Multimaus Controller

[meatloaf]

Has anyone used a roco/fleischmann multimaus DCC controller? Ive been looking at upgrading from my ez command and was looking at the the prodigy express2 but this multimaus is half the price and from what I can see has pretty much all the features. Ive read that there are problems with the multimaus supplying to much voltage to the track with early power supply adaptors. Is this still the case?

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[RANGERS]

I bought a Multimaus a year or two back ahead of a NCE Powercab, only because it was a slightly used example at an incredibly low price. I've used it only as a test bed so far but it's going to see service on an end to end layout and based on experience so far, it works well and does pretty much what it says on the tin. The NCE would probably have been the preferred option but the deal on the Roco was just too good to turn down.

[eldavo]

I use a pair of Multimaus wired handsets on Cramdin Yard. I find them very good especially in an exhibition setting. The easy selection of locos from the library/roster makes life very easy. I use an old laptop power supply rather than the original transformer and I think this is how the later ones were delivered to correct the over voltage problem.

 

I use a Sprog and JMRI for most of my programming so the lack of ability to read CVs is not an issue for me.

 

Gets my vote.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Judge Dread]

I have used the Roco Multimaus system for about five years now and I have had no problems with this system. I bought the original set up from E-Bay. It seems Roco do a starter train set, loco, stock, track and control system. Many have been split up and the handset and transformer sold as a unit, averaging about £80 to £90, the last time I looked. I purchased a second handset from Germany via E-Bay.

I now have a Roco z21 system which I am using in conjunction with those Multimaus controllers and it seems to work very well indeed.

As to the premise Bachmann's DCC system in not proper DCC , well each to their own but it you have less than 8* locos and don't want any whistles and bells it's fine and cheap. Drop by the Guage 0 guild show at Telford at the beginning of next month and see "Hospital Gates" using said system as it has for the last few years.

8*, the Bachmann DCC system has provision for 9 locos but if you have a short circuit it will default to number 1 and if you don't notice....... Just don't use number 1!

[jbsorocaba]

Has anyone used a roco/fleischmann multimaus DCC controller? Ive been looking at upgrading from my ez command and was looking at the the prodigy express2 but this multimaus is half the price and from what I can see has pretty much all the features. Ive read that there are problems with the multimaus supplying to much voltage to the track with early power supply adaptors. Is this still the case?

​

I have two Multimaus connected together.  One is used as controller ( the master )and the other as booster ( slave ). This way I can delivery 7 amps to the track.  You can reduce the  track voltage using diodes if you need to operate N or Z locos, but for HO you dont need to reduce the voltage.   Moreover this voltage is not correct if you use a normal multimeter to mesure, because DCC used square waves and you need aspecial device to check this.  For programming I use a  Lenz USB Ethernet Digital interface that can be connected to computer for programming and management and with a router you can operate the locos with you smartphone.   The Z21 is a very good DCC system, but you can operate only with you smartphone and if you  do not wants to use this way, you will need to buy a separate hand controll.    Hope this help you

[jbsorocaba]

 

Few issues I have:

1. switching two (or more) outputs in parallel is a really bad idea if you don't know what you're doing. From what I read, it seems indeed you don't (unless you haven't told the whole story   )
2. measuring voltage of the DCC signal doesn't need a special device, a simple full bridge rectifier suffices. Just add 1-1.5V to correct for the voltage drop of the diodes. The only reason to use an oscilloscope is when checking symmetry of the signal.
3. the Z21 has so many connectors, most users will never use most. The z21 has far fewer connections, but in any case a Roco MultiMaus and various Lenz X-Bus devices (including controllers) can be used. I tried, it works

 

Dutch 

 

If you look a Multimaus Amplifier board, you will see that Roco make only one board for 10764 and 10765 ( Booster )  The difference between them is only the box, that has "windows" for booster out and booster in.  They change only the case and the connect to another place.  Using a one to one cable ( inverted ) you can connect the booster out of one 10764 to the booster out of another 10764.  The only restriction is that this second 10764 is used only as a booster and nothing can be connect to the others slots, and the output of each amplifier must have a isolated track.

 

I use a bridge rectifier connected to the main 10764 only to see if I have the same voltage all the time,and to measure the amperage of the locos, but this voltage is not correct.  You will need a true-reading Rms  device, because DCC is square wave.

