br-nse-fan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi All I was recently given 8 Hornby Pullman coaches by my Dad... minus couplers. These are the older release of the high detail models that do not have NEM pockets on them, but rather a post with a screw. I've searched the site, and not found my answer, so apologies if it's been answered elsewhere... I am using Kadee's on the rest of my stock... is there any way of fitting them without major surgery? Is there a more suitable means of close coupling them as they will remain in a semi-fixed rake... broken up only when removed from the rails... again.. preferably without major surgery. Is it possible to get replacement "posts" that include NEM pockets, like the newer releases of these coaches? Many thanks in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi All I was recently given 8 Hornby Pullman coaches by my Dad... minus couplers. These are the older release of the high detail models that do not have NEM pockets on them, but rather a post with a screw. I've searched the site, and not found my answer, so apologies if it's been answered elsewhere... I am using Kadee's on the rest of my stock... is there any way of fitting them without major surgery? Is there a more suitable means of close coupling them as they will remain in a semi-fixed rake... broken up only when removed from the rails... again.. preferably without major surgery. Is it possible to get replacement "posts" that include NEM pockets, like the newer releases of these coaches? Many thanks in advance! I believe that Hornby was, at one time, making NEM-equipped arms available. They do require de-soldering the pickup wires from the bogie and re-soldering them, since the wires go through the loop of the arm. However, it is reasonably easy to use Kadees with these coaches. You can attach an NEM Kadee (a #19 IIRC) to the post by slipping the tines either side of the screw and then tightening the screw to retain them. This works better if you drill/file the inner edges of the tines to make them more like a clip - so they clip around the screw (it also reduces the chance of breaking a tine off). You could also do this with a Roco, Hornby, or Fleischmann NEM coupler. This takes advantage of the fact that the mounting for a standard straight tension-lock coupling is almost exactly at the height of an NEM pocket. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi Adrian Thanks for the reply. Would the Bachmann EZ-mate MKII be an option? I think they are the same length as a Kadee #20... but I have a huge pile of these couplers, with nothing to attach them to. I know they are not as good as they actual kadee's, but with a train length of only 5 coaches... would they suffice? Also... have you given any further thought on my request for help w/ the Keen Couplers? Thanks! Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 To replace the couplings to original spec use R8099 couplings from Hornby. To close couple them I used Bachmann Mk2 mini couplings and cut them to fit around the posts. Depending on the radius of your curves use the long or short couplings or even a mixture of all 3 types. I also used the Bachmann couplings on Hornbys Mk2 & Mk3 coaches as well. The corridor connections virtually touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry J Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 To replace the couplings to original spec use R8099 couplings from Hornby. To close couple them I used Bachmann Mk2 mini couplings and cut them to fit around the posts. Depending on the radius of your curves use the long or short couplings or even a mixture of all 3 types. I also used the Bachmann couplings on Hornbys Mk2 & Mk3 coaches as well. The corridor connections virtually touch. Pondy, could you give us a bit more detail of how you use Bachmann mk2 couplings on Hornby Mk3 coaches - i've converted all my Dapol/Hornby mk2's very succesfully, but when I recently tried to do the same with a mk3 I couldn't get them to work at all thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Pondy, could you give us a bit more detail of how you use Bachmann mk2 couplings on Hornby Mk3 coaches - i've converted all my Dapol/Hornby mk2's very succesfully, but when I recently tried to do the same with a mk3 I couldn't get them to work at all thanks. I agree... I would be interested in seeing how you have accomplished this also! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 When it comes to the Mk3s just change one coupling per coach other wise the hooks won't reach each other again it depends on the tightness of your curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi Adrian Thanks for the reply. Would the Bachmann EZ-mate MKII be an option? I think they are the same length as a Kadee #20... but I have a huge pile of these couplers, with nothing to attach them to. I know they are not as good as they actual kadee's, but with a train length of only 5 coaches... would they suffice? Also... have you given any further thought on my request for help w/ the Keen Couplers? Thanks! Derek The EZ-Mate MkII would be an option. They will be a little long, but you could modify them to sit closer in. I haven't completely forgotten the Keen couplers. It was the Bachmann Colletts you wanted pics of, wasn't it? Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 You can fit Kadees to them very easilly - take a NEM Kadee (probably a 20), drill a hole through the plastic shank and screw fix in place using the screw that holds the tension lock in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 The EZ-Mate MkII would be an option. They will be a little long, but you could modify them to sit closer in. I haven't completely forgotten the Keen couplers. It was the Bachmann Colletts you wanted pics of, wasn't it? Adrian Hi Adrian I have a number of coaches that I'd like to upgrade their couplers on... Bachmann : Colletts & Bullieds Hornby : MK1's (recent releases w/ flush windows) Airfix/Dapol : MK2d's I did have some of the Hornby GWR Collett, but I think I mangled them in my attempt to install the couplers.... I know I mangled a couple pairs of couplers in my installation attempts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Re the Mk2Ds you can fit Kadees to them by following the example for Airfix/Dapol mounts shown at http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/other/mti_article.shtml. Having fitted Kadees to such mounts I did not cut the Kadee short as recommended by the article but instead, holding the NEM prongs of the Kadee together, drilled a hole through the prongs which then fit neatly round the moulded "pin" in the Airfix/Dapol mount. You will see earlier in the article the hole drilling method for fitting NEM Kadees to screw fits - with regard to the Pullmans it might be a case of drilling through the prongs (as described above) rather than the plastic shank if the screw point is too far back. I have done it myself to some Pullmans but have now sold them so do not a reference to check back on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Thanks for the replies guys... I tried one of the Kadee clone couplers from Bachmann, and they sit too low, quite a bit too low in fact. I believe this is because there is a 'peg' that the original Hornby coupler clips on to. I looked at the size of the 'peg', and it looks to be too large fit a Kadee on to. If I am to drill a hole large enough, there would not be enough material left, and the coupler will fall off if any significant weight is applied. What I might try doing instead... is to see if I can use one of the Kadee 'whisker' couplings, as they have a small round hole that may work. Did not have a chance to try last night, but will check the next time I am in the basement. One other thought... I am only concerned with Kadee's at either end of the train, as the coaches will remain in a semi-fixed rake... so if there is a better alternative between cars, let me know! Anyone have any other thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Thanks for the replies guys... I tried one of the Kadee clone couplers from Bachmann, and they sit too low, quite a bit too low in fact. I believe this is because there is a 'peg' that the original Hornby coupler clips on to. I looked at the size of the 'peg', and it looks to be too large fit a Kadee on to. If I am to drill a hole large enough, there would not be enough material left, and the coupler will fall off if any significant weight is applied. Yes, you need to get the coupler to sit around the peg. I found that the screw would trap a Kadee #19 - and the shorter coupler allowed the drilled out area to be further out where the tines are more flexible, so less material needed to be removed. What I might try doing instead... is to see if I can use one of the Kadee 'whisker' couplings, as they have a small round hole that may work. Did not have a chance to try last night, but will check the next time I am in the basement. This won't work, as the coupler heads on normal Kadees don't have the vertical offset of the NEM variants, so the coupler will sit too low. One other thought... I am only concerned with Kadee's at either end of the train, as the coaches will remain in a semi-fixed rake... so if there is a better alternative between cars, let me know! You could clip off the trip pins of the Kadee/Bachmann couplers within the rake - it then would not matter that the coupling is too low. You could also use either the pin/hole couplers or the cosmetic buckeyes from the Keen couplers (drill out the shank so that it fits over the peg). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Just drill the prongs slightly so that they engauge around the peg with the prongs widening apart as oppossed to being parallel to each other Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 This won't work, as the coupler heads on normal Kadees don't have the vertical offset of the NEM variants, so the coupler will sit too low. I thought I saw ones with off-set heads where they are above the shank... must have been mistaken. They might, however, be an option for the between car connections... like you said previously, if I remove the trip pin, won't make too much of a difference if they are 'too low'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I thought I saw ones with off-set heads where they are above the shank... must have been mistaken. There are 'underset shank' couplers, but they still don't raise the head as much as an NEM coupler. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter jf Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Hi Adrian, I have 3 Hornby pullmans with NEM scokets and new couplings and 6 with older couplings fixed with screws. I was thinking I would have to replace cams. (tricky job). Read your contribution and went and had another close look. Removed plastic knob on existing cam and drilled new coupling and gingerly screwed into place. Eureka! Worked perfectly. Modified remaining 11 ends and now have matching close new close couplings that match on all pullmans. 8 coach pullman train now runs perfectly on my layout. Best bit of advice I have had for ages. Thank you for your for you contribution, you have made 1 modeller very happy. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi Adrian, I have 3 Hornby pullmans with NEM scokets and new couplings and 6 with older couplings fixed with screws. I was thinking I would have to replace cams. (tricky job). Read your contribution and went and had another close look. Removed plastic knob on existing cam and drilled new coupling and gingerly screwed into place. Eureka! Worked perfectly. Modified remaining 11 ends and now have matching close new close couplings that match on all pullmans. 