RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2015 For some time there has been talk of a new siding being built near Helwith Bridge, between Settle and Horton, to cater for stone traffic from the two active granite quarries that are nearby. These are Arcow and Dry Rigg quarries, both owned by Lafarge. The National Park want to reduce the amount of road traffic in the area by putting over 200,000 tons a year of traffic onto the railways. Apparently the stone is in demand as it's a perfect top dressing for new roads having very good friction qualities. The project has been on the go for some years. Initially it was proposed that the siding be at Hellifield by the West Coast Railways depot, but this would still have meant road haulage down the Ribble Valley to get the stone out. They are now building a siding on the west side of the down main where the old triangular junction was for Arcow and Foredale quarries. It will be a trailing connection to the down line and trains will then have to go to Blea Moor to run round. Apparently modern stock wouldn't fit round the tight curves of the old triangular layout. Arcow Granite quarry was rail connected till the 60's, sharing a connection with the adjacent Foredale limestone quarry and I've got one of the works plate of the Hudswell Clark tank loco that worked and was cut up there. I have seen a reference in one of the Railway mags to the fact that this project is now ongoing and that the siding may open soon. I'll try and add some links to background material in due course, but if anyone is in the area, some photos would be of interest. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 29, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2015 Here's some background from the Friends of the S & C. http://www.foscl.org.uk/recent-news/quarry-traffic-rail Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2015 Cheers for that, who would've imagined this 30 years ago (and I'm speaking as someone who'd generally love to go back in time rather than forward)? More running around at Blea Moor I see, wonder if it'll ever happen on the same day as the logs, could be an interesting place to find a bit of fellside to sit on and watch trains at work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted May 29, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2015 Cheers for that, who would've imagined this 30 years ago (and I'm speaking as someone who'd generally love to go back in time rather than forward)? More running around at Blea Moor I see, wonder if it'll ever happen on the same day as the logs, could be an interesting place to find a bit of fellside to sit on and watch trains at work. It's funny that this has come up now, after I saw the reference in IIRC Rail Magazine. I've just done the first draft of an article on the Private Owner Wagons that were owned by all those quarries. It's planned to be published in the Midland railway Society Journal in about 6 months. I did the research when I was modelling Long Preston and want to get the information published somewhere. Blea Moor used to be a great place as the Lon Meg trains used to exchange crews there so you would have two hopper trains in the loops with 9F's on and main line traffic coming through. My late father taught a lady who grew up in one of the cottages there, her dad Willie Davidson was a ganger there. They used to do their weekly shopping at Settle on market day then catch the train to Ribblehead before waiting for the next freight to take them up to Blea Moor in the guards van. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 3, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2015 I saw a reference in one of the magazines that work has started on the new siding. If anyone is passing either on a train or just in the area it would be great if they could post some photos of the works. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 13, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 The latest Rail (issue 780) has a news piece on Page 23 saying that work is now under way.. It gets the names of the two quarries correct, (Dry Rigg and Arcow) but gets the location wrong mentioning Horton in Ribblesdale which rather confusingly has another large quarry which also used to be rail connected. There is also a mention in the Regional News on P26 which also gets the location wrong. Despite these errors it is good to hear that work is underway. The price tag of £5 million does seem a tad steep for a single trailing siding does seem a tad steep. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 Find something that doesn't seem a tad steep... Any idea what the signalling / control arrangements for it will be? Similar to the sidings at Ribblehead? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Is the £5 million just the cost of the siding, or does it include the means of linking quarries and railhead (conveyor or new/upgraded road) and the loading of the trains (front-loaders/ overhead bunker)? I've heard the figure of £1 million for manufacturing and installing a single set of points, so can see how it could soon build up to £5 million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 13, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 Is the £5 million just the cost of the siding, or does it include the means of linking quarries and railhead (conveyor or new/upgraded road) and the loading of the trains (front-loaders/ overhead bunker)? I've heard the figure of £1 million for manufacturing and installing a single set of points, so can see how it could soon build up to £5 million. I don't know what the loading arrangements are to be. As far as I know it's going to be a simple trailing siding alongside the northbound line as the original triangular chord was too sharply curved for modern bogie stock. Trains will come up from the south empty, reverse into the siding and then presumably be locked out of the intermediate block between Settle Junction and Horton In Ribblesdale. They will then have to go up to Blea Moor to run round like the log trains do. