Playing with Hornby Dublo 3 rail again

[Il Grifone]

I find Dublo locos will manage five Dublo coaches without problems on the level*. (The R1 possibly less - my 3 rail one is only happy with three**). More than this and they will start slipping. The Dublo spec. specifies 4 SD6 coaches as a load (the earlier Stanier coaches are about the same for friction***, but the short Gresley and compartment coaches, being lighter, are less of a load). Most locos should be able to manage five laps of a standard Dublo oval (about 10 feet) in 25 seconds or less - about a scale 100 mph. Some will do even better - my Southern (N2) tank and 'horseshoe' Duchess for example. (The latter came with 26mm Romford wheels fitted**** and went like the proverbial shi rocket. Though since fitted with proper Dublo wheels, she is still fast enough to leave the rails on Dublo curves...)

 

* On Dublo track and assuming the stock is free running (by Dublo standards - start to roll on 1 in 30). Decent bearings with at least double this. Nickel plated wheels seem to slip more easily or is this just me?

 

** The plastic body severely limits the adhesion. Tri-ang locos seem to manage about the same in general - no Magnadesion! I seem to recall a review which quoted the tractive pull of a Tri-ang 0-6-0 at ½ gram, but this seemed rather pathetic at the time.....

 

*** I once measured the frictional drag of one of these (LMS version) at 8 grams. The measuring equipment was rather crude so don't quote me.

 

**** She was the victim of someone's misguided abandoned attempt to detail her. As the original lettering is worn off, I intend to rename her as 'Duchess of Abercorn' (when I get around to it.....)

[Golden Fleece 30]

It is not just you David, a lot of people over the years have all noted that plated wheels do not give as much traction as non plated do.  It was possibly due to the far better current pick-up (less resistance or something) that they were done that way.  Even now my old Tri-ang locos with sintered iron tyres are better than their later plated wheel models.  I remove the magnets where possible as they are not needed for nickel track and I will not be going back to it, who would?  The magnets do tend to hold back the wheels so removing them gives the little extra freedom.

 

 

It's all part of the fun of the hobby I guess.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

The nickel plating was probably because of the tendency for mazak to pick up muck. I never had problem with my Dublo 2 rail conversions despite only replacing the insulated wheels, but my GWR 633 class* with Romford wheels continually required her mazak wheels to be cleaned (they insulated nickel ones were OK).

 

I find that Tri-ang magnets tend to pull the axles sideways and rub against the frame, above all with the motor bogies where they are a vital part of the assembly.

 

* A conversion from a Tri-ang Jinty, when such things were fashionable (1969). I keep meaning to do it properly, maybe starting with a Dublo or Wrenn R1. (I do have one which has lost her chimney.........) She's sitting on the bench reproaching me at the moment.

 

David

 

EDIT for missing letter (either finger trouble or Firefox's annoying habit of momentarily freezing and missing out letters while typing).

(I have tried other browsers, but they seem to be even more of a PITA than Firefox.)

Edited April 4, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

I have to agree with you David about the "muck" Mazak wheels can pick-up and as you say Romfords were quite bad.  I wonder if there was a different make up in the Mazak or just that we did not really notice it as such due to the nickel on one side being a lot cleaner?

 

Regarding the Tri-ang motor bogie magnets I put the wide part with two slots in the vice and snap the prongs that go either side of the cog off with a hammer.  What is left still holds the nylon bearing down but no magnet near the wheel as such.

 

How many R1's have lost their chimneys over the years?

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

My R1 appears to have suffered deliberate 'enemy action', as the chimney has been cut off almost flush with the smokebox. Breakage* is common and losing the loose cap even more so! One of my Tri-ang 3F 0-6-0s (3 railed!)  has a broken chimney though. (Still I acquired both cheaply because of it!)

 

* Plastic rather than doing the job properly!

[AdamsRadial]

Broken chimneys seem to be very common, I have mended a Jinty, R1 and Triang 3F using the plasticine and super-steel trick. My challenge now is to make up a missing smokebox door for an Airfix 4F.

 

One good thing about the diecast Hornby-Dublo bodies is that they don't break so easily as plastic, or warp.

