North British Railway 6 Wheel Coaches.

[nigelb]

right  1  coat of royal blue   done  damm it dried fast  so now  1 coat of ford burgundy over  a grey primer and grey  / royal blue  is now drying       also  a coat of  red oxide  dusted on  with a  blue  coat  thats  just about dry  so will  mist  some burgundy over  then  take some pics  tomorrow 

 

going to  have to take the pics  in day light  although  you can tell the difference in the flesh so to speak  the  colours all look the same  with the flash

Edited September 5, 2016 by nigelb

[nigelb]

First  attempts  at  getting the colour  the 1st pic  has a red oxide  base coat  the  right half  then had 2 coats of royal blue    then when dry overal one coat of ford burgundy

 

the second pic has a base coat of grey primer  and the left site has the blue undercoats 

TBH  the red undercoat and red straight on top had  the best appearance   even with just the one coat

 

also been playing with the chassis i have invested in some 62C NBR Brake van running board  brackets  they are lovely little castings and only need a slight fetttle to fit  corrrectly

[Shez]

Good progress Nigel, I like the idea of using the brackets to strengthen the steps.

 

Your lake colour looks pretty convincing. On a previous posts subject of lining, my copy of an NBR livery register suggests the following. Originally the lining on all coaches was quarter inch gold leaf, but by the outbreak of WW1 this had been replaced with yellow paint. In the period post WW1 up to grouping while lining of express bogie coaches was retained, local and suburban coaches were often left unlined when repainted. (it suggest a combination of economy measures and a shortage of skilled labour - some NBR goods locos were repainted without lining in this period) There is also a suggestion that the ends were black in this period, but this is disputed. So it all depends on what period your coaches are in. After 1923 they went into LNER livery but this would take time. 

 

Are you aware that Guilplates do some appropriate transfers? They don't have a website but their is an e mail on the GOG website. 

 

Last weekend Jamie and I were at Telford with his Lancaster Green Ayre layout. We took down some of the etches, and the Scottish societies stand kindly let us display my partially completed first. While there I came across JPL Models from Manchester who have a wide range of very reasonably priced castings that may be a possible source of parts. Not actually NBR but close enough to look convincing at a normal distance. Once again they don't have a website but tend to be a O gauge shows. 

 

Jamie and I will have some more etches available at Scotgog at Linlithgow in October.

 

Mark

[jamie92208]

We also have a small stock of etches available though postage is expensive.  I will be operating on a layout at Warley in November and will be able to have some etches there if anyone wants one. I could also do the same at Wakefield the weekend before Warley.

 

Jamie

[PeterR]

Hi,

 

Nice work Nigel - the are looking good.

 

Re Guilplates, the 4mm versions are available from Ian Terrell, and can be seen on his website   Link  http://www.nbr4mm.co.uk/other_suppliers/guilplates.htm

 

That site also has details to contact Guilplates as well.

 

You were earlier asking about lining - I think that the colours would be as the Midland Railway - that is straw for third class and possibly gold for First class.

 

Yours Peter

Edited September 7, 2016 by PeterR

[NBR906]

Hi,

 

Re Guilplates, the 4mm versions are available from Ian Terrell, and can be seen on his website Link http://www.nbr4mm.co.uk/other_suppliers/guilplates.htm

 

That site also has details to contact Guilplates as well.

 

Just to correct the previous post, Guilplates transfers are not available from me, only direct through Guilplates themselves. I only posted information with images to make them more widely known.

Brgds

Ian

NBR 4mm Developments

www.nbr4mm.co.uk

Edited September 8, 2016 by NBR906

[nigelb]

have hit the buffers     trying to solder the sole bar to the  under frame  i  get  there but when i start to add the foot step supports  the W irons the springs the axle boxes  the footsteps   thing come un soldered   need to go back to the original plat  kit and  practice lol

[PeterR]

Hi Nigel,

 

You should be using different melting point solder for each operation, that way they can stay on, also have a look at the following topic

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50557-soldering-for-absolute-beginners/, note the comments re 'hot irons' for 'quick work', I would also add that 'pre tinning' the items could help.

 

The C&L website mentioned in the above thread can also help.

