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Invermire (was More first ventures in O Gauge)

O-MF Blue Diesels Scotland




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#1 mike knowles

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:19

I mentioned on Dave Siddall’s excellent thread “O Gauge - First Tentative Steps†that we at Hessle MRG were about to embark on our first venture in the “Senior Scaleâ€. Rather than keep hijacking Dave’s thread with reports on our progress I said I would start a separate thread once we had got something worthwhile to show – so here goes.
At the moment we are still at initial track planning stage and following discussions at the club we have decided to do something based on a Scottish coastal terminus set in the 1970’s - inspired by Kyle of Lochalsh without necessarily being based on it. No name yet but one suggestion is Kyle of Loch Ness-Bit with Rab C as stationmaster – we’ll have to see!
Space available is approximately 6m (max) length by up to 0.9m wide (so we can still reach the stock for uncoupling etc). Trackwork following on from our previous OO layout Battersby North End will be handbuilt using C&L and Exactoscale rail and chairs on home produced ply sleepers laid on C&L templates. As with Battersby we will standardise on B6 turnouts.
So far we have purchased the C&L templates (boy do they look big compared to the OO counterparts – the sheer size of things is going to take some getting used to). Quarter scale copies of these were then made (including a quarter scale loco, 2 coaches and a van) so that we could initially play around with them within a reasonable space (i.e. a table top), mainly to determine whether we could fit what we wanted into the available space but also it gave us an idea of where to position turnouts to avoid board joints.
After some shuffling about, lots of coffee etc we came up with this;

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This at least showed we had the space to achieve our aims, the next step is to lay out the board tops and place the full size templates on them to double check all is OK. I’ll update on this presently but please note this layout, being a club layout will only get worked on at club meetings, i.e. 1 night a week for 3 hours (less chatting and coffee drinking time) so progress will be slow – it took us 18 months to build and lay the track on Battersby!


Edited by mike knowles, 31 October 2016 - 18:37 .

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#2 m mcdermott

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 14:53

some members drank more than others but the track looked real .
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#3 the penguin of doom

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:12

Hmmmn.

Is there any space for an old Lima 33 or two on this new layout? Best get me craft knife out!

Looking like the track plan sits nicely in the available space Mike. I'll cast me eye over it next Wednesday to make sure though.....

Cheers.

Sean.

#4 bcnPete

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:39

Looks like a good one to follow.

I like the way the 5m measuring tape has been parked in the siding too... :D
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#5 David Siddall

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 19:16

Thoroughly looking forward to following your adventure, thanks for the kind words, and yes... 7mm turnouts are monsters compared to their 4mm little bretheren (I found that out the hard way). Delightfully easy to start out on a compact layout only to discover you need to annexe half the adjoining county to accommodate a head-shunt!

BTW... fascinated by the reference material you collected for your planning session. I'll have the 'healthy fish pie' please ;-)

#6 mike knowles

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:19

Looks like a good one to follow.

I like the way the 5m measuring tape has been parked in the siding too... Posted Image


Should have mentioned this marks where the track disappears off into the fiddle yard.

#7 mike knowles

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:21

BTW... fascinated by the reference material you collected for your planning session. I'll have the 'healthy fish pie' please ;-)


Well it is a coastal terminus so fish based recipes should fit in well!

#8 Donw

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 23:37

When planning my first 0 gauge layout I cut out some simple rectangles to show the size of key items I wanted to run such as locos etc to stand in for stock I had yet to buld or buy. Helps with working out headshunts etc.
Don
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#9 mike knowles

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 15:50

Having got the wood for the baseboards (all pre cut by the supplier Bell & Higgins Timber Ltd of Hull – thoroughly recommended) we laid out the baseboard tops so that we could then lay out the full size templates as a further check that everything fitted as we wanted.
This produced this;

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There is another 1.2m long board to go on the end nearest the camera in the first picture but at the moment we do not have room to erect it. As this only carries plain track in the station area it was not considered important for this initial planning stage
Having satisfied ourselves that all was OK the board tops were marked with the positions of the turnout operating units (so we don’t place cross members in the way) and also the line for the quay edge marked on.
By the way, following some sagging of the board tops on Battersby North End where we used 6mm plywood we have decided to use 12mm chipboard for the tops this time and due to the cost of plywood have gone for MDF for the sides. I have used this combination on a P4 layout I’m building for myself. The boards were built about 2-3 years ago and have been stored in various heated and unheated locations and have not sagged or warped, though all surfaces were sealed with a couple of coats of varnish to prevent moisture movement.
So, now for some joinery! (Fortunately something I like).
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#10 David Siddall

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 19:25

Nice progress peeps... am slightly jealous. Have achieved precisely no modelling whatsoever this week ...work overload :-/

D

#11 rat123

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 17:01

Hi Mike looks good cant wait to see it in action

stephen


#12 mike knowles

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 21:26

Quick update on progress.

