N Gauge China Clay small layout

[Snotty]

As I cant drive at the moment as Ive injured my knee, and the fact I need something to do and havent actually got round to building a layout, I thought I'd do something about it

Anyway, Ive done a rough track "plan" on my computer using paint

 

 

Its going to be a mini N Gauge china clay layout in modern image times, the track going into the loading docks would be covered with the tracks "concreted" to allow road vehicles to be loaded as well.

The baseboards will be 4ft by maybe 1 or 2 ft wide

Im open to critiscms good or bad on this

[Jim the Tram]

I'd download Anyrail as it'll be a lot easier to use for this than MS Paint.

[Karhedron]

Looks like a nice little cameo layout. If you want to modern image china clay in N gauge then maybe get some of the Dapol weathered silver bullets while they are still available. They are really nice but this may be the last batch of the weathered ones.

[Snotty]

Looks like a nice little cameo layout. If you want to modern image china clay in N gauge then maybe get some of the Dapol weathered silver bullets while they are still available. They are really nice but this may be the last batch of the weathered ones.

 

Thats what gave me the inspiration, and flicking through my china clay books B)

I note your from Basingstoke too

[Wherry Lines]

As Jim suggests, I would download some layout planning software to aid your design. Anyrail is one option, and xtrkcad is another.

 

Using computer software will enable you to create a trackplan to within acceptable tolerances, and see what you can fit in. You mention you have baseboards of around 4' x 1' or 2'. Do you have more than 1 board? Even if you have 1, that's still a reasonable space to fit in an interesting layout. You could certainly add a couple more siding into the that space to increase the operational interest.

[Snotty]

As Jim suggests, I would download some layout planning software to aid your design. Anyrail is one option, and xtrkcad is another.

 

Using computer software will enable you to create a trackplan to within acceptable tolerances, and see what you can fit in. You mention you have baseboards of around 4' x 1' or 2'. Do you have more than 1 board? Even if you have 1, that's still a reasonable space to fit in an interesting layout. You could certainly add a couple more siding into the that space to increase the operational interest.

 

I dont have the baseboards yet, but was planning on using sundeala board from Alton Model Centre, and was thinking of using a smaller board as the fiddle yard.

What other sidings would I be able to add to the plan, something like wagon storage for empties/loaded? Ive been looking through books on china clay and most of the prototype sites have the siding through to the loading area and a run round for the loco.....

Is Anyrail easier than using xtrkcad?

[Jim the Tram]

I dont have the baseboards yet, but was planning on using sundeala board from Alton Model Centre, and was thinking of using a smaller board as the fiddle yard.

What other sidings would I be able to add to the plan, something like wagon storage for empties/loaded? Ive been looking through books on china clay and most of the prototype sites have the siding through to the loading area and a run round for the loco.....

Is Anyrail easier than using xtrkcad?

I found Anyrail quite intuitive having never used this type of railway layout software before. Never used xtrkcad so don't really know the differences.

[TomJ]

Just found this thread - am always pleased to see more china clay layouts, especially in N gauge. Here's a suggestion of a small plan from me. It's scaled down from a plan I found a while back in the RM - it was originally designed for 6ft in OO so I've scaled it to 2/3rds in N to fit your 4ft. Its inspired by the smaller clay works such as Ponts Mill and Carbis and whilst it'll look a little silly with a 66 and 38 CDA wagons it would be ideal for an 08 or 37 and a few wagons

 

The idea is that the fiddle yard on the left is a sector plate, traverser or cassette. Trains leave this and are visible for a short while along the 'mainline' before reversing on the sector plate back in to the works. The main dries would handle clayhoods or CDA wagons whilst bagged clay is loaded into vans at the loading dock. You can even run other wagons or even a DMU shuttling along the line at the back.

 

HTH

[Snotty]

Just found this thread - am always pleased to see more china clay layouts, especially in N gauge. Here's a suggestion of a small plan from me. It's scaled down from a plan I found a while back in the RM - it was originally designed for 6ft in OO so I've scaled it to 2/3rds in N to fit your 4ft. Its inspired by the smaller clay works such as Ponts Mill and Carbis and whilst it'll look a little silly with a 66 and 38 CDA wagons it would be ideal for an 08 or 37 and a few wagons

 

The idea is that the fiddle yard on the left is a sector plate, traverser or cassette. Trains leave this and are visible for a short while along the 'mainline' before reversing on the sector plate back in to the works. The main dries would handle clayhoods or CDA wagons whilst bagged clay is loaded into vans at the loading dock. You can even run other wagons or even a DMU shuttling along the line at the back.