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Looking at the view on Google Earth, if they're building the siding parallel to the main line, then they've got quite a lot of earthworks to do, especially as the middle of the former triangle looks lower than the land around it. They'll also have to build some sort of road and concrete loading pad; with all that, I can see a couple of million disappearing very quickly. A few years back, some former tracks at Fratton goods yard, Portsmouth, were fettled up with a new concrete slab between two tracks to allow road vehicles easy access. My recollection was that this fairly simple job cost a million or so without any track works being involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi all, A useful document relating to this... http://pacsplanning.yorkshiredales.org.uk/Horton%20in%20Ribblesdale%20C44/101/C_44_101E_ASS.pdf Shame that the full report is considered 'too large' to make available on the net. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi all, A useful document relating to this... http://pacsplanning.yorkshiredales.org.uk/Horton%20in%20Ribblesdale%20C44/101/C_44_101E_ASS.pdf Shame that the full report is considered 'too large' to make available on the net. Up to 2021, then quarrying ceases? That sounds like a very short time. Removing some of the lorries sounds good but if it's only for a handful of years is it really worth it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Up to 2021, then quarrying ceases? That sounds like a very short time. Removing some of the lorries sounds good but if it's only for a handful of years is it really worth it? There have been quite a lot of schemes like this around the place over the years; most usually serving open-cast coal mines. Whilst the project is of relatively short duration, the tonnages involved are fairly significant, amounting to close to a train load per day; I suspect their looking beyond their traditional market in the urban areas of Yorkshire and Lancashire, which couldn't be easily served by road. Bear in mind that the product being quarried isn't bulk aggregate, such as is moved in enormous quantities from the Mendips, but a much more specialised product, attracting a correspondingly higher price. As an aside, it seems as though the allegedly rare Great Crested Newts have already set up camp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 13, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi all, A useful document relating to this... http://pacsplanning.yorkshiredales.org.uk/Horton%20in%20Ribblesdale%20C44/101/C_44_101E_ASS.pdf Shame that the full report is considered 'too large' to make available on the net. Thanks Thanks for that it made very interesting reading. The aerial photo showing the proposed route is also useful as it shows that they are building the new siding some way to the north of the old triangle. The old rail access was parallel to the road from the bottom of the picture. The view of the old Foredale limestone quarry is also interesting as both of it's inclines are visible. The main self acting one that shows as a limestone scar running up the hill and the shallower small one that linked the upper bench of the later quarry to the main incline. That used overhead rope haulage for the tubs with a piece of bent steel to connect the tub to the rope. There was a small loco on the upper bench. Back to the new siding, I didn't realise that Arcow was due to close this year and that Dryrigg only has another 6 years after that. I wonder whether they will both close in the end if they are a national resource for the specialised stone. There is a long history of quarries in the area staying open for much longer than originally envisaged. Personally, having grown up in the area, I'm in favour of the quarries which provide much needed employment for the people I went to school with. Jamie Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi Jamie, I also know the area well - not from living but from visiting. I have been climbing in the old Foredale quarry - lots of awkward climbs and should have become an outdoor climbing centre. There are some climbs that either start or finish on the line of the 2 inclines. Last time I was there was in the 80's and bits of the gear that operated the inclines were still around. I remember being asked to tie off a rope and was pointed to a bit of metal sticking up out of the ground. It was an old bit of rail that had been set into the ground and then cemented in place. On the upper bench there were the remains of track - but it was mainly rotten sleepers. The various quarries have all had extended life given to them at one time or another and I expect that will carry on. Of course, now that there are so many NIMBY's settled in the area it will become harder for that to continue. Fortunately both the local authority and the National Park managers realise that the quarries mean work for locals and income for them.. However, as time has passed, the number of people employed by the quarries has fallen year on year. This makes it harder for them to resist public demands about closing the quarries. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 14, 2015 I get rather irritated when someone starts crying "NIMBY" every time someone is against some sort of "development". Disliking the idea of a rapidly-increasing hole in such a location sounds entirely reasonable, particularly as the scale gets larger and faster and the number of jobs gets smaller (to the point where comparing it to the quarrying of the past isn't really meaningful). It's really as biased as dismissing doing anything altogether. Now I'm not saying "Stop now!" (and I'm surprised that it sounds like it's nearer finished than I thought, although as said an extension wouldn't be a huge surprise), just bothered by the way the objectors to the objectors object. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 14, 2015 You buy a house near a quarry at a reduced price because it gets noise and dust from the quarry then try and shut the quarry to improve your air and have the noise abated, bit like people buying houses near a preserved line and complaining about trains and crowds...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 14, 2015 You buy a house near a quarry at a reduced price because it gets noise and dust from the quarry then try and shut the quarry to improve your air and have the noise abated, bit like people buying houses near a preserved line and complaining about trains and crowds...... Sometimes, yes, those are the genuine NIMBYs. The ones who couldn't care less just as long as it's not next to them and wouldn't care if it was next to them if they were moving somewhere else. Most of the time though it gets thrown at anyone who doesn't like any development for any reason in a very dismissve fashion, suggesting that there's no possibility there could be any good reason for disliking it. Anyway I've managed to shove the thread off topic, and we're not even talking about a development that bothers me (I'm looking forward to seeing the siding). Sorry about that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissRailPassion Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 New (additional)signalling at Blea moor will be in operation from next Tuesday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted October 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2015 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted October 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2015 The new signals at Blea Moor were bagged when I visited on 30th September 2015. Steam charter photo fans are going to 'love' those new LED signals....... Also it looks like the loop is now bi-directional when it wasn't previously - can anyone confirm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 20, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 20, 2015 Steam charter photo fans are going to 'love' those new LED signals....... Also it looks like the loop is now bi-directional when it wasn't previously - can anyone confirm? It looks that way to me, presumably so that trains coming north to run round, can go straight into the loop when they come of the single line section over the viaduct then the loco can come back down the Up Main. Those pictures bring back many happy memories of my one and only main line cab ride which started at the north end of the up loop and after a long time sitting at the south end (by the water column) finished at Settle. It's a pity that the down loop has been removed though. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 24, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2015 Apparently the new pointwork is being installed this weekend. Sam Eastwood (Sir Douglas of this parish) alerted me to this link from the local rag for the area. The Craven herald to the uninitiated. http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/news/13891675.Work_to_reinstate_quarry_link_at_Horton_in_Ribblesdale_reaches_major_milestone/?ref=fbshr Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 14, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2015 I had to go up to near Settle today so took the opportunity to go up to Helwith bridge to try and see progress on the ground. The weather was poor with rain and low cloud but I managed to get the photos below. I'l apologise in advance for the quality and will blame the conditions. I drove up the Arcow quarry access rack then up to Foredale cottages. From there I walked along in front of the cottages to the old incline that came down from Foredale Quarry to the kilns at the bottom of the hill. From there you can get a good view of the loading sidings within the quarry and see the trackbed curving round to the north to join the main line. To my surprise there was some trak laid. In the background you can just make out the site of the original sidings. You can't see the pointwork and new signals on the Down main which are hidden by the bund of tailings. A closer view of the new trackwork. Two views of the old incline trackbed. This is very different from when I knew it and tried to model it in the late 60's. There was I believe a landslide on the top section that threatened the cottages o much landscaping has been done. Also the kilns at the base have been demolished. I then went down to the visitors car park in the quarry and got these two shots of the track work and stockpiled materials. As I was leaving I saw three deer with white rumps above me near the old incline but my camera decided it didn't want to play in the cold and wet. I've never seen deer in the area before. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 14, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2015 Just one thought that's occurred to me there's no shortage of ballast. As an aside I've got a bag of fine Arcow granite that the quarry manger gave to me for model railway ballast back in the 60's when he was a neighbour. Unfortunately it's the wrong colour for Green Ayre. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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