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DJLC - A Few Ideas




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#1 Echo

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 15:44

Unfortunately, I am getting a little carried away with ideas for the Diamond Jubilee Layout Challenge  :o

 

When it was first announced, with a maximum scenic area of 600mm by 240mm, I thought 'what on earth would fit in a space like that?'. After playing around with one or two, my brain quickly got into the mood and far too many ideas quickly followed.

 

The Challenge is very much set as something for beginners to try as their first step into producing a layout. For the more experienced modeller though, I think it does offer a challenge rather different and refreshing. Every day seems to bring another thought to mind. I have rejected quite a few. It is amazing just how many good ideas are just that little bit too big - and can't easily be compressed. I have also come across a few where the pointwork is just off limits, so doomed to fail as not fitting the rules.

 

Here are just a few I have thought of so far. I don't claim any of them are good, but at least it sets my ideas down on 'paper' for comments and thought. I concentrated mainly on modelling small sections of real locations - more or less to scale. Abstract ideas are far more difficult to convey. Scene blockers (or wings, as Iain Rice calls them) help to cut out the bits off scenic limits - as do bridges and tunnel mouths. Most of these ideas could be extended later. Some would do fine just as they are.

 

Beginning with something simple, the old goods yard at Redruth could be compressed slightly to make an interesting shunting layout.

 

0Redruth1a.jpg

 

This appears to have a 4-way interlaced turnout which would be interesting to build.

 

Another idea I had was to model the telescopic bridge at Bridgwater. Bridges always make interesting models. Unfortunately, the bridge itself is near enough 600mm long on its own, so no room for a turnout as it stands.

 

0Telescopic-Bridge-A.jpg

 

By reducing its scale to 80% I found room for a turnout at one end, so the idea could qualify for the Challenge after all. This also has the benefit of narrowing the width for standard gauge trains only.

 

0Telescopic-Bridge-B.jpg

 

To make the cameo more interesting, I added a diamond crossing for another line. A few subtly placed buildings and an overbridge would make the scenic breaks.

 

The telescopic bridge could be made to work, as has already been done in a larger scale. Later, I could add a small branch terminus on the left, maybe.

 

As well as simple scenes, some surprisingly complex trackwork and scenery can be incorporated in 600x240mm, without much compromise.

 

Here is Aldgate on the Metropolitan Railway

 

Aldgate.jpg

 

This had an overall roof starting roughly where the orange line is on the right. By moving this to the left, a good visual break is added to the already existing tunnel mouths and deep retaining walls.

 

Next, we have the south end of Dudley station. This squeezes some very intense trackwork into a very small space. To get the area into 240mm wide, the down GW platform and trackwork has been omitted.

 

Dudley.jpg

 

Some minor compression would be required to get an acceptable scene, but not by very much. I would be tempted to move the station buildings slightly to the right.

 

Here are views of the scene

 

Dudley-LH.jpg

 

Dudley-RH.jpg

 

The north end of Ludgate Hill station would work quite well too. The station had quite a high walls that once supported an overall roof, so the station itself has a good visual break. At the other end, a tall building on the north side of Ludgate would give a good scenic break.

 

Ludgate.jpg

 

The trackwork is rather complex, but was simplified in later times.

 

Here is a view of how the model might look

 

Ludgate-pano.jpg

 

Next, we have the west end of Grimsby station. This would include a working level crossing.

 

Grimsby.jpg

 

Here is a 3D view of the area. The sgnal box and the overall roof of the station make good view blockers.

 

Grimsby-Concept-1.jpg

 

Finally, something quirky - the old cable tram terminus at Matlock. This would make a lovely scene, if slightly monotonous to operate!

 

Matlock.jpg

 

Matlock-Cable-Tram.jpg

 

That's all for now. I don't claim that any of them are particularly good  - but its a start. By this time next week, I may well have another few hundred ideas :drag:

 

The problem will be what, if anything I should actually model. No rush, thankfully, as I have one or two other things to progress first. Hopefully, my first thoughts will set a few ideas going in other people's minds.