[Il Grifone]

You don't need to stuff Dublo with lead before they will pull anything either!     (R1 excluded of course.)

 

Parts used to be available over the counter of the local model shop....... (Isn't progress wonderful?)

[Golden Fleece 30]

Parts used to be available over the counter of the local model shop....... (Isn't progress wonderful?)

 

Never mind over the counter, you have difficulty getting parts off the internet as well.  Most companies don't provide spares these days.  You do see the odd screw, wheel set for Hornby (a lot of which is because someone has stripped a good loco) but I have yet to see anything for Bachmann or Dapol, ( I don't look for Dapol so that could be a reason).

 

It seems spares are no longer required from manufactures, you buy a loco to run till it stops (30 minutes to a few years) and then buy something different because that loco is not made anymore then.

[Il Grifone]

I intended that both the parts and the shop had disappeared.......

 

There are still a few specialist suppliers, but even these are thinning out....

[sagaguy]

Having dismantled my N gauge layout,i`ve recovered the baseboard with cork tiles & have got my Dublo 3 rail collection out of storage & have started to lay track.H/D locos never cease to amaze me,out the boxes after nearly 25 years & they run & perform faultlessly even before Lubrication & that smell,it takes me back to my childhood in the 1950s.

 

 

 

One thing about H/D track is that i can try out different formations without cutting.The layout is still in its development stage.

 

                             Ray.

[Nearholmer]

OK, one of those DMMUs is a Trix Trans-Pennine, but what is the other? I'm guessing Lima converted to 3-rail.

 

Kevin

[sagaguy]

Yes,you are right,it was supplied converted by a model shop in Lincoln rd,Peterborough in the late 80s using a Marklin skate,i also have a Lima 87 from the same source.

 

  Does any one know any repairers who can convert 2R to 3R these days?.

 

                  Ray.

[Jenny Emily]

If it wasn't for the fact that it is trying to rain here, I'm getting inspired from reading recent posts in this thread to run a little Hornby Dublo on my garden layout. A City of London with a rake of tinplate super detail coaches will look nice snaking through the daffodils.

[Il Grifone]

Yes,you are right,it was supplied converted by a model shop in Lincoln rd,Peterborough in the late 80s using a Marklin skate,i also have a Lima 87 from the same source.

 

  Does any one know any repairers who can convert 2R to 3R these days?.

 

                  Ray.

 

I'm afraid I don't know of anyone.

 

I've done all mine myself usually using home made pickups*. My Tri-ang DMU uses a Märklin skate (these are available as spares for a few pounds on eBay) or the genuine Dublo article. The latter now fetch premium prices . I've seen them go for more than I paid for complete locomotives! My

Dublo Deltic conversion uses Trix shoes from a lighted brake van. These are usually quite cheap as they suffer from corrosion (A white powder - zinc oxide? - Dublo which has been exposed to damp also suffers, but the Trix die-cast wagons seem particularly prone. It is also difficult to eradicate). Unfortunately the shoes are usually well worn. The connections to the motor (or the magnet - use a keeper unless it's neodymium or you you have access to a remagnetiser) need to be reversed or the locomotive will run the wrong way. (My Dublo rebuilt W.C. still does, as I don't want to touch her motor.) There is no need to replace the wheels, but pickup should be retained on the insulated ones (I find one axle is sufficient). The tender is a good location for the pickups - they can hide behind the wheels.

 

* The shoes can be made from upholstery nails or paper fasteners (the type inserted in a punched hole with two taps to bend down) sprung with phosphor-bronze strip and a piece of copper clad PCB material as a base (preferably glass-fibre though the paxolin type is quite adequate).

[sagaguy]

Hi David,I have a couple of Marklin 7185 skates which i bought recently from Gaugemaster at very reasonable prices(£2.90 each)with a view to 3 railing my Heljan EM1.The Trix collector shoes really want a spoon shaped collector soldered to the centre rail p/u to stop it from catching under the centre rail on points.Funny thing is that my EM1s run through the points perfectly.Jobs for the near future though.

 

                        Ray.

Edited April 11, 2016 by sagaguy

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If it wasn't for the fact that it is trying to rain here, I'm getting inspired from reading recent posts in this thread to run a little Hornby Dublo on my garden layout. A City of London with a rake of tinplate super detail coaches will look nice snaking through the daffodils.