 

Also, and just a thought,  make sure that the soldering iron has sufficient wattage to give you the heat to quickly put the heat though your small items to plete before it spreads to the other bits of the underframe

 

 

Hope the above will help

 

Yours Peter

Edited September 22, 2016 by PeterR

[jamie92208]

have hit the buffers     trying to solder the sole bar to the  under frame  i  get  there but when i start to add the foot step supports  the W irons the springs the axle boxes  the footsteps   thing come un soldered   need to go back to the original plat  kit and  practice lol

Hi Nigel. Is it the solebar overlay that you are struggling with. If it is I put that on first as soon as I folded up the underframe. I tinned both the overlay and the solebar. Put flux on the underframe then just laid the solebar overlay on it and ran a hot iron over the surface of the overlay. Only after the overlays for the bufferbeams and solebars were on did I attempt to add any details. I added those with normal solder without any trouble. Also it's well worth reinforcing the step supports with a bit of thin brass wire. The supports are etched to scale width and have turned out to be a bit flimsy.

 

Jamie

[nigelb]

Cheers Jamie yes  you hit the nail on the head  I am used to   2 mm and 00  size bits  these 7mm  bits is  huge lol.  its  good that I got the  trial etches to  play with I will try using my lil gas iron brom behind the solebar just heating the  underframe up  I feel some sort of jig to have the tinned solebar  on the board  with the floor pan held in place  vertically   to   keep them in close contact

the step supports I  got some cast ones  that are very good

will take some pics  when I   try 

[jamie92208]

Cheers Jamie yes  you hit the nail on the head  I am used to   2 mm and 00  size bits  these 7mm  bits is  huge lol.  its  good that I got the  trial etches to  play with I will try using my lil gas iron brom behind the solebar just heating the  underframe up  I feel some sort of jig to have the tinned solebar  on the board  with the floor pan held in place  vertically   to   keep them in close contact

the step supports I  got some cast ones  that are very good

will take some pics  when I   try

I tend to tack solder at one end then work my way along about an inch at a time. If you tack at more than one point you get bubbles in the solebar.

 

Jamie

[Shez]

I have been trying to upload some pictures of progress on the coaches - but windows 10 won't play - any ideas?

Edited September 29, 2016 by Shez

[ChrisN]

I have been trying to upload some pictures of progress on the coaches - but windows 10 won't play - any ideas?

 

Shez,

Are you using 'Reply with Attachments'?  If you are go down to the bottom left of the RMWeb screen and click on 'Change Theme'.  It should be 'RMWeb_2016'

[Shez]

 

Finally, with a little help from my son I have managed to sort things out, so here is the latest on the "rakes progress". I obtained both Jamie's wooden roofs, and Peters plastic ones from 62C to compare. I also wanted the roof to be able to be removed easily. I found the wooden roofs a little short and the plastic ones rather flimsy. Following a bit of thought I came up with the solution shown. I drilled through the plastic roofs and secured them to the wooden roofs using the lamps obtained from 62C. I then cut a piece of plasticard to go at each end of the roof just in from the edge to give it a tight fit between the brass ends. This has produced a secure, removable roof, with the wood adding to the general mass of the coach. 

 

 

 

The First has now overtaken the Brake Third even though it was started afterwards. The door vents have been added along with axle boxes, springs, and some parts of the under frame. ( a mix of Laurie Griffen, 62C, JPL, and some bits out of my scrap box) I think that following a bit more work it will be time to head for the paint shop before final detailing.

 

 

Things are taking time. As a semi scratch build, rather than the kits I am used to, I find that each stage is needing some thought on "how am I going to do this?"  The question of the commode handles cant be dodged much longer! However I am confident that once I have plotted the way through, subsequent builds will happen more quickly. The under frame for the All Third has just been started

Edited October 2, 2016 by Shez

[nigelb]

just invested in the Piranah 300  hold n fold  so with luck and a fair  wind  i should be back on the track of the brake third   in a couple of weeksbut beore then i will work on gettinf the sides  sorted

[jamie92208]

Just a quick reminder Mark and I will be at Scotgog in Linlithgow on this coming Saturday 15-10-16. We'll have a stock of 6 wheeler etches with us and will be with Pete Mullen on his 62C stand. I'll also have the draft artwork for the 7'6" Holmes bogie composite that Pete is going to release as a kit. If anyone is going come and see us.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Had a good day at Scotgog yesterday and Pete had 3 part finished 6 wheelers on his stand. It's nice to see them coming along. There's a 6cpt 3rd, then a salon and a 5 cpt 1st in this picture. Not the best of photos I'm afraid. In between chatting to lots of people I managed to continue with the artwork for the bogie composite which is coming along nicely.