Edited by Echo, 30 July 2017 - 15:47 .

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#2 nick_bastable

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 22:00

so will you enter ?

 

I have a feeling I may line No19 beckons

 

Nick



#3 Echo

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:04

so will you enter ?

 

I have a feeling I may line No19 beckons

 

Nick

 

Yeah, I will have a go - if only I can make my mind up what to do ;)

 

The discipline of squeezing something into such a small space will be good for me. I have a few other things on the go at the moment though, so I may end up rushing one of the simple ones right near the deadline.  :o



#4 Matthew W

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 09:30

Lots of interesting ideas here !

 

Funny you should mention Redruth yard as I have been thinking of something based on it, as a refurb of my old, and semi-derelict, c. 1990 test track. There is a plan and one photo in the Oakwood Press book "The West Cornwall Railway" - this is the sum total of my "research" so far - which shows one mixed gauge siding and three points: all mixed gauge, one a three way, and the other two ordinary turnouts.

 

The West Cornwall was originally standard gauge, but was re-gauged by adding a third rail when it was acquired by the GWR in 1866. The Redruth yard was the old WCR station, which was bypassed by the broad gauge connection to Truro, and relegated to a yard. According to the book the yard remained standard gauge, apart from one line of mixed gauge.

 

A proper model with old WCR locos and stock and a bit of broad gauge would be delightful, but do I have the desire ( or ability ) to build them ? A resounding "not b.......y likely" I suspect from those who know me !  But even as a simple "generic" inglenook-type shunting yard it is quite appealing.  The big building appears to be a combined passenger station and goods shed, and the line exits stage right through a cutting.

 

Matthew



#5 bécasse

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 14:52

Surely the answer with the Redruth yard layout as drawn is not to include that 3-way point as an actual point but to use a sector plate to select the appropriate road out of the three. You would still need to build 3 crossings (or frogs, to use the old modellers' term) but no point blades. The point for the fourth siding is separate and would still need to be built as a complete point.


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#6 Echo

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 14:59

Lots of interesting ideas here !

 

Funny you should mention Redruth yard as I have been thinking of something based on it, as a refurb of my old, and semi-derelict, c. 1990 test track. There is a plan and one photo in the Oakwood Press book "The West Cornwall Railway" - this is the sum total of my "research" so far - which shows one mixed gauge siding and three points: all mixed gauge, one a three way, and the other two ordinary turnouts.

 

The West Cornwall was originally standard gauge, but was re-gauged by adding a third rail when it was acquired by the GWR in 1866. The Redruth yard was the old WCR station, which was bypassed by the broad gauge connection to Truro, and relegated to a yard. According to the book the yard remained standard gauge, apart from one line of mixed gauge.

 

A proper model with old WCR locos and stock and a bit of broad gauge would be delightful, but do I have the desire ( or ability ) to build them ? A resounding "not b.......y likely" I suspect from those who know me !  But even as a simple "generic" inglenook-type shunting yard it is quite appealing.  The big building appears to be a combined passenger station and goods shed, and the line exits stage right through a cutting.

 

Matthew

 

There are several OS maps showing the site in different stages of development, so further research is definitely possible. Shame you don't want to try the pointwork though. It would be an excellent way of learning how to build complex pointwork. I wuld draw it up in Templot first. The sector plate idea would also work well, which is what I was thinking of doing. Don't let me stop you if you want to have a go. I was probably going to do something else anyway.



#7 Echo

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Posted 01 August 2017 - 10:40

I have had a few more ideas, but none as good (in my opinion only, of course) as the original set.

 

Here is Wantage, pretty much in its entirety.

 

Wantage2.jpg

 

The exit trackwork would be hidden behind the small loco shed. As a diorama it would work really well - but the tiny locos would be challenging to build and run reliably.