 

 ... Dublo which has been exposed to damp also suffers...

This also applies to the tinplate. It is all too easy if running outdoors to end up with condensation on models even f they are never directly exposed to rain. This never seemed much of a problem on locos - maybe the motor heat was enought to help dry them off - but corrosion appeared on the mazak and tinplate of H-D vehicles in time. I scrapped a goodly number of tinplate wagons by regular use outdoors - all of them in short!

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the dish shaped disc I showed Ray that I put on my Trix Trans-Pennine although mine was needed as my centre rail is lower than the running rails, code 83 as opposed to code 100.  I have just got a reasonable boxed Trix EM1 set with two coaches (possibly the wrong ones), track and a Trix controller.  This controller does state made by Hammant and Morgan for Trix.  There is also a Trix year book 1956 which only has A/C stock and Bakelite track.  I only want the loco, Triton, so all the rest will be disposed of sometime.  The loco is set for 2-rail but hopefully tomorrow I will set the collectors for 3-rail.

 

The Marklin skate is used on a Tri-ang motorised tender for Dublo running but again domed discs are soldered on each end but not really needed I think for standard Dublo track.

 

David, do not look at Dublo pick-ups of any style on Ebay as Dennis Williams "The Dublo Surgeon" via Google sells brand new replicas a fair bit cheaper, sometimes half the price on Ebay.  Tender plungers are either Brass or Nickel, your choice.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

I've considered converting to stud contact in the past (there was an article in the model press in the distant past (RM? I remember the 'victim' was a 2-6-4T ) on modifying Dublo pickups). Now I have too many locos.....

 

(To be precise not too many locos (one can't have too many), just too many to consider converting them all....)

 

I didn't realise 'The Dublo Surgeon' was still in business (though the last update was in 2013). Thanks for the pointer! (I always meant to exchange some dud armatures, but now have the right size wire and replacement insulators to wind them myself. Must build a winding machine from Meccano..... I thought to use a pedometer as a turns counter (Put the thing to some use.......)

 

IIRC the coaches with the EM1 should be maroon 'scale length' or possibly the later plastic Mk Is depending on date.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi David,

 

Dennis does not often update his site as I think he used to have someone do it for him but definitely still in the business.  I see him regularly at shows and speak on the phone.  Just ring or write for an updated price of what you want and I know most parts, especially pick-ups are usually in stock.

 

The coaches in the EM1 set are the maroon scale length but for some reason there is the corridor composite and a buffet car.  I think the corridor will be correct but suspect the buffet should be a brake.  I doubt it will make much difference with the price as both coaches are "grubby" and their windows being acetate are now considerably smaller but I am not going to worry.

 

As for stud contact I personally would not do it, a while ago I bought some Marklin track when I was doing a Dublo layout and it looked very good, fitted well with Dublo track BUT the spoons rattled along all the studs like a lollipop stick along railings.  Making the spoons flatter might help but for me there are too many locos to convert.  I did start removing the studs from the track and inverting them as a rail because at the time I was going to use Marklin elevated track sections painted in Dublo colours but ended up with the layout I have now.  Who knows one day they may be resurrected   

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Here is the dish shaped disc I showed Ray that I put on my Trix Trans-Pennine although mine was needed as my centre rail is lower than the running rails, code 83 as opposed to code 100.  I have just got a reasonable boxed Trix EM1 set with two coaches (possibly the wrong ones), track and a Trix controller.  This controller does state made by Hammant and Morgan for Trix.  There is also a Trix year book 1956 which only has A/C stock and Bakelite track.  I only want the loco, Triton, so all the rest will be disposed of sometime.  The loco is set for 2-rail but hopefully tomorrow I will set the collectors for 3-rail.

 

The Marklin skate is used on a Tri-ang motorised tender for Dublo running but again domed discs are soldered on each end but not really needed I think for standard Dublo track.

 

David, do not look at Dublo pick-ups of any style on Ebay as Dennis Williams "The Dublo Surgeon" via Google sells brand new replicas a fair bit cheaper, sometimes half the price on Ebay.  Tender plungers are either Brass or Nickel, your choice.