The roofs are Peter's plastic ones that look well and he now has most of the fittings available.

 

Jamie

[Shez]

Those photos make me even more disappointing I was unable to go!

 

Good progress today. The brake third has caught up and indeed gone into the lead. Have done the various bits of gear on the end - simply used wire and stuff out of the scrap box, and some bits of laminated brass. No photo yet and I don't really know if it will show up until its painted. 

 

A couple of questions.

 

I have used the gas lamps from Peter at 62C. A copy of the works drawing for one of the coaches clearly shows a gas feeder pipe and regulator. However, no gas tanks are shown under the coach. Would it be generally agreed the coaches would have these?

 

On a side issue does anyone out there of an NBR persuasion know if any of the  D class 0-6-0T (later LNER J83) carried the lined black goods livery towards the end of NBR days? Particularly the unfitted locos. I know newly built or re built goods locos were painted this way from about 1915 but the D class were not re built until after the LNER took over. 

[sir douglas]

for that last question, it would be better to ask in http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/72-uk-prototype-questions/

[PeterR]

Hi Shez,

 

Re your question re gas tank(s)  - first a copy from your note --

 

'A copy of the works drawing for one of the coaches clearly shows a gas feeder pipe and regulator. However, no gas tanks are shown under the coach'

 

G W Sewell in his drawings for the all 3rd 4 wheel, 5 compartment coach shows a single gas tank,  8' 8" long centered about the centre of the coach length, just outside the centre longitudinal centre beams of the coach underframe, and approx 18" diameter, being down the longitudinal line of the coach of the coach (thus between the centre wheels and the end wheels, and centred in that space). Most of the cylinder(s) (would the first class have two cylinders I wonder?) are visible; the upper edge being at the lower edge of the buffer beam.  The Westinghouse brake cylinder could thus be hidden, certainly from one side if there was only on cylinder; I wonder of there was a charging point on both sides?.

 

There is some confirmation via a photo of a Caledonian Railway coach, (Drummond being a CME of both railways) where the gas cylinder is visible between the centre axle and the end axle, filling virtually all  the space there., and as the tank curvature can be seen (of the tank), to a degree,  confirming my thoughts - the CR didn't show gas cylinders on their (surviving) carriage drawings either.!

 

Possibly as the lighting installation was by 'Mr Pintsch' and thus I presume the railway did not bother adding the details of the installation.

 

Yours Peter

 

I checked the 6 wheel coach drawings and the gas tanks do NOT appear on them. Thus I would expect the sizes to be carried forwards.

Edited October 20, 2016 by PeterR

[DOCJACOB]

Regarding D class could always e mail the NBR Study Group. I would hazard a guess no, just recovering WW1, and the grouping was imminent so nothing to be gained in tarting things up in lined black?

 

Unless the Group photo archive has evidence?

[Shez]

Thanks for that invaluable information PeterR. I will get some appropriate bits of tube and add the tanks.

 

Thanks DOCJacob. I am a study group member, but have manged to forget my forum password! 

 

Mark

[nigelb]

Thanks for that invaluable information PeterR. I will get some appropriate bits of tube and add the tanks.

 

Thanks DOCJacob. I am a study group member, but have manged to forget my forum password! 

 

Mark

not the best of pics  but this is my attempt at the gas  cylinders and brackets measurements taken from the sewel dwgs

[NBR906]

Don't fit those tanks just yet.........

 

I am on holiday just now so I cannot refer to my drawings but link below is to images of the surviving NBR 6-wheel chassis at Bo'ness on the NBRSG forum.

http://www.nbrstudygroup.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=116

(at least I hope the link works as using the wife's notebook while she is not looking!)

 

Definitely two gas tanks, not on the centre line but fitted within the framework of the chassis.

Note that the tanks are shorter than those on the 4-wheel carriage.

Care also has to be taken as to location of Westinghouse brake cylinder and actuator as well as the Vacuum cylinder (where fitted).

Best surviving works drawing is for the brake carriages and show Westinghouse equipment offset due to the guards equipment.

 

Will try and post further when we return.

Brgds

Ian

[nigelb]

Ian that's fantastic looks like i got my efforts about right  and the pic of the centre  W irens will help get the  brackets right as well