 

Finally, Z21 is just I sad a good system with a lot of slots, but you will use only one. why you will pay more for a expensive system ( and dont forget the price o a handset ) if you can buy in eBay a new Roco Multimaus for only 75 - 80 euros..?  That is my opinion.  Cheers.

[jbsorocaba]

I've only experimented with the 10761 boards (<-link to 2010 thread, still have a working pair) where Roco used the same trick. Never tried the 10764/5 sets (except for the single one I have that came with my MultiMaus set, that I keep as backup system) but you didn't tell you use them on separate tracks/districts

 

Having studied Electronics, I'm very much aware DCC is a square wave, hence the full bridge rectifier and some adding of voltages to get V_dcc It's a d@rn sight cheaper then a TrueRMS meter!

 

I've only experimented with the 10761 boards (<-link to 2010 thread, still have a working pair) where Roco used the same trick. Never tried the 10764/5 sets (except for the single one I have that came with my MultiMaus set, that I keep as backup system) but you didn't tell you use them on separate tracks/districts

 

Having studied Electronics, I'm very much aware DCC is a square wave, hence the full bridge rectifier and some adding of voltages to get V_dcc It's a d@rn sight cheaper then a TrueRMS meter!

Dutch

Do you speak French..?  Look at the attachment

notice-booster-roco.pdf

[Phil S]

There should be no problem with 'warranty' because the units are not being modified in any way, and are also Roco connecting to Roco, as intended ...but when in differently labelled boxes 8-)

But it is of course at your own risk.

I was originally advised of this usage by an Austiran dealer some years ago, and have been using it ever since.... having bought so many Digital Start Sets, it allows me to have multiple power districts at no additional cost, on both my loft and portable layouts .... and without having to move Amplifiers/wiring between them.

 

I strongly recommend the Multimaus - we use it for everything up to G Scale - excluding the G-Scale Garden layout which has slopes and therefore benefits from the 8Amp caqpability of our Massoth Dimax800 for that.

 

THE VOLTAGE ISSUE - in which the on-track voltage can rise to the maximum permitted when no trains are running - is simply solved by replacing the Roco Transformer originally provided with a Switched Mode Laptop Power Supply of 18V DC 3.5-4A output... and Roco/Fleischmann now supply an 18V SMPS themselves,  in recent starter sets (but only 2A, in the set... larger version available)

THis works because the inpout, originally labelled as '16VAC' is followed by a fullwave rectifier, of sufficient rating, inside ....newer units are labeld for 16Vac/ 18dc.

An alternative solution was back-to-back diodes on the track output ... this can be used to obtain lower than 16Vdcc track voltage if desired.

(Lowering the inout voltage can result in the power stages not switching fully, resulting in a poor waveform and early failure, perhaps)

 

THE AMPLIFIER 10764 and BOOSTERs are electronically identical: 

IN AMPLIFIER MODE the MASTER SOCKET is connected to a MULTIMAUS, and more may be connected to the SLAVE Socket.  AN output to connect to a BOOSTER is provided (4 pin)

IN BOOSTER MODE there must be NOTHING CONNECTED to the MASTER or SLAVE SOCKETS .... but the box receives its signal via the BOOSTER IN/OUT connection (4 pin per socket)....

When SOLD AS a Booster, the 2nd Booster Socket is fitted, allowing LOOP THROUGH to more 3 more Boosters, and the Master/Slave sockets are not fitted!!

 

Without physically adding the 2nd socket, 'Loop Through' can be achieves simply by using a Y-connector for the RG booster plugs ... on the board the connection is simply passively looped.

Hence an 'AMPLIFIER' can be used as a Booster (1,2,3 or 4 max) without any internal modification,

Incidentally, the earlier 107681 amplifier (hard-wired track feed) does not, apparently, have the same level of protection on its track output.compared to the 10764.

 

Of course, each  booster/amplifier must have its OWN POWER SUPPLY (18V SMPS preferably), and connect to independant power districts with 2-rail isolation bridged only when needed by a loco passing from one district to another.   IT MAY be necessary to swap the polarity of the track feed, to ensure they are both the same (espcecially if you have both leads coloured 'black', as per Roco)

[jbsorocaba]

There should be no problem with 'warranty' because the units are not being modified in any way, and are also Roco connecting to Roco, as intended ...but when in differently labelled boxes 8-)

But it is of course at your own risk.

