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Modern 1:76 Scale Colour Light Signals




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#1 modelmaker87

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 18:36

Hi Guys,

Its been sometime since I built a signal for Widnes Vine Yard layout - the blue SPAD it was. In fact I have not seen that signal installed yet other than the images that Dave posted here on RMWeb some time ago. Now I'm building what will be the final signal for this fine layout, a multi colour single aspect. As is customary I make all the mechanical components and Mike Turner does all the electrical stuff, soldering wires and wotnot. This suits me as I'm electrically retarded. :P

The choice that Dave and Mike arrived at for the type of signal they wished me to build was the new Dorman design. I commenced this build which had a rectangular post. I built a fully telescoping post to satisfy the prototype requirement to adjust the sight line of the signal by altering the height during installation at its final location on VY. This provides a very accurate sighting as close to the prototype as you can get on a model, whereas having a fixed dimension mast/post it is impossible to position the signal at the correct line of sight with the oncoming train drivers line of sight, not prototypical. The other advantage of having a telescopic post is that the signal can be 'un-planted' if you prefer to do that when the layout is on travel between storage and expo. I know some layouts use that idea.

FWIW the image attached shows this rectangular post, unfortunately after having made it and moving on to other areas of the Dorman design I was told that Dorman did not get the contract and it was back to the 'standard' round post at 6 inches diameter.

PW_2995_VY_signal components_1.jpg

This signal post means very little but it does get this thread started.... ;)

Cheers, Tony

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#2 Horsetan

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 20:53

*rubs hands together in invisible soap* :D

#3 modelmaker87

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 01:33

I guess the real build starts here. Image shows the first two components for the signal. Target Board and shroud. Target board dimensions
are 16.25mm (0.640") x 9.625mm (0.380") and .254mm (.010") thick.

RMWeb_1_3084.jpg

Soldered.

RMWeb_Shroud-Target_Board_3114.jpg

I offer this 2nd image to show the difference in hole sizes. Info on the image.

RMWeb_Shroud-Target_Board_3119.jpg

Cheers, Tony

#4 Pete Harvey

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 09:14

Tony

That is looking good have you used brass or thin PCB for the Target Board?

Pete

#5 modelmaker87

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:37

Tony

That is looking good have you used brass or thin PCB for the Target Board?

Pete


Pete, on this signal as well as the SPAD I made, 10 thou PCB. The other seven and gantry, was 10 thou brass.

Cheers, Tony

#6 Removed a/c_jim s-w

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:41

What do you use for the actual cutting Tone? Some kind of guillotine?

Cheers

Jim

#7 Horsetan

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:41

I like the look of the Dorman heads - it's almost as if the old searchlight heads that used to do duty on the ER (particularly York and Newscastle), East Anglian and LTS routes had come back with a vengeance!

#8 modelmaker87

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:56

What do you use for the actual cutting Tone? Some kind of guillotine?

Cheers

Jim


No Jim. My method is as follows.

I scribe a line slightly larger than the width of the target board across a piece of 10 thou PCB stock using a pair of odd leg calipers. Then I use the reverse side of an old Swann Norton No 10 blade that I have ground with a hook, as it were, you know the Scrawker" tool..? like that but smaller and finer. I cut with this blade and break thru both copper sides. Then I continue to dig into the stuff, whatever its called. I don't go right thru it but just enough that I can then take the target board between vise jaws and snap it off. Thereafter its filing straight and square all sides to make a perfect rectangle to prototype dims.

Cheers, Tony

#9 modelmaker87

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 10:59

No Jim. My method is as follows.

I scribe a line slightly larger than the width of the target board across a piece of 10 thou PCB stock using a pair of odd leg calipers. Then I use the reverse side of an old Swann Norton No 10 blade that I have ground with a hook, as it were, you know the Scrawker" tool..? like that but smaller and finer. I cut with this blade and break thru both copper sides. Then I continue to dig into the stuff, whatever its called. I don't go right thru it but just enough that I can then take the target board between vise jaws and snap it off. Thereafter its filing straight and square all sides to make a perfect rectangle to prototype dims.