So far two of the baseboards have been put together see photos below. Nothing special in their construction, 9mm MDF for the sides and cross braces and 12mm chipboard for the tops all glued and screwed together. These two baseboards measure 1600mm x 900mm and can easily be lifted by two people.
The length of OO flexitrack shown attached to the underside of the board in the last photo will act as the DCC wiring bus-bar.
Only two more boards to do now!

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As I have mentioned this is the first time any of us involved in the project have dabbled in O Gauge so of course we need to acquire some rolling stock to run on it. One possible downside of O Gauge is the cost of rolling stock, particularly locomotives. My son has recently built the JLTRT Class 50 which is an excellent kit and has produced a fine looking model, but although it is as yet an unpowered display model only it has cost him nearly £600 so far for the kit, paint, transfer, couplings etc. I’m not knocking the charges levied by such as JLTRT as these are relatively specialised low volume kits but at the moment I can’t really justify that sort of expenditure, plus I am from Yorkshire after all! (By the way the club covers the cost of building the layout – funded from subscriptions, but all rolling stock is bought, paid for and owned by individual members).
As a result I (we) started to look at alternatives and one option was to acquire some second hand Lima Class 33’s and convert them to Class 26’s & 27’s.
My friend and fellow club member The Penguin of Doom is going to convert one using the PRMRP conversion kit and will no doubt document progress on it in due course – once he’s finished his umpteenth version of DP2 no doubt!
However following conversation with a gentleman at Warley (sorry can’t remember your name or even which layout you were on-put it down to old age!) I’m going to try my conversion using Heljan spares.
We subsequently purchased said Lima Cromptons off e-bay, generally for about £40-50.
I then placed an order via Howes website for a complete set of Class 26 spares and despite people previously commenting on availablity (or lack of it) everything duly arrived the next day, so well done Howes & Heljan! The photos below show the loco as bought plus the Heljan parts. The total cost of the Heljan parts was £36. The fan and grile is an Extreme Etchings part by the way.

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One interesting point. Quickly laying the Heljan glazing over the Lima bodyshell showed that with the obvious exception of the centre windscreen it fitted almost exactly, so despite it’s age the Lima bodyshell doesn’t seem to be far adrift in these areas (assuming Heljan have got it right)!
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#13 the penguin of doom

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 22:00

You'll recall from my inane chat last night Mike that it is the fifth and a half version of DP2 for your information!.....

That said, I think I'll order one of the PRMRP kits this week as it will make and interesting aside to compare the 26/27 rebuilds whilst layout construction progresses.

I'll definately be using the Heljan glazing though.

Cheers for now,

Sean.

#14 David Siddall

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 14:59

Quick update on progress.

So far two of the baseboards have been put together see photos below. Nothing special in their construction, 9mm MDF for the sides and cross braces and 12mm chipboard for the tops all glued and screwed together. These two baseboards measure 1600mm x 900mm and can easily be lifted by two people.
The length of OO flexitrack shown attached to the underside of the board in the last photo will act as the DCC wiring bus-bar.
Only two more boards to do now!


Nice progress fellas. Last week I was suffering from 'shed envy', this week 'basebard envy'! I really must get busy with the woodwork.

Nice to see fellow proponents of MDF. I know the cutting dust isn't good for you if you breath it but I find it easy to work, stable and surprisingly light. What I like even more is that I don't end up with fingers full of splinters like I do when working with DIY-quality ply!

David

BTW: Great use for redundant 'OO' track ;-)

Edited by David Siddall, 24 February 2012 - 15:00 .


