? We have only to wait until 1st February for the Nurnberg Toy Fair to find out, unless someone breaks ESU's embargo before then.

 

Piko and ESU do seem to be co-operating a lot. Piko also have as new in 2017 their version of the ESU "Dynamometer car" http://www.esu.eu/en/products/engineering-edition/coaches-and-wagons-in-h0/test-coach-ehg-388/ , see page 9 of the Piko 2017 New Items leaflet. The difference between the current ESU version and the Piko one seems to be that instead of having an LCD screen in the wagon, it outputs its data via WiFi, and offers the option of reading the data on a PC or on an Android smartphone with its own app. Again, will ESU replace their existing version with the new one? 

Edited January 12, 2017 by GoingUnderground