Cheers, Tony


Jim, maybe I wasn't clear on one aspect of my description above. I wrote "I cut with this blade and break thru both copper sides. " I should have said that I cut thru the copper from both sides and then I set up and dig into the internal material. I think its fibre glass, it sure wears out a tool edge.

Cheers, Tony

#10 modelmaker87

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:02

I like the look of the Dorman heads - it's almost as if the old searchlight heads that used to do duty on the ER (particularly York and Newscastle), East Anglian and LTS routes had come back with a vengeance!


Don't forget Horsetan, the shrouds or heads can be different lengths and have larger or smaller wraps about their axis to protect the illuminated aspect against the sun, which changes according to seasons. These shrouds can be rotated about the axis also to adjust for sun angle. My model shrouds don't rotate though. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cheers, Tony

#11 Removed a/c_jim s-w

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Posted 30 September 2010 - 11:03

Hi Tone

thanks for that, I thought you might have some clever thingie!

Cheers

Jim

#12 modelmaker87

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 12:38

After completing the target board/shroud assy I mail it to Mike Turner and wait for it to be returned with Mike's additions.
This is how it looks when I open the package. He sure does neat work.

RMWeb_LED_Reverse_side_3948.jpg

In the past when Mike and I decided to move on from the large 1/8 dia LED's that I had fitted in all the VY signals and which were
available at the time, to the next generation of available miniature surface mount LED's there was never a problem, but with this
larger multi colour LED there was. I'll explain this in my next posting when I have prepped a set of pix.

Cheers, Tony

#13 modelmaker87

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 01:34

I'll explain this in my next posting when I have prepped a set of pix.

Cheers, Tony


First image shows a bunch of rear covers I have cast from my master. These I thought would be fine for the next set of signals the guys
wanted me to build for our next layout - 'Badgers Cross".

RMWeb_Rear_Hsg_Covers_4691.jpg

But when I positioned one of these covers over the returned target board/shroud/LED assy, I got a surprise. The new LED was way larger
than the older design I used for the signal on VY and would not properly fit over the LED.

Unmodified LED.jpg

What to do.??? :unsureclear: :unsureclear: :unsureclear:

Later, Tony

#14 Pete Harvey

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 08:41

Tony

What ever you do it will look the part and do the job.

Pete

#15 modelmaker87

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 10:24

Tony

What ever you do it will look the part and do the job.

Pete


Pete, what I have done so far is take a file to the inside face of the cover and removed material, helped significantly. That wasn't
quite enough so I filed a little at a time off the solder and wires on the LED.

VY Signal_detail_LED_mods.jpg

This pretty much worked as can be seen here, about 4 or 5 thou to go and the cover will sit perfectly on the back of the target board. I talked
to Mike T about this. Soldering the wires to the sides of the LED won't work because the sides of the cover will interfere with the wires. Really
what we need is a smaller LED casing. At least the rear cover remains is still to the exact scale. This more or less takes care of the signal
head other than the plate that joins it to the post.

modified_LED&cover.jpg

Cheers, Tony

#16 Pete Harvey

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 15:27

Tony

What Glue has Mike / your self used to fix the Led to the pcb with?

Pete

#17 modelmaker87

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 17:05

Tony

What Glue has Mike / your self used to fix the Led to the pcb with?

Pete


No idea Pete, I just get the bit I have built returned in the mail with an LED stuck on and wired. Then I re-solder the wires as they break off thru handling. many many times. :D :D There is zero stress on the component so I'd guess he used CA. Mike will confirm when he starts reading this thread. If it does come off between now and getting it all together, I'll use CA for certain.

Cheers, Tony

#18 Pete Harvey

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 17:12

Ok thanks Tony.

Pete

#19 Mike Turner

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 20:28

Tony

What Glue has Mike / your self used to fix the Led to the pcb with?