8 coach pullman train now runs perfectly on my layout. Best bit of advice I have had for ages. Thank you for your for you contribution, you have made 1 modeller very happy. Peter Hi Peter Glad someone was able to get information out of this, other than myself! I was playing with couplers last night also, and am having a devil of a time getting the spacing right. Good thing I am using the cheap Bachmann couplers! Could you be so kind as to tell me the distance from the flat face of the knuckle to the screw hole? Could you possibly even post a couple photo's? If I am reading your post correctly, you removed the 'peg' from the 'post' (terminology I used in a previous post)? How close are your coaches running together? I am hoping to get something close to what the Bachmann MK1 / MK2 coaches obtain when using close coupling. Thanks again to all who have replied thus far! Derek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I have a number of coaches that I'd like to upgrade their couplers on... Bachmann : Colletts & Bullieds Hi BR-NSE-FAN Converting a Bachmann Bulleid to use Kaydees is quite easy: Remove tension lock coupling (by cutting) and leave the flat platform part of coupling Remove section of horizontal stretcher at rear of the flat platform Glue a Kaydee #5 on top of the platform (pushing it back until the screwhole lugs hit the outer parts of the stretcher) To see how close this gets, look at one of my old posts (sorry but can't work out how to put in a link!): Bachmann Bulleid Coach Conversions (Another Tavern to visit) in Questions / Help (started by Mallard) Scroll down to Post #8 for some photos of how close the coaches are coupled. They both have Keen Systems relacement corridor connections. I've also used Keen Systems close coupling units (the ones with two pins / two holes) on another rake of Bachmann Bulleid coaches and despite having no self-centering they work well. Hope this helps Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I was playing with couplers last night also, and am having a devil of a time getting the spacing right. Good thing I am using the cheap Bachmann couplers! Could you be so kind as to tell me the distance from the flat face of the knuckle to the screw hole? It really depends on what your minimum curve and whether (and where) you will be shunting/backing trains. A rule of thumb would be to have the flat face level with the buffer faces, but I find that I can get away with a little closer than that for wagons that are going to run in set trains on Bridge Street (3' minimum radius, roundy-round). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I've also used Keen Systems close coupling units (the ones with two pins / two holes) on another rake of Bachmann Bulleid coaches and despite having no self-centering they work well. The mechanics of the mechanism and the bar coupler mean that close coupling mechanisms don't need self-centering when coupled. The self-centering is only there to return the coupling to centre when it isn't coupled, and so only needs the very light springs as seen in the RTR mechanisms (or the aftermarket ones by Fleischmann or Roco). This lack of self-centering under load is why using these mechanisms with couplers that don't create a solid bar (like Kadees or tension locks) can cause running problems with longer trains. It is also the reason why they work - if they agressively self-centered they would defeat the intent of the mechanism. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter jf Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi Derek Here goes, my first attempt at photos Left Coach new type unmodified Hornby pullman, Right modified coupling Underside with amended coupling and amended peg Hope this helps Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi BR-NSE-FAN Converting a Bachmann Bulleid to use Kaydees is quite easy: (edited for space) Hope this helps Mike Fantastic info Mike! I won't be using the floating corridor connections (yet), as right now I am more interested in getting the coaches to sit closer together. Sitting next to Bachmann MK1's, Maunsels and the new Hornby Staniers certainly causes one to stop and notice the glaring difference on the older stock It really depends on what your minimum curve and whether (and where) you will be shunting/backing trains. A rule of thumb would be to have the flat face level with the buffer faces, but I find that I can get away with a little closer than that for wagons that are going to run in set trains on Bridge Street (3' minimum radius, roundy-round). Adrian Hi Adrian... There in lies the problem.. I don't have a layout constructed at the moment. What I am hoping to acheive is a coupling mechanism close to what Bachmann have acheived with their stock... as well as the afore mentioned Maunsels. I won't be using any set track curves, but I would think that any curves on my layout will not be any tighter than 18"... as I know the MK1's and Maunsels go around this size of radius on my Dad's layout, I'm thinking that I should have a similar result on mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi Derek Here goes, my first attempt at photos Left Coach new type unmodified Hornby pullman, Right modified coupling Underside with amended coupling and amended peg Hope this helps Peter Hi Peter Many thanks for the photo's! Not quite as close as I was hoping to get in terms of coupling distance (see Bachmann MK1 / MK2 coaches)... but I don't know if this is even possible with the Hornby coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br-nse-fan Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hi Derek Here goes, my first attempt at photos Left Coach new type unmodified Hornby pullman, Right modified coupling Underside with amended coupling and amended peg Hope this helps Peter Peter, Are you using the supplied Hornby coupler, or the shorter Roco coupler? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.