 

Of the ones so far I think Grimsby or Dudley would make the best models, though Ludgate comes a close third. The big problem with Ludgate would be all the EMUs I would have to make somehow. At least with the other two, there is a reasonable amount of RTR stuff available to ease the burden - some of which I already have.

 

I did this impression of Grimsby, complete with wings to hide the exits.

 

Grimsby Concept 2.jpg

 

This could easily be incorporated in a larger layout at a later date. The whole station is fairly compact for a main line station as it is squeezed between two level crossings.

 

Dudley, on the other hand would probably work best as a small diorama, even for the long term. The site gets very wide and complicated further north. Further south, the line is hidden in a deep cutting. I would possibly just make the diorama wider after the Diamond Jubilee to accommodate the missing trackwork.

 

I will have to leave this for a while now, as I have other modelling jobs, including urgent work for an exhibition in a few weeks time!



#8 Echo

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 22:48

In odd moments, I have refined the telescopic bridge idea, making it the front runner for the moment.

 

I moved the telescopic bridge to the right, such that only 2/3 of it is visible in the scenic part of the model. That makes more room for the junction on the left. A bit like this..

 

sadley_knott_junction1.jpg

 

An overhead signal cabin on the left, the sea wall (in brown) and a second river bridge would act as scenic breaks. This bridge would be at a higher level than the railway bridge, so could be of a fixed design. Overall, it looks a little more balanced than before.

 

The big attraction for me would be the complex pointwork, which would look a bit like this..

 

sadley_knott_junction.jpg

 

I still have to tidy up the sleepers a bit, but I may do that manually, rather than mess around a lot more on the computer. I had a go at something similar at the beginning of last year and almost succeeded. I don't like to accept defeat, so it's been bugging me for a while. I finally twigged that a sharper crossing angle would make everything fit together better - so that's what I have done in the new version. I would try and make sure that I built it in a more logical sequence, as last time I found I couldn't get the soldering iron close enough to solder in place some of the final check rails.

 

The first diagram suggests what might exist beyond the scenic model - basically a very small seaside branch terminus. I could add that after the DJLC. The complex junction would be built first, just to make sure I can do it. everything else would be easy in comparison.

 

Only a thought for now. I won't be making a start (at the earliest) until October, as I am busy with other things. I may still do one of the other ideas instead, of course. No rush though - we have quite a long time before the deadline at the moment.



#9 2mmMark

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 22:57


 

Only a thought for now. I won't be making a start (at the earliest) until October, as I am busy with other things. I may still do one of the other ideas instead, of course. No rush though - we have quite a long time before the deadline at the moment.

 

That's what a lot of us who entered the Golden Jubilee challenge thought!

 

Mark


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#10 2mmMark

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:10

Lots of interesting ideas here !

 

Funny you should mention Redruth yard as I have been thinking of something based on it, as a refurb of my old, and semi-derelict, c. 1990 test track. There is a plan and one photo in the Oakwood Press book "The West Cornwall Railway" - this is the sum total of my "research" so far - which shows one mixed gauge siding and three points: all mixed gauge, one a three way, and the other two ordinary turnouts.

 

The West Cornwall was originally standard gauge, but was re-gauged by adding a third rail when it was acquired by the GWR in 1866. The Redruth yard was the old WCR station, which was bypassed by the broad gauge connection to Truro, and relegated to a yard. According to the book the yard remained standard gauge, apart from one line of mixed gauge.

 

A proper model with old WCR locos and stock and a bit of broad gauge would be delightful, but do I have the desire ( or ability ) to build them ? A resounding "not b.......y likely" I suspect from those who know me !  But even as a simple "generic" inglenook-type shunting yard it is quite appealing.  The big building appears to be a combined passenger station and goods shed, and the line exits stage right through a cutting.

 

Matthew

 

Mixed gauge?  Reasonably easy with transverse sleepered soldered track.

