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ICI Hoppers from Hatton's in Partnership with Oxford Rail

Andy Y

By Andy Y,
in Hattons

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pharrc20

pharrc20

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

I've no idea where and how the TOPS yellow plastic number plates were produced but I do think it was very quick. I picked up an SMBP plate at Collectors corner - there were hundreds of them - because they were never used with the fleet being split 60% Esso 40% BPO in 1976 soon after TOPS was introduced and all the wagons had the new SMO or BP plates. I'm sure the plate I have never went near a wagon and serendipitously it is a wagon I photographed. 

 

Incidentally these plates are relatively complex. The number is deep in the back of the plastic, somehow painted/coloured separately to the backing and then all is covered with more plastic. 

 

Paul

Yes  sounds about right. Another friend of a friend has one of the ICIM ones for these hoppers and he let me have a look at it take some photos and as you say the letters and numbers appear to be buried in amongst the layers of plastic. Would that sort of production have been outsourced or done in house somewhere within BR I wonder?

 

Cheers Paul

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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On 28/10/2021 at 16:53, Yorks1 said:

There is a photo on Flickr showing BLI 19092 dumped at Crewe c1994, this may be one of them.

Further wagon on eBay, currently at an eye watering £80. 

 

Regards Colin

 

Wagon sold today for £102 plus the p+p with 9 bids and 4 bidders this time.

 

Cheers Paul

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Barry O

Barry O

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, pharrc20 said:

Wagon sold today for £102 plus the p+p with 9 bids and 4 bidders this time.

 

Cheers Paul

Lummy..  our rakes on Chapel en le Frith  (Central) will have to be identified for exhibition insurance purposes at these prices!

 

Baz

Edited by Barry O
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Yorks1

Yorks1

Posted
Posted

Air braked hoppers. Possible photo on Flickr showing 19000? in service with air brakes. CAR Brake Van B954650 behind 20141 & 20077 at Piccadilly, dated 18-5-1984. The date might be a bit early for the trials, has anybody any further information ? Just seems a bit odd to have a CAR van immediately behind the locomotives. 

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pharrc20

pharrc20

Posted
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14 hours ago, Yorks1 said:

Air braked hoppers. Possible photo on Flickr showing 19000? in service with air brakes. CAR Brake Van B954650 behind 20141 & 20077 at Piccadilly, dated 18-5-1984. The date might be a bit early for the trials, has anybody any further information ? Just seems a bit odd to have a CAR van immediately behind the locomotives. 

At that time the pairs of 20s had only just started in traffic on the hoppers and due to a ruling I was told that the guard was not permitted to ride in the rear cab of the trailing 20, and so they had to use brakevans for a while until this rule was changed and/or the need for a guard to travel on such trains was no longer needed. So it was not unusual to see the brakevan immediately behind the locos during this time. I don't think that work to convert ICIM 19000 started until late 1980s when it was due for overhaul at Avenue works.

 

Cheers Paul

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Yorks1

Yorks1

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Thanks for the reply Paul. In your Hopper book on p71 you have a photo of 19000 already converted in Dec-1985, it would be interesting to know if this was the beginning or end of the trial and whether any of the other's you noted at Avenue workshops (date ?) got converted.

 

Regards

 

Colin

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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5 hours ago, Yorks1 said:

Thanks for the reply Paul. In your Hopper book on p71 you have a photo of 19000 already converted in Dec-1985, it would be interesting to know if this was the beginning or end of the trial and whether any of the other's you noted at Avenue workshops (date ?) got converted.

 

Regards

 

Colin

Yes I was thinking it was late 1985, when my good friend Brian Arnold managed to get the photo of it parked up in the headshunt end siding near Avenue works. However, I have no information on how the wagon was tested or even if it went to the RTC at Derby for type-testing.

 

Suffice to say the next time it was seen was at the September 1986 Diamond Jubilee open day/s when it was on show at Winnington works with newly named class 47, 47365 "Diamond Jubilee", where the air-brake equipment had clearly been removed and the wagon returned back to standard with vacuum-brakes - photo also in book.

 

I know I made reference to their being other wagons at Avenue works in the process of being converted. But I was going off what I had been verbally told when doing the book and so far no photo or notes evidence has emerged to support this.

 

Unfortunately, I knew anything about these open days in 1986 otherwise I would have pestered my Dad and or Uncle to take me.

