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Hampton Malstead

blt design layout OO 4mm GWR devon terminus hampton malstead




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#101 Regularity

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:31

Phil,

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, whether or not you have a bay is up to you, and you alone.

There are examples of bay platforms at many GWR termini, but these are busier stations with regular heavy passenger traffic. If you wish to create the impression of a busy station, then go ahead.
Most GWR branchline termini did not have a bay, but that doesn’t stop you having two trains, and two engines, in the station at once.

You keep referring to “intensive” operation, but haven’t made it clear what you mean. You may not realise it, but there are two (at least) interpretations of this.
Firstly, and what I think you mean, many trains in the station at the same time;
Secondly, and what we usually see on model railways, a regular service without the long pauses between trains that happened on the real railway.

If you keep asking questions you will get many responses, but they will fall into two camps: the Model Railway point of view (it’s your layout, many people do include a bay platform, go ahead) or the Model of a Railway (GWR Branch termini nor this size were unlikely to have a bay platform.

As I said, you take the advice and make your choice, but it seems to me that you have decided to have a bay platform, but feel slightly ill-at-ease with the decision because you are aware that the “justification” with reference to a prototype is weak.

Which will make you happiest and what are you trying to achieve? How far down the path of realism do you want to go? How important to you is it to create a layout plan with the highest possible degree of plausibility, compared to the operational capacity (aka “play value”) of deviating slightly against the most typical arrangement on the prototype?

Were the wagons of the partially made up goods train left in the platform, or cleared into a siding or loop before the passenger train arrived?


They were left in the platform road, blocking the engine release crossover.
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#102 Harlequin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:34

If my memory can stretch back that far, the roster of locos on my first layout (my Dad's layout really) in the loft was:

  • Jinty
  • B12
  • Brush 47

That was the classic line-up. I have vague recollections of an 0-6-0 diesel shunter on that layout and certainly lots of others followed later when we moved house and got more ambitious.



#103 Harlequin

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:52

Phil,

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, whether or not you have a bay is up to you, and you alone.

There are examples of bay platforms at many GWR termini, but these are busier stations with regular heavy passenger traffic. If you wish to create the impression of a busy station, then go ahead.
Most GWR branchline termini did not have a bay, but that doesn’t stop you having two trains, and two engines, in the station at once.

You keep referring to “intensive” operation, but haven’t made it clear what you mean. You may not realise it, but there are two (at least) interpretations of this.
Firstly, and what I think you mean, many trains in the station at the same time;
Secondly, and what we usually see on model railways, a regular service without the long pauses between trains that happened on the real railway.

If you keep asking questions you will get many responses, but they will fall into two camps: the Model Railway point of view (it’s your layout, many people do include a bay platform, go ahead) or the Model of a Railway (GWR Branch termini nor this size were unlikely to have a bay platform.

As I said, you take the advice and make your choice, but it seems to me that you have decided to have a bay platform, but feel slightly ill-at-ease with the decision because you are aware that the “justification” with reference to a prototype is weak.

Which will make you happiest and what are you trying to achieve? How far down the path of realism do you want to go? How important to you is it to create a layout plan with the highest possible degree of plausibility, compared to the operational capacity (aka “play value”) of deviating slightly against the most typical arrangement on the prototype?
 

 

I was uneasy with the bay but only because I was unsure why such a feature might be rejected by you guys. If you were rejecting it on technical grounds then I might have abandoned it. But so far the responses seem to be simply that it was untypical - particularly on small BLTs. Fair enough this is useful info and it puts the ball back in my court, as you say.

 

Actually, I don't think I have used the term "intensive" - maybe only in the context of replies to others. I'm just aiming to have slightly more and, more interesting, operations than the "typical" small BLT would require in the real world. (In particular, more than one actor on stage at the same time.)

 

To that end I imagine that Hampton Malstead is a bigger town than Moretonhampstead. (But not as big as, say, Barnstaple or Tavistock). Thus, the station is a little more developed and generates some holiday traffic in a similar vein to Kingswear and St Ives because of it's famed moorland setting.


Edited by Harlequin, 19 January 2018 - 11:54 .

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#104 Regularity

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:29

Actually, I don't think I have used the term "intensive" - maybe only in the context of replies to others. I'm just aiming to have slightly more and, more interesting, operations than the "typical" small BLT would require in the real world. (In particular, more than one actor on stage at the same time.)