 

Paul Styles had some interesting small modules of a similar overall size to the DJLC dimensions featuring mixed standard & broad gauge at a 2mm Supermeet.  Quite a few years ago and predated the time when I usually had a camera with me. Wish I had a few pictures to supplement my memory!

 

Paul was running a modified Ibertren Cuckoo on the broad gauge. He'd extended the axles and converted it to an inside cylindered loco, giving it a somewhat Victorian industrial loco look.

 

Mark



#11 Kris

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:30

That's what a lot of us who entered the Golden Jubilee challenge thought!

 

Mark

 

And it's amazing just how quickly that crept up on us...


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#12 Echo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:07

And it's amazing just how quickly that crept up on us...

 

its only 2 sq ft

 

its only 2 sq ft

 
its only 2 sq ft
 
,,,and yes, it will creep up on us just the same!
 
:o


#13 nick_bastable

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:33

Mixed gauge?  Reasonably easy with transverse sleepered soldered track.

 

Paul Styles had some interesting small modules of a similar overall size to the DJLC dimensions featuring mixed standard & broad gauge at a 2mm Supermeet.  Quite a few years ago and predated the time when I usually had a camera with me. Wish I had a few pictures to supplement my memory!

 

Paul was running a modified Ibertren Cuckoo on the broad gauge. He'd extended the axles and converted it to an inside cylindered loco, giving it a somewhat Victorian industrial loco look.

 

Mark

strange you should say that as my thoughts have been drifting towards this

 

080817.jpg

 

The Guildford Tramway ran within a mile of the East Kent Light Railway with 3'6" gauge was initially surveyed  by Stephens and was planed to extend to Deal

 

any thoughts?

 

Nick


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#14 £1.38

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 11:45

Making something like that ought to be as easy as a conventional turnout - drawing it accurately in Templot is the challenge! ;)



#15 Pixie

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 13:29

A curveball question - do entries have to be 9.42mm gauge?! I've been looking for an excuse to build a model of a meter gauge prototype and this could be an ideal opportunity. The idea is to use Association track standards (flangeways, wheel standards, etc) but the gauge slimed from 9.42mm to 7.11mm.

 

Steve



#16 nick_bastable

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 13:40

A curveball question - do entries have to be 9.42mm gauge?! I've been looking for an excuse to build a model of a meter gauge prototype and this could be an ideal opportunity. The idea is to use Association track standards (flangeways, wheel standards, etc) but the gauge slimed from 9.42mm to 7.11mm.

 

Steve

Andy Hanson mentions in the newsletter that Narrow or Broad gauge are acceptable if built to 2mm or better standards subject to approval at the time of entry,   he suggest you him to check

 

Nick



#17 Echo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 14:36

strange you should say that as my thoughts have been drifting towards this

 

attachicon.gif080817.jpg

 

The Guildford Tramway ran within a mile of the East Kent Light Railway with 3'6" gauge was initially surveyed  by Stephens and was planed to extend to Deal

 

any thoughts?

 

Nick

Nice idea - spelt Guilford though ;). I think there was an idea that the line might be incorporated in a long distance electric tramway at one time. The detail of the mixed gauge track possibly depends on which lines are passenger and which are goods only. A cheap and nasty goods-only solution might get away with a bladeless turnout, using a checkrail on the standard-gauge-only rail to guide the standard gauge away from the mixed gauge track.



#18 2mm Andy

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 14:39

A curveball question - do entries have to be 9.42mm gauge?! I've been looking for an excuse to build a model of a meter gauge prototype and this could be an ideal opportunity. The idea is to use Association track standards (flangeways, wheel standards, etc) but the gauge slimed from 9.42mm to 7.11mm.

 

Steve

 

As Nick has mentioned, the track gauge doesn't have to be 9.42mm. I've only had one query so far (from someone wanting to build an FS160 layout), but as long as the entry uses Association track/wheel standards (or finer) then it's eligible.

 

By the way, metre gauge would be 6.56mm track gauge...