 

HTH

 

Cheers for that Tom, much better than anything I could have done

Any ideas where I can get the relevant buildings and clay hoods from?

[TomJ]

Glad all my daydreaming is of use to someone!

AFAIK the buildings will all have to be scatchbuilt. However the dries were generally long low sheds open at the front in which the clay was dried and then loaded into the wagons. Shouldn't be too difficult to build and there's loads of photos on the web or in books to guide you - in can give suggestions if needed but look on here at Wheal Elizabeth and you'll get a pretty good idea of the set up (and a standard I dream of!).

 

As far as wagons go the clayhoods are avaliable as a kit from Parkwood models, through the n gauge society. The later CDAs are made by Peco. Bagged clay was transported in vans such as ferry wagons, VDAs and VBAs from Dapol and Farish. I'm still waiting for someone to make a kit or rtr of the clay tiger wagons

 

HTH

[Snotty]

Glad all my daydreaming is of use to someone!

AFAIK the buildings will all have to be scatchbuilt. However the dries were generally long low sheds open at the front in which the clay was dried and then loaded into the wagons. Shouldn't be too difficult to build and there's loads of photos on the web or in books to guide you - in can give suggestions if needed but look on here at Wheal Elizabeth and you'll get a pretty good idea of the set up (and a standard I dream of!).

 

As far as wagons go the clayhoods are avaliable as a kit from Parkwood models, through the n gauge society. The later CDAs are made by Peco. Bagged clay was transported in vans such as ferry wagons, VDAs and VBAs from Dapol and Farish. I'm still waiting for someone to make a kit or rtr of the clay tiger wagons

 

HTH

 

Yeah, its waaaay better than I could ever have done lol

I was planning on using low relief Metcalfe factory type buildings (to see how things would look), but then its probably best to just scratch build the buildings from the start?

Ive got a few Faish VGAs which from pics in books were used on china clay trains!!

[TomJ]

I've had a look at the Metcalfe Models factory and think you'd be better off scratchbuilding, the model would need an awful lot of altering to make a plausible clay works. First off it's brick which was very rare, the older ones being stone and modern works typical corrugated iron, asbestos etc.

 

You need to have a think about which part of the modern era you are modelling. The classical dries were coal fired, the last rail served one Carbis closed in 1989. These buildings are the long sheds, often open at the front with a furnace at one end and a tall chimney at the other. Modern clay works are huge clay stores with pitched roof with all sorts of ancillary buildings. There may well be loading docks and platforms for bagged clay, the powder is often loaded straight into the wagons.

 

And yes the Farish VGAs will be ideal!

 

HTH

[Etched Pixels]

For a small depot there are some photos of the old Heathfield setup on 85a (apparently tthe pointwork is especially interesting to trackwork fans)

 

http://85a.co.uk/for...424&forum_id=11

 

much like your original sketch but with the loop and unloading area separate, the former being the remains of the loop on what was once a branch to Bovey Tracey

 

Some of the trains were also rather convenient for a microlayout

 

http://merlinsgallery.fotopic.net/p68084514.html

[bcnPete]

Stewart - only just found this.

 

Not withstanding all the advice given previously, I would choose a particular china clay building from a photo and model that - you may be able to research the building and get additional pictures to help with the build.

 

I look forward to see your progress - good luck.

 

Pete

[Karhedron]

PD Marsh make a kit of the Wenford china clay works. It is quite expensive but on a small layout you may feel it is worth it to make a centerpiece (not the traditional linhay dries though).

 

http://www.pdmarshmodels.com/show_product.php?pid=306

 

The other option is to scratch build. Clay dries are well photographed and some quite small ones remained open well into 80s IIRC. The tiles on the roof were spaced to aid the drying of the clay but in N gauge you could probably get away with normal tiling sheet.

 

I dont have the baseboards yet, but was planning on using sundeala board from Alton Model Centre, and was thinking of using a smaller board as the fiddle yard.

Sounds like you are in my neck of the woods, maybe see you at Febex at the weekend?

 

Sundeala may not be the best choice of material. Although I have used it on my current layout, it is prone to warping if it gets damp at all. My advice would be to use good quality 6mm ply for a layout this sort of size. Contact a good timber merchant and get them to cut all the pieces to size for you. Then when it arrives you can put it together almost like a flat-pack kit. It costs a bit more but you can be sure of straight, square cuts and it is a lot cheaper then a pre-built baseboard.