I was originally advised of this usage by an Austiran dealer some years ago, and have been using it ever since.... having bought so many Digital Start Sets, it allows me to have multiple power districts at no additional cost, on both my loft and portable layouts .... and without having to move Amplifiers/wiring between them.

 

I strongly recommend the Multimaus - we use it for everything up to G Scale - excluding the G-Scale Garden layout which has slopes and therefore benefits from the 8Amp caqpability of our Massoth Dimax800 for that.

 

THE VOLTAGE ISSUE - in which the on-track voltage can rise to the maximum permitted when no trains are running - is simply solved by replacing the Roco Transformer originally provided with a Switched Mode Laptop Power Supply of 18V DC 3.5-4A output... and Roco/Fleischmann now supply an 18V SMPS themselves,  in recent starter sets (but only 2A, in the set... larger version available)

THis works because the inpout, originally labelled as '16VAC' is followed by a fullwave rectifier, of sufficient rating, inside ....newer units are labeld for 16Vac/ 18dc.

An alternative solution was back-to-back diodes on the track output ... this can be used to obtain lower than 16Vdcc track voltage if desired.

(Lowering the inout voltage can result in the power stages not switching fully, resulting in a poor waveform and early failure, perhaps)

 

THE AMPLIFIER 10764 and BOOSTERs are electronically identical: 

IN AMPLIFIER MODE the MASTER SOCKET is connected to a MULTIMAUS, and more may be connected to the SLAVE Socket.  AN output to connect to a BOOSTER is provided (4 pin)

IN BOOSTER MODE there must be NOTHING CONNECTED to the MASTER or SLAVE SOCKETS .... but the box receives its signal via the BOOSTER IN/OUT connection (4 pin per socket)....

When SOLD AS a Booster, the 2nd Booster Socket is fitted, allowing LOOP THROUGH to more 3 more Boosters, and the Master/Slave sockets are not fitted!!

 

Without physically adding the 2nd socket, 'Loop Through' can be achieves simply by using a Y-connector for the RG booster plugs ... on the board the connection is simply passively looped.

Hence an 'AMPLIFIER' can be used as a Booster (1,2,3 or 4 max) without any internal modification,

Incidentally, the earlier 107681 amplifier (hard-wired track feed) does not, apparently, have the same level of protection on its track output.compared to the 10764.

 

Of course, each  booster/amplifier must have its OWN POWER SUPPLY (18V SMPS preferably), and connect to independant power districts with 2-rail isolation bridged only when needed by a loco passing from one district to another.   IT MAY be necessary to swap the polarity of the track feed, to ensure they are both the same (espcecially if you have both leads coloured 'black', as per Roco)

Hi Phil

Thank you for your explanation. I made these connections on my system and I use 2 districts, but I use the same output "polarity" on amplifier and on booster as a "common" and I made isolation only  in one rail .  Just to complement your explanation of the similarity between amplifier and booster I am attaching a picture of the board.

[Adie89]

Hi Phil

Thank you for your explanation. I made these connections on my system and I use 2 districts, but I use the same output "polarity" on amplifier and on booster as a "common" and I made isolation only  in one rail .  Just to complement your explanation of the similarity between amplifier and booster I am attaching a picture of the board.

I've been using several of the roco 10764 as boosters, but everywhere I've read about dcc including from the manufacturers is that you MUST isolate both rails. Something to do with feedback/shorts/earths I can't remember which but it is always emphasised very heavily as being dangerous not too isolate both.

[Crosland]

I use a bridge rectifier connected to the main 10764 only to see if I have the same voltage all the time,and to measure the amperage of the locos, but this voltage is not correct.  You will need a true-reading Rms  device, because DCC is square wave.

 

The voltage is correct, apart from the allowance needed for the diode drops. Ideally, add a small reservoir capacitor (just a few uF) to the output of the bridge. The capacitor will charge to much closer to the peak voltage and be even more accurate.

 

The peak and RMS are the same for a square wave, so you do not need a true-RMS meter in this situation.

 

Andrew

[Crosland]

I've been using several of the roco 10764 as boosters, but everywhere I've read about dcc including from the manufacturers is that you MUST isolate both rails. Something to do with feedback/shorts/earths I can't remember which but it is always emphasised very heavily as being dangerous not too isolate both.

 

Unless the boosters are designed for common rail operation both rails must be isolated, even if you attempt to match polarity. The common is then made upstream between the booster "earth" or "ground" connections. It might also be called "booster common". The user guide for the system should be clear on this.

 

Andrew