 

Andy H


Edited by 2mm Andy, 08 August 2017 - 14:39 .


#19 nick_bastable

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 14:44

Nice idea - spelt Guilford though ;). I think there was an idea that the line might be incorporated in a long distance electric tramway at one time. The detail of the mixed gauge track possibly depends on which lines are passenger and which are goods only. A cheap and nasty goods-only solution might get away with a bladeless turnout, using a checkrail on the standard-gauge-only rail to guide the standard gauge away from the mixed gauge track.

indeed my spelling was incorrect and I should have known better my GJLC entry been Line No4  Guilford Colliery !  Some testing with mixed gauges is quite encouraging and I did make a  duel gauge turnout blade-less with a continuous check rail  which appears to work very well .  You are correct a early proposal for the tramway started in Margate and went as far as  Hastings

 

DSC_4773a.jpg

 

 

Nick


Edited by nick_bastable, 08 August 2017 - 14:52 .

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#20 Pixie

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 14:58

Thanks Andy - I'll drop you a PM this evening to clarify!

 

By the way, metre gauge would be 6.56mm track gauge...

 

Apologies - indeed, in 1/152 but I'm looking at 1067mm gauge in 1/150.

 

Cheers,

Steve



#21 Echo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 15:09

indeed my spelling was incorrect and I should have known better my GJLC entry been Line No4  Guilford Colliery !  Some testing with mixed gauges is quite encouraging and I did make a  duel gauge turnout blade-less with a continuous check rail  which appears to work very well .  You are correct a early proposal for the tramway started in Margate and went as far as  Hastings

 

attachicon.gifDSC_4773a.jpg

 

 

Nick

 

I have done something similar before in P4, which worked very well too, but I have no photos. I suggest your standard gauge check rail only has to be quite short unless it is a passenger line. I was told by someone who saw similar "pointwork" in Africa that you need a checkrail on the other side too - a bit like the bottom part in the diagram - LHS in the photo, of the single blade turnouts I have built recently in P4

 

file.php?id=12647

 

file.php?id=12648


Edited by Echo, 08 August 2017 - 15:20 .

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#22 Echo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 17:51

OK, I'm definitely having a go at the complex pointwork/telescopic bridge idea as in post #8

 

post-26366-0-39673900-1502144947.jpg

 

 

If I fail to get the complex part of the pointwork built to my satisfaction, I can always fall back on one of my other ideas.... there's plenty of time  :o

 

I'll probably start a layout-specific topic when I've made a bit of progress - likely October/November time.



#23 nick_bastable

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 18:09

I have done something similar before in P4, which worked very well too, but I have no photos. I suggest your standard gauge check rail only has to be quite short unless it is a passenger line. I was told by someone who saw similar "pointwork" in Africa that you need a checkrail on the other side too - a bit like the bottom part in the diagram - LHS in the photo, of the single blade turnouts I have built recently in P4

 

file.php?id=12647

 

file.php?id=12648

interesting that the outer rail needs a check rail, as I suspect if built and working I will be running passenger services I'm incline to leave the check rail long although its performance with LWB coaches may revise this, I need to wire up the test pieces properly and see how it works

 

Nick



#24 Echo

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 22:06

Looking at your Templot plan again, if it's a passenger line you shouldn't have catch points. Only used normally for access from goods lines and sidings to passenger lines.



#25 nick_bastable

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 22:43

no catch points planned ( i can not recall seeing any evidence of one  on the  EKLR pre 1948 )  perhaps you  have  mis- interpreted my basic plan which I have incorrectly drawn  I have not made it  clear eg   standard gauge to branch narrow gauge strait ? 

 

as a aside please retain this thread  although if  possible perhaps renamed  to DJLC so we can see what others are thinking prior to their own threads  ( its only a idea) :scratchhead:

 

 

Nick  

 

edit for yet more pp English from me


Edited by nick_bastable, 08 August 2017 - 22:54 .