[TomJ]

I think Pete gives very good advice regarding choosing a prototype for the dries. There are loads of photos in most of the books on Cornish Railways - anything by John Vaughan is a good starting point. Obviously most of the pics are of trains not the more obscure corners of clay works but you get the general idea. Even if not slavishly copying a prototype using the photos will make sure it looks right. As most of the works are fairly block like industrial buildings scratchbuilding is pretty straightforward. The complex tanks etc for the drying were usually at the back so if modelling in low relief you can avoid them!

 

Mind you I have used the P D Marsh kit with adaptions for my layout. It is a fabulous kit which goes together well and was a great project for a while. It's certainally a good centre piece on a small layout

[bcnPete]

As most of the works are fairly block like industrial buildings scratchbuilding is pretty straightforward.

 

Unless they happen to be on a curve like some of us have chosen...

[TomJ]

Ah yes I forgot about the curved dry at Moorswater! Still as a 2mm finescale modeller I wouldn't expect you to take the easy route!

There are however many prototypes of long straight buildings that are easier to build. For an older style dry consider Wenford Bridge or Carbis Wharf. The later was the last coal fired traditional dry in Cornwall rail served until 1989. It's been coverted into a guesthouse so it still stands and can be seen well on Google streetview. Actually streetview is good for looking at many of the surviving modern works

 

HTH

[Stoker]

If you're still going ahead with this, I have a few pointers for scratchbuilding the clay dry.

 

When building an older type coal fired china clay dry, consider that it must be built on a hillside. Although they appear to be simple "long sheds" from the front, they are actually asymmetrical in profile. Also remember that generally the passing loop must be directly in front of the building. The entire frontage of the building is designed to be used to load wagons, so that the train would not have to be moved, and so that this train could stand in front of the building while the locomotive ran around it. Therefore, avoid placing points in front of the building.

 

 

Here you can see the side profile of a typical building. This shows the general arrangement of the loading edge, storage floor, drying floor, and the rectangular open air settling tanks at the rear. At one gable end of the dry was the furnace, this was usually a lean-to structure or gabled addition. At the other end was the chimney, which was always a stand-alone two stage structure, granite two thirds lower stage, brick third upper, and was usually circular in profile.

 

China clay drys were generally between 40 and 60 feet in external width, and anywhere from 100 to 300 feet in external length. The tracks were usually between 5 and 8 feet below the loading edge, and the front wall above that with the loading doors could be anywhere from 7 and a half to 12 feet in height. Loading doors were often top hinged, some were swapped for sliding doors, some had no doors, and some had side hinged doors. The doorways could be anywhere from 5 to 10 feet wide, with as much as 15 feet or as little as 1 foot between them.. The rear wall facing the settling tanks would usually be around 7 or 8 feet high, with the settling tank walls being usually a foot lower. Construction material for the entire building was traditionally granite with a slate roof, some having elaborate brick arched doorways. Later buildings used a mixture of granite, concrete block, mass concrete, corrugated iron roofing, and corrugated asbestos roofing.

 

Era wise, the last coal fired clay dry stopped work in 1991, but the majority of them ceased in the early 1970s. 5 or 6 of the old buildings continued to be used in a modified form for the storage of china clay, which was processed in more recent additional buildings containing mechanical drying equipment of various types. The most recent of these to be shut down was Crugwallins siding, serving the Burngullow Tube press.

 

Hope this helps, and good luck with your project.

[TomJ]

The joys of N Gauge. A 200ft long dried building scales out at only 40cm - less than 18inches so you can easily fit an impressive building in your space. The asymetrical nature and the width can be easily got round with the time honoured low relief, even in a small space the scenary can be made to hint at the hillside behind.

I think you can also get away without positioning the run round loop directly in front of the dries as long as all wagons can lie in front without moving. After all many clayworks such as Carbis Wharf or Ponts Mill had no run round.

 

I too look forward to seeing some progress and pics

[Stoker]

The joys of N Gauge. A 200ft long dried building scales out at only 40cm - less than 18inches so you can easily fit an impressive building in your space. The asymetrical nature and the width can be easily got round with the time honoured low relief, even in a small space the scenary can be made to hint at the hillside behind.

I think you can also get away without positioning the run round loop directly in front of the dries as long as all wagons can lie in front without moving. After all many clayworks such as Carbis Wharf or Ponts Mill had no run round.

