Echo Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) As people are asking questions in another topic, which is good, I thought it best to start a dedicated topic earlier than I had planned. As I have already said, my DJLC entry will be inspired by a small corner of Dudley, but different enough to be called something else. 'Sadley Knott' is what I came up with. I absolutely don't want to win anything - just participate in the 2mm Scale Association's Diamond Jubilee Layout Challenge for the fun of it. Here's the track plan, which I will modify slightly to squeeze things into the diorama better. I will extend the track slightly beyond the scenic area with future expansion in mind. I will probably be using cassettes for off-board train handling. and here is something of the scene I hope to recreate, though I will have to modify things drastically in one or two places to fit the 600mm by 240mm dimensions - particularly the overbridge on the right of the first photo. The competition does not end until 2020, so I have plenty of time to do some proper planning before I start on the layout proper. I may do some work on the buildings and retaining walls first, as these are probably far more of a challenge than the track to get right. Building lots of atmosphere into the diorama is vital - a bit like this... I am not too well up on those funny green engines with their strange boilers and fittings though............. Good job many of the trains were LNWR/LMS! Edited October 18, 2017 by Echo 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 I've been playing around with various boxes and other accessories to get a better feel for what the diorama may look like. I was mainly worried about how the scene would disappear at the left hand end behind and under the footbridge. Things actually look quite good. A very large chimney is conveniently placed on the GW side of the station to hide much of the roof and scenery beyond. The platform canopy obscures much of the view under the footbridge and the LNWR building does a very good job of hiding most of the rest. Here is a very rough Photoshop simulation. At the other end, the tracks disappear pretty close to the front of the diorama. The signal box obscures any view of the exit form the far end of the diorama - as roughly illustrated in this image, complete with bridge modifications. I know very little about GW signal boxes. Even so, the one at Dudley South looks interesting. Presumably an early box, with a brick chimney and fireplace in one corner. The brick below roof level appears to have been painted the same colour as the wood! The box also seems a bit narrow - probably necessary because it is in a bit of a tight spot. It was given a brick surround just before WW2. I am tempted to build it without that as the wooden framework looks more in keeping with the scene I wish to convey. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 I had set aside a picture frame I bought in a sale at a local DIY store as the frame for my baseboard. It is more or less a perfect size. I had to go to the local timber merchants today to get some stuff for other projects (mainly domestic) so I bought some plywood for the baseboard top too. Two cuts, some glue and a few tacks and I now have a baseboard ready for laying track. The board is long enough for a bit of non-scenic trackwork at either end, plus room at the back for controls and coffee mugs. I can add more baseboard fairly easily at the front if I decide to model the full width of the station after the DJLC is over. Things should go quiet for a while now, as I have far more pressing things to get on with! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 Just a doodle based on an old photograph... The area shown is a bit bigger than that I can include for the DJLC. Hopefully I can extend it very slightly later on to look more like this mock-up. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Its a great plan you've got there, interesting and should provide good operational potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted August 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2017 Are you going to build the model in black and white too (or should I say shades of grey)? I know this has been done before by at least one layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 7, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2017 Great idea. I think you may well get the most track into the space. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 Great idea. I think you may well get the most track into the space. Don Thanks Don. I have enough experience to build the track OK. I worry however that the complexity may be a big problem. I am guessing that the committee want as many people as possible to enter the competition - and particularly the less experienced modellers in the Association. If one entry stands out right from the beginning, it may put a lot of people off joining in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted September 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2017 Thanks Don. I have enough experience to build the track OK. I worry however that the complexity may be a big problem. I am guessing that the committee want as many people as possible to enter the competition - and particularly the less experienced modellers in the Association. If one entry stands out right from the beginning, it may put a lot of people off joining in. no I think the idea is to get procrastinators motivated, suggesting your entry is enough to put people off is unfair on the membership and yourself enjoy the ride Nick who is still undecided to enter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan W Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Thanks Don. I have enough experience to build the track OK. I worry however that the complexity may be a big problem. I am guessing that the committee want as many people as possible to enter the competition - and particularly the less experienced modellers in the Association. If one entry stands out right from the beginning, it may put a lot of people off joining in. I'm one of the less experienced modellers you mention. A regular lurker on these pages but I do not have much to contribute. Started a 2mm scale layout a few years ago but in the end ripped off all easitrac and replaced it with pcb sleepered n gauge trackwork. But the DJLC has pulled me back to finescale and I have more or less decided to enter a FS160 layout in a Dutch setting. Don't worry that entering your design will put us 'beginners' off. I see it as a challenge to build a working layout and I don't have any thoughts about awards or anything. Too many brillant modellers among the 2mmSA members and I look forward to meeting some of you. I just hope the fellow modellers will appreciate my effort and understand it will not be perfect. Jan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted September 7, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 7, 2017 I'm one of the less experienced modellers you mention. A regular lurker on these pages but I do not have much to contribute. Started a 2mm scale layout a few years ago but in the end ripped off all easitrac and replaced it with pcb sleepered n gauge trackwork. But the DJLC has pulled me back to finescale and I have more or less decided to enter a FS160 layout in a Dutch setting. Don't worry that entering your design will put us 'beginners' off. I see it as a challenge to build a working layout and I don't have any thoughts about awards or anything. Too many brillant modellers among the 2mmSA members and I look forward to meeting some of you. I just hope the fellow modellers will appreciate my effort and understand it will not be perfect. Jan Jan they will appreciate your efforts at the GJLC the late Steve Sykes wandered up to my pathetic GJLC challenge and offered me some wagons to run a true gentleman and the spirit of 2mm modelling Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 9, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 9, 2017 Thanks Don. I have enough experience to build the track OK. I worry however that the complexity may be a big problem. I am guessing that the committee want as many people as possible to enter the competition - and particularly the less experienced modellers in the Association. If one entry stands out right from the beginning, it may put a lot of people off joining in. There can be a lot of different choices. Some may focus on scenic detail with minimal track, so I cannot see why anyone should be put off. It will be interesting to see what you make of the trackwork. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Don, I drew the plan up in Templot a few weeks ago. It is generally quite straightforward. Just one single slip, a 3-way tandem turnout and a curious outside slip where the slip part is the (almost) straight road. The rest are just ordinary turnouts. I modified things slightly to avoid getting point blades in inaccessible places, but otherwise it is pretty faithful to the original. The big question is what happens 'off the pitch', so to speak. At the platform end, (RHS on the above diagram) several tracks are in close proximity, making cassettes awkward to fit in. I may need to make the non-scenic section longer so I can flare the tracks out enough to squeeze parallel cassettes in simultaneously. Some of the cassettes will need to stay in place for longish periods, as trains will inevitably be parked part on the cassette and part in the scenic area - particularly the GW up platform, where all trains waiting at the platform will park over the twilight zone and beyond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2017 Don, I drew the plan up in Templot a few weeks ago. It is generally quite straightforward. Just one single slip, a 3-way tandem turnout and a curious outside slip where the slip part is the (almost) straight road. The rest are just ordinary turnouts. I modified things slightly to avoid getting point blades in inaccessible places, but otherwise it is pretty faithful to the original. sadley_knott_2017_09_09_170.jpg The big question is what happens 'off the pitch', so to speak. At the platform end, (RHS on the above diagram) several tracks are in close proximity, making cassettes awkward to fit in. I may need to make the non-scenic section longer so I can flare the tracks out enough to squeeze parallel cassettes in simultaneously. Some of the cassettes will need to stay in place for longish periods, as trains will inevitably be parked part on the cassette and part in the scenic area - particularly the GW up platform, where all trains waiting at the platform will park over the twilight zone and beyond. I see your problem. At normal double track spacing each cassette would need to be around 22 mm wide. If you are using aluminium angle the smallest I have seen available is 3/8x3/8in so giving an overall width of 30mm. The 3/8 is much dearer than the 1/2in so allowing 35mm would be desirable. I would suggest that you allow a coach length before flaring the tracks so it doesn't show on the visible section ( half a coach at an angle would show up). The alternative would be to not use aluminium angle. Use a piece of 3/4 in aluminium channel inverted as a base with plastic or thin ply on the top and NS or Brass strip to make the running surfaces ( the old flat NS rail strip could be an option although something wider would make life easier in use.) Regards Don ps. the Aluminium Warehouse http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ can supply all sorts of sections Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Thanks Don. As I hope to extend the scenic bit after the DJLC, there needs to be parallel track placed where it should be for at least 1-2 coach lengths beyond the current scenic area in both directions. The current baseboard covers that area. That means I can put the cassettes and any deviation from the real track plan on fiddle yard boards either side of the scenic board. If I curve the running lines slightly towards the back at different radii, I can achieve the required separation without affecting the way trains look on the scenic area. Also, flaring the lines out would leave gaps for me to get my clumsy hands in to insert or remove cassettes. It also means that if I ever decided to extend the scenic area even more, I can just replace the non-scenic board/s without affecting the scenery already built. That, at least, is the theory! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Nice one,There is a lot of work involved though, it will certainly keep you busy for the next few years, I look forward to seeing it progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
£1.38 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) Nice one, There is a lot of work involved though, it will certainly keep you busy for the next few years, I look forward to seeing it progress Me too! Edited September 11, 2017 by £1.38 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Checking up on some BR-era track changes, I came across some 1960s 1:1,250 scale maps on a well known map site. I hadn't noticed these before, so suspect they are fairly new. The quality of the scans seems much better than with others on the site, so I indulged in digital copies covering the whole station area and the cutting leading up to the tunnel. From these I shall produce the absolute definitive plan for the model. These 'modern' maps have 1/10 KM squares drawn on them, so it is relatively easy to check the accuracy. Perhaps inevitably, the proportions are subtly different to other maps I have inspected. The area I plan to model looks marginally longer than previously estimated, but also slightly narrower. The former is a bit of a pain, but the latter is very good news. It means I can model a bit of scenery beyond the retaining wall at the back of the diorama. The map suggests I got one or two track details etc. very slightly wrong on my previous track plan. With that and the marginally different dimensions from the 1963 map, I plan to redraw the track plan from scratch. As Stuart suggests, there is a lot of modelling involved. I am looking at this as my ultimate 2mm model railway though, rather than just for the DJLC. The extra effort should be worthwhile. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 14, 2017 Author Share Posted September 14, 2017 Here's the latest track plan. I got my estimate of the width wrong in my last post - the width is pretty much the same as it always was, so I could only model as far as the retaining wall at the back for the DJLC and no further. That is fine. I have subtly moved a few turnouts so that tiebars don't end up under scenery. Otherwise, this version is pretty true to the 1963 prototype. The white area shows the scenic bit for the DJLC. The yellow area roughly show where the baseboard would extend to. The greyed out area would not exist in the DJLC version. At the LHS I would have to move the station buildings slightly to the right to allow half of the footbridge roof to be modelled. This is an apex roof, so the model would look odd without any roof showing at all. At the RHS of the scenic area, I would have to model a temporary retaining wall and bridge girder, to be replaced by a model of the real bridge and retaining wall in due course. If only we were allowed another 150mm in length! If I were building this purely for the DJLC I could probably live with the compromises. The more I look at the photos of the real thing though, the more convinced I am that it would make a far more satisfying model with the full yellow area modelled - plus a wider area at the front and rear too. In fact, all of that plus modelling the full width of the real road bridge on the right and just a tiny amount of the cutting beyond would make my perfect model - all on a board around 1 metre long.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Sorry folks, but I have decided to develop Sadley Knott (AKA Dudley) as a long term layout, free from the constraints of the DJLC. I think I will feel much happier building an extended version right from the start. I will probably set up a new topic or blog for it - but only after a lot more planning and research etc. Planning a layout both for the DJLC and as an extended version for later on at the same time was doing my head in. Just too many complications and compromises! In the meantime I am never short of ideas, so a new DJLC idea will appear here in a while. My latest thinking is that the DJLC offers an opportunity/excuse to try something just that little bit different - or maybe very different! Not just the layout, but the stock as well. This time, I hope to design something just to fit the DJLC rules and not for modification later on. Should make life much simpler - and hopefully a little more laid back! Edited September 16, 2017 by Echo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted September 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2017 I understand your reasons. The space for the DJLC is rather small for anything you might want long term. However will you have time to do both. I did wonder whether you could build a 4ft layout scenic half of it and screen off the other half and comply with the DJLC rules. That way you could make a small terminus and just feature the loco release at the platform end for the competition. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 .........or alternatively, model just the station throat. York old station was another idea I considered. The bit from the city walls to the overall roof is almost exactly spot on for the DJLC, if you exclude the goods shed and a couple of sidings in the foreground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 I was looking back over some very old ideas this afternoon, as it was raining heavily outside. This one could just be the smallest, weirdest DJLC idea so far... It is the station of the Lausanne-Ouchy Railway, directly opposite the main railway station in Lausanne - a standard gauge funicular that carried wagons as well as passengers. There was a link to the main line across the Place de la Gare, via a small turntable. This one would have to be viewed end-on from the Place de la Gare, as in the photo below. A turnout would have to be conjured up to fit the rules, but it would be fairly easy to fit one in. To complete the madness, I could move the location a short distance north to the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, complete with knights in shining armour. The craziest thing of all is that it might actually be a perfectly workable idea 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Did a bit more research this evening, including finding more pictures and a bit about how the line was operated. This is totally different in all sorts of ways to anything I have tried before, so maybe an ideal subject for the DJLC layout. Here's a nice photo, though I would be able to get little of it in the model The funicular station is just to the left of and behind the tram. Lots of interesting operational issues to sort out first though - like how to shunt the wagons, for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 A first stab at the track plan. Light blue trackwork is hidden track. I have replaced the wagon turntable with a sector plate, which should make shunting infinitely easier. Just an idea at the moment. Whilst the main viewing position would be from the RH end, a reasonable view might be obtainable from the bottom side too. I can form a better opinion when the layout is being built. Lots still to work out, including what to do with the tramways off the scenic part of the layout......but I feel I am getting somewhere! The main funicular will be operated by gravity and a rope made of cotton thread. I should be able to operate the terminating funicular with a motorised loco as the gradient on its track doesn't start until it gets into the tunnel. I am thinking of a powered steam tram loco for the wagon shuttle between the funicular and the main line. Not sure about the street tramways yet - depends on the period I model to some degree. Might even be steam powered. Just to clarify, this will be 2mm scale with 9.42mm gauge trackwork. Everything will pretty well have to be scratchbuilt anyway, so it makes sense. As to the period of the model, I am torn between inter-war and mid to late C19. Stock may well be different to that running in Lausanne. I quite fancy something a little more French for some reason. I am still studying photos and other information on the Internet to work out exactly how everything should be operated, but I am slowly getting a good insight. An explanation will follow in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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