Pete


Hi Pete

As Tone guessed it was CA. Procure PC09 gell adhesive by Bondtech. It's the best CA we have found and sticks like brown stuff to the bed linen. I scratched the rear face of the target board with the tip of a scalpel blade to give a better grip before fixing and you can make this out in some of Tony's extreme closeup images.

See ya

Mike

#20 43110andyb

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Posted 06 October 2010 - 20:45

modified_LED&cover.jpg

I love the sighting hole modelled on the side of the head. (can you see through it;);) Great work - following with interest.

#21 modelmaker87

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 13:33

I love the sighting hole modelled on the side of the head. (can you see through it;);) Great work - following with interest.


Yep, sure can.... B) But be sure to remove your sunglasses.

Back to the build. This signal was the very first of its type I had laid eyes on, courtesy of Mike Turner, of the new signals that are being
installed these days. During the months Mike and I have been talking about this signal for VY the design/s have already changed. I'm
not sure how much information I should provide here and will leave that to the discretion of Mike T. I have posted the image of the base
of the signal which I am working to. Not so much a base but a three legged affair. This presented a whole set of new challenges, a 100%
scratch build, right up my alley.

RMWeb_1962small.jpg

The first pair of parts I made. Nothing special really, an angled bracket and a leg which had to be machined at one end with a 5 degrees
angle on the end of it.

RMWeb_Leg_parts_4257.jpg

This image shows the parts joined, with the 5 degree angled leg end soldered to the rear of the angle. This provides what I would describe
as the tripod leg "spread' angle. The foundations for these legs is better described by the designers - Collis Eng.

http://www.collis.co...ntId=20&navi=20

RMWeb_leg_angle_4261.jpg

If Mike and Dave are going to cover these legs with a nice clean rectangular plate, that would be a bummer and I would be well ticked off.

Cheers, Tony

#22 Removed a/c_jim s-w

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 14:00

Hi Tone

I know you don't mind a little feedback and this is minor-est of minor things but when you set such a high standard...

Looking at your pics the square section has a square end and it's the bracket that takes up the 5 degree angle. I am sure the parts are going to be that tiny anyway so it probably doesn't matter

Cheers

Jim

#23 modelmaker87

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 14:53

Hi Tone

I know you don't mind a little feedback and this is minor-est of minor things but when you set such a high standard...

Looking at your pics the square section has a square end and it's the bracket that takes up the 5 degree angle. I am sure the parts are going to be that tiny anyway so it probably doesn't matter

Cheers

Jim


Hi Jim, Love feedback. Don't even think not to critique me if you see anything you find that you think isn't quite right let me know, it can only make me a better modeller. No worries. :unsure: :unsure:

I think the two images I posted needs a little explanation. The first shows the brass leg block with a 5 degree angle on its right hand side end. The image of the parts soldered is where I may have confused you, took me a few secs to see what I did too. The brass block has been turned 180 degrees in the soldered together pic meaning the 5 deg end got soldered to the rear of that angle. Make sense now Jim...?

The angles I formed to 90 degrees +/- a degree perhaps, I admit I eyed the angle. The brass legs I set up and machined with a 5 deg angle. When the whole assy is fitted together the legs then lay parallel to the ground which in turn tips the angles upwards 5 degrees.

You'll see how it all works as I go thru my build, but you're right the whole assy is so small and once installed on VY any dimensional discrepencies will be impossible to detect. But your note is well accepted and thanks for it.

Cheers, Tony

#24 shortliner

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 15:23

Tony - these may be of interest for signals - they were sent to me by a friend in California, as you can see they are tiny - the little yellowish dot in the centre packet marked "WHITE" is a single one out of its strip! He sent me some magnet wire to attach them with, but I don't have a small enough soldering iron at the moment!

DSCN1937.JPG

#25 Removed a/c_jim s-w

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 15:25

Hi Tone

I see ( I think). The longer side of the bar is at the top, so that the bar is parallel to the base of the bracket? Have I got that right?

Cheers

Jim






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