 

I too look forward to seeing some progress and pics

 

"Low relief" can, and often does, involve simply excluding the settling tanks from the rear of the building, as these were often in the region of 70+ feet long. The building itself should scale out at around 10cm wide. So in a space less than a foot wide you can model pretty much any clay dry. The only restriction would be available length, since clay companies had a habit of daisy-chaining several kilns together in rows of two or sometimes more, and then placing several other kilns along the same siding. Wenford drys for instance consists of no less than 6 connected drying units, which puts it at around 1200 feet, or 2.4 meters in N scale. Before it became the monstrous modern affair that we see today, blackpool sidings was very similar, as shown in the photo below.

 

 

The photo below demonstrates the interior a little better. To the top right we can see the access doors to the settling tanks, which were boarded up when full. The drying floor is also visible, and in the centre we can see clay stacked against the wall on the storage floor. To the left some men are bagging clay, and the far left is the loading edge and tracks below. This photograph was taken at wheal rose, near carbis.

 

 

The boards on the floor were used to bridge the gap between wagons and the loading edge. Wheelbarrows were generally used for loading, and were wheeled onto the plank before being skillfully tipped into the wagon. I say skillfully because I'm told there was a bit of an art to getting all that clay into the wagon without accidentally losing control of the wheelbarrow, and spending ten minutes fishing it out of the wagon or out from between the wagon and the loading edge! These would all make great details for a model.

[bcnPete]

Great photos Scott - Perfect for a few internal cameo's...

 

Any more progress on the layout Stewart?

[TomJ]

Can I just say a huge thanks to Stoker for all his advice on this and other threads about china clay facilities. Obviously most photos tend to concentrate on the trains so this info is very helpful for us building clay dries to get it right

 

again many thanks

[Stoker]

Can I just say a huge thanks to Stoker for all his advice on this and other threads about china clay facilities. Obviously most photos tend to concentrate on the trains so this info is very helpful for us building clay dries to get it right

 

again many thanks

 

That's what it's all about for me. Trains are trains, they only become really interesting when they're connected to an industry. Not speaking for everyone here but for some reason china clay draws a lot of interest, and I think it's partly due to the fact that it's quite unique. The buildings are all part of it, most the well known sidings have some "iconic" landmark buildings that we all recognise. Blackpool silos, carbis wharf's wheal prosper dry with the beehive kilns nearby, etc. Part of the satisfaction for me was getting the buildings "right" and understanding the way this fascinating industry works, past and present.

 

I've been studying it for god knows how long. Nearly a decade. Unlike others I have the luxury of living in Cornwall and being able to poke around the old buildings at my leisure... and I still have questions. I wouldn't have it any other way to be honest. I wouldn't choose to model any other industry in any other part of the world.

[norfolkchinaclay]

Been away from RM Web for a while and it's changed quite a bit!

 

Love this thread though - lots of useful info, and plenty of references to Carbis Wharf which I've always had a hankering to model (maybe with the second siding back in situ!) Either there or Nanpean Wharf with it couple of sidings...

 

I use GoogleMaps streetview frequently at work but have never thought to use it to view potential model sites!

 

Reading the last post, I got interested in china clay after a holiday in cornwall a few years ago - I became fascinated and tried to get as many of the books as I could. The continuing availablilty of the Bachmann clay hoods was also an appeal. Shame the axleboxes are wrong and most of the hoods are "ball clay" ones with the stripe as I've since discovered! Like the previous contributor, where I live, grain was the big commodity for trip workings and shunting in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up, but the track layout of the sidings were pretty dull and often away from a passenger station. The exception being newmarket with it's one or two-car dmu service (then about two a day!) I never did manage to get hold of a couple of the Grainflow polybulk wagons that Replica Railways were going to produce - have these ever made it onto ebay??

 

Back to china clay, I still cannot decide on steam or diesel era (was thinking early to mid 1970s so I can run the green class 25 with full yellow ends I came across on ebay about six years ago!) I always was a diesel modeller in my teens but since my interest in the prototype was re-awakened in my mid-thirties I'm really only interested in steam and the Beattie well tanks recenly produced by Dapol/Kernow would be perfect for a minimum space layout (mine needs to be very minimum but N is just too fiddly) but are a bit too restrictive in terms of representing the real thing as opposed to say a class 08 (you seem to call them "sheds" on here nowadays...!)

 

What I would very much like to know is, did the 'modern' covered hoppers as produced by Bachmann ever work very much, and from where to where? I've come across few references to them ever in any books, let alone any photos of them in traffic! And what did they carry, was it calcified seaweed?