Apologies for ascribing a quote to you!
In terms of more than one actor on stage at a time, you can do that, as outlined above, without a bay platform, in fact it is more interesting without the platform.
Beyond that, you can only operate one train at a time anyway!

To that end I imagine that Hampton Malstead is a bigger town than Moretonhampstead. (But not as big as, say, Barnstaple or Tavistock). Thus, the station is a little more developed and generates some holiday traffic in a similar vein to Kingswear and St Ives because of it's famed moorland setting.

St. Ives, like Seaton on the Southern, was interesting in that the bay platform also served as a goods road when the station was less busy. Two passenger trains present at once is most likely to occur on summer Saturdays, for which goods wagons would be put onto a single siding or even taken away to be stored at another station.

That provides another thought for you, and an alternative plan. A bit like Woodstowe (RM May 2012), but with the goods shed road having access to the platform rather than it being fenced off.

#105 The Stationmaster

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 21:53

True; I was thinking of the Barnstaple layout which has a dedicated carriage siding. 

 

I'm I right in thinking that a train couldn't be accepted into the section if the road wasn't set for the arrival line (platform road), or would it be possible to accept a train and halt it at the down home?

 

 

Bodmin had a special 'calling on' arrangement for accepting a passenger train where there was already a train occupying the platform. (Bodmin didn't have a bay.)

GWR Single Line Regulations allowed trains to be accepted at a terminus if the line was clear to the point to which the train usually runs.  Basically this meant the platform line had to be clear at least part way into the platform but the remainder of the platform could be occupied (which seems to be how Bodmin was worked although it is possible the Warning Arrangement might have been authorised there although it was unusual for it to be authorised at single line termini.

 

Because the Regulations required all relevant points to be set and bolted when a train was accepted and it was not permitted to alter any points until the train had come to a stand at the Home Signal all trains would normally be accepted towards the platform and of course in virtually every single line terminus the platform line offered the longest place to run round so it use was made even more logical by that feature,  if there was any passenger stock or a passenger train at the terminus when the freight was booked to arrive it would usually be shunted aside to allow acceptance of the freight but in the case of many lines the freight arrived during a gap in the passenger service although it could/would be still there when the next passenger train arrived.

 

Ashburton is often quoted as an example but it needs to be remembered taht teh working there was somewhat unusual as it was worked in accordance with South Devon Railway Regulations well into the GWR era (and probably until the end of its days) and some strange things took place there including the arrival of a second train on what was technically a One Engine In Steam section of line.  It also needs to be remembered that various local relaxations could be given although generally with the standard acceptance at a GWR single line terminus they were hardly necessary!

 

Once the BR Regulations came in during 1960 things had to change as they required the line to be clear to the stopblocks at a single line terminus in order to accept a train under an ordinary Line Clear.


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#106 clachnaharry

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Posted Yesterday, 11:13

Does this mean that the pracice sometimes seen on model railway branch line termini, where a goods train arrives into the run round loop whilst the branch passenger sits in the platform road, is technically incorrect?

Edited by clachnaharry, Yesterday, 11:14 .


#107 Compound2632

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Posted Yesterday, 11:24

Does this mean that the pracice sometimes seen on model railway branch line termini, where a goods train arrives into the run round loop whilst the branch passenger sits in the platform road, is technically incorrect?

 

Our club has an exhibition layout which is roughly the mirror image of the plan under discussion, where this move (and an arrival into the bay) is made possible by a three-doll splitting inner home - a working signal (though not interlocked). As has been discussed, this extravagance is more appropriate to a much larger station but it does permit a greater density of traffic in the station in a manner which is, I think, permissible, if unlikely. It's that balance between providing entertainment in accordance with the rules and truly prototypical if dull operation. How this balance works out will be different according to whether the layout is for home use or for exhibition, as well as, of course, your personal preferences.


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#108 Miss Prism

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Posted Yesterday, 12:05

Does this mean that the pracice sometimes seen on model railway branch line termini, where a goods train arrives into the run round loop whilst the branch passenger sits in the platform road, is technically incorrect?

 

Not necessarily. Taking Bodmin again as an example, goods/clays entered/exited the loop if the platform was occupied or signalled for a departure or arrival. (Bodmin is perhaps atypical though, being a busy 'several engines in steam' situation, as well as being a junction of course.)


Edited by Miss Prism, Yesterday, 13:29 .









Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: blt, design, layout, OO, 4mm, GWR, devon, terminus, hampton malstead

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