 

Garry

Giving it some thought,a drawing pin head soldered to a trix collector shoe may do the trick,i have some used shoes so will give it a try.

 

                     Ray.

[cctransuk]

Giving it some thought,a drawing pin head soldered to a trix collector shoe may do the trick,i have some used shoes so will give it a try.

 

                     Ray.

 

Back in the 1960s I used drawing pin heads soldered to brass shim to 3-rail a K's J70 W&U tram loco - and anyone who has seen one of these will know that clearance between the underside of the motor bogie and the rails was minimal !!

 

It worked a treat and was surprisingly powerful.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Il Grifone]

Hi David,

 

Dennis does not often update his site as I think he used to have someone do it for him but definitely still in the business.  I see him regularly at shows and speak on the phone.  Just ring or write for an updated price of what you want and I know most parts, especially pick-ups are usually in stock.

 

The coaches in the EM1 set are the maroon scale length but for some reason there is the corridor composite and a buffet car.  I think the corridor will be correct but suspect the buffet should be a brake.  I doubt it will make much difference with the price as both coaches are "grubby" and their windows being acetate are now considerably smaller but I am not going to worry.

 

As for stud contact I personally would not do it, a while ago I bought some Marklin track when I was doing a Dublo layout and it looked very good, fitted well with Dublo track BUT the spoons rattled along all the studs like a lollipop stick along railings.  Making the spoons flatter might help but for me there are too many locos to convert.  I did start removing the studs from the track and inverting them as a rail because at the time I was going to use Marklin elevated track sections painted in Dublo colours but ended up with the layout I have now.  Who knows one day they may be resurrected 

 

Garry

 

Hi Garry,

 

The set definitely should be a brake/second and the other should be a first. There's one here http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=572623

 

It could be a Friday afternoon set of course or the dining car could have been purchased separately (an obvious addition) and the original lost or damaged.

 

The acetate can be replaced or cut into window sized pieces, which saves painting the handrails on a new piece.

 

I have a couple of Märklin 3 rail points (Dublo is not happy on these!) and a later stud contact one, Since it was acquired incomplete, I am converting it to 3 rail. Unfortunately this is more difficult than expected as the contact tongues are missing and Dublo ones do not fit very well. It's a pity the height of the base is different and requires packing.

 

I always thought that drawing pins wouldn't be dished enough to function as shoes. I could try some from the packet I bought to turn down for buffer heads.....

 

Regards David

[sagaguy]

Drawing pin heads are a bit large,the first attempt wasn`t very successful,i will turn a couple down to reduce the diameter.

 

                              Ray.

[cctransuk]

Drawing pin heads are a bit large,the first attempt wasn`t very successful,i will turn a couple down to reduce the diameter.

 

                              Ray.

 

Drawing pins are available in a multitude of sizes.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[brianusa]

For you Hornby Dublo enthusiasts here are a couple of Bristol Castles in a completely different disguise.

 

One is a Star class loco and is ALL Dublo.  The cab sides have had all rivet detail removed and filed to remove the rear window, a piece of brass was placed behind the front one and then soldered up to fill the space (the casting had a small chamfer filed in to hold the solder in place).  The roof was cut back and a small spacer fitted between the black and copper top chimney to lift it.  The tender body had all rivets removed then about 5mm taken off the bottom to lower it but still leaving space for the plungers to work.

 

The County has had some of the front inside cylinder casting removed, the centre splashes milled back to the width of the front and rear ones then a new brass one piece splasher made and fitted over these.  The cylinders were moved further forward and an extension to the connecting rod added to allow it to still be usable.  Also the cylinders were filed slightly to give the WR tapered look but without spoiling them due to other parts this is not as much as it should be.  The tender sides had the top flare removed and then new bass sides fitted onto the shell.  I know the frames are wrong but I discovered this too late to change it for the 8F/City one.  Unfortunately there are no Dublo style transfers for this loco so some of the curved bits had to be done freehand after using standard Castle ones.

 

The photo of the County and Castle shows I do have the odd gloss finish loco.

Going back a bit, shouldn't the lining on the BR locos be more yellowy?  I don't remember it being so orange.  Perhaps I never saw a clean one!

 

Brian.