 

Cheers Paul

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GordonC

GordonC

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2 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Hatton's may be gunshy on that.   They still had stock of the very late patterns until recently.

 

Think that just shows there was more demand for the earlier eras and wagons without the poor weathering effects rather than poor sales potential for the model overall

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Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

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3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Hatton's may be gunshy on that.   They still had stock of the very late patterns until recently.

 

34 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

Think that just shows there was more demand for the earlier eras and wagons without the poor weathering effects rather than poor sales potential for the model overall

 

Some form of crowdfunding-ish arrangement.

Put your money where your mouth is, I'd be up for a pre TOPS rake.

 

Mike.

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cctransuk

cctransuk

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Ah, I wasn't aware there is a new tranche due, no mention via Hattons.

 

Mike.

 

I think that he is referring to the new version of pre-payment.

 

CJI.

Edited by cctransuk
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pharrc20

pharrc20

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Prices vary for single wagons between £36 and £78 at present on that auction site. Last I heard, Hatton's owned all of the hopper tooling outright and so not sure what would happen if they wanted to rerun these models using a different factory? I haven't seen any announcements about new batches but I reckon gone are the days of £24 or £25 priced models.

Cheers Paul

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Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

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18 hours ago, pharrc20 said:

I haven't seen any announcements about new batches but I reckon gone are the days of £24 or £25 priced models.

 

Yes, me too, old tooling, paid for by the first run, wagons used on a specific route, limited sphere of operation, I reckon closer to £15.

 

Mike.

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pharrc20

pharrc20

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16 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Yes, me too, old tooling, paid for by the first run, wagons used on a specific route, limited sphere of operation, I reckon closer to £15.

 

Mike.

I believe that c.20k models were produced in all based on what a Hatton's employee told me some years ago so a thousand per model code. Given the high amount of resales on the bay, they seem to have a good interest still. I was thinking more like £40 to £50 if they produce more as the world is a different place than it was back in 2018. I will keep tinkering and modifying the ones I have to expand my fleet for my needs.

 

Paul

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Enterprisingwestern

Enterprisingwestern

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1 hour ago, pharrc20 said:

I believe that c.20k models were produced in all based on what a Hatton's employee told me some years ago so a thousand per model code. Given the high amount of resales on the bay, they seem to have a good interest still. I was thinking more like £40 to £50 if they produce more as the world is a different place than it was back in 2018. I will keep tinkering and modifying the ones I have to expand my fleet for my needs.

 

Paul

 

I hope everyone realised my tongue was firmly in my cheek!

The model railway manufacturing world seems to have polarised quite considerably lately, I obviously don't know which camp Hattons would have a foot in, but, plucking manufacturers out of the air, if it were an Accurascale/Revolution product it would likely be at the £40 end of the market, and if it were a Hornby/Bachmann product it would be at the £80 end of the market.

Someone mentioned Oxford Rail, can't see it myself as the cost of re tooling the bogie side frames to make them too narrow, replacing the wheels with short axles with the wrong diameter wheels on, and adding lumps to the underneath of the body mouldings to interfere with the correctly sized wheels being fitted would be too expensive I would imagine.

Mike.

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Steamport Southport

Steamport Southport

Posted
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16 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I hope everyone realised my tongue was firmly in my cheek!

The model railway manufacturing world seems to have polarised quite considerably lately, I obviously don't know which camp Hattons would have a foot in, but, plucking manufacturers out of the air, if it were an Accurascale/Revolution product it would likely be at the £40 end of the market, and if it were a Hornby/Bachmann product it would be at the £80 end of the market.

Someone mentioned Oxford Rail, can't see it myself as the cost of re tooling the bogie side frames to make them too narrow, replacing the wheels with short axles with the wrong diameter wheels on, and adding lumps to the underneath of the body mouldings to interfere with the correctly sized wheels being fitted would be too expensive I would imagine.

Mike.

 

Erm, Oxford Rail made them and they were also sold on their website.....

 

 

Jason

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Steamport Southport

Steamport Southport

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24 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that you overlooked the irony / sarcasm contained in the post to which you responded.

 

CJI.

 

I didn't.

 

I just wish people would stop knocking certain manufacturers with daft comments when other manufacturers get things wrong as well. Random people could look in a thread such as this and think the models are wrong.

 

 

 

Jason

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