#15 boeing757

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:37

Just stumbled onto this thread and although I'm a steam modeller normally, I thought the Lima 33 offered an economic way to a reasonable model. Have obtained a 33 from .bay and will now grab the Heljan spares from Howes. Please update your progress, I shall be following this avidly.
Cheers B
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#16 hayfield

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:43

Our club has been building an 0 gauge layout for the past year, and yes the turnouts are quite large,

One question now Templot is a free download why are you not using it ?. (No critism intended) But we are now building a small 0-16.5 layout. I took a plan down, which we chatted over. The next week I redrew a revised plan (about an hours work) and we had a full size working plan using a 19' radius curve as a datum line, this week track building commenced

In Templot's simplest form you can just print turnout templates of what ever size you require. For trailing & facing crossings and lader junctions its a 1 click function giving automatic track centers, sleeper spacings etc. Using a F key and dragging a mouse you can curve a piece of plain track or a turnout to what ever radius you want. Then its not much harder to add pieces of track together

Just a thought as it may make life a bit easier fo you.

Good luck will be interested is seeing the progress
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#17 mike knowles

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:38

Our club has been building an 0 gauge layout for the past year, and yes the turnouts are quite large,

One question now Templot is a free download why are you not using it ?.



Cheers John and a very good point.
When we first started thinking about this layout late last year it was my intention to have a go at using Templot. However at that stage it was currently unavailable so we resorted to using the C&L Templates for the initial track planning.
Now that Templot is up and running again I might have a go with it to produce the track plan which will be laid on the boards and onto which the trackwork will be built. However I've never used templot before and would not class myself as a computer whizz kid - too old!, so it depends on how long it takes to master the system.

#18 hayfield

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 13:15

Cheers John and a very good point.
When we first started thinking about this layout late last year it was my intention to have a go at using Templot. However at that stage it was currently unavailable so we resorted to using the C&L Templates for the initial track planning.
Now that Templot is up and running again I might have a go with it to produce the track plan which will be laid on the boards and onto which the trackwork will be built. However I've never used templot before and would not class myself as a computer whizz kid - too old!, so it depends on how long it takes to master the system.


Never too old to learn (I am just hanging on to the right side of 60 but am put to shame by some a lot older), the basics are quite easy and there are good tutorials on Templot Club site, it may also solve a few problems as you can alter the size of track/turnouts to fit.

I am trying to help another user in the midlands with his design and some sunday mornings I spend a quick hour to re-design a basic plan. Must say slips and 3 ways are beyond me, but its just I have not invested enough time understanding the process involved. Good luck its quite fun

#19 David Siddall

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 17:55

As an alternative to Templot AnyRail is worth a look. I've used for my layout planning. By no means as sophisticated but intuitive to use and offers a good library of turnouts. I'm closer to the big 'six oh' than 'five oh', use graphic and web design software all day every day (...and have been doing so since computers first arrived in my industry) so I consider myself reasonably IT savvy; however Templot and I didn't get on. I'm not saying that's a problem with the software, just with my head... it's not wired to interface with CAD-based programs - though I acknowlege Templot undoubtedly offers the most advanced options to track designers.

David

Edited by David Siddall, 16 March 2012 - 17:56 .


#20 martin_wynne

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 20:00

As an alternative to Templot AnyRail is worth a look.


Hi David,

Templot and AnyRail are not alternatives.

AnyRail is for use with ready-made track such as Peco. It's not much use for handbuilt track.

Templot is a workshop tool for handbuilt track. It's not much use for ready-made track such as Peco.

They are two completely different animals. If you start off regarding Templot as an alternative to AnyRail, it's inevitable that you won't get very far with it. You must first decide what sort of track you will be using and only then choose the appropriate design software. Posted Image

All this is explained on the Templot web site, but it's a battle of wits to get folks to read it. Posted Image

regards,

Martin.
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#21 greenglade

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 21:02

Evening all

I just wanted to say that Templot may seem complicated at first glance but you'll be surprised how quickly you'll get a template to your specification printed and ready for use. I'm not just new to 0 gauge when it comes to building your own track, I had never done anything like this before , building my first turnout using a C&L turnout in a bag kit which I used to build a 31.5mm gauge B6 straight turnout.
Templot is in a word "brilliant" and I've only just touched the surface and know that not only am I going to be able to build my trackwork in a prototypical way but that it can be as complicated as I wish it to be. I do believe that because of Templot I'll probably get more fun building the track than any other aspect of this hobby.
Give it a go, you won't regret it.

Pete
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#22 Debs.

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 21:15

I do believe that because of Templot I'll probably get more fun building the track than any other aspect of this hobby.
Give it a go, you won't regret it.


Wholeheartedly seconded! :good:

#23 David Siddall

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:12

Templot and AnyRail are not alternatives... AnyRail is for use with ready-made track such as Peco. It's not much use for handbuilt track. Templot is a workshop tool for handbuilt track. It's not much use for ready-made track such as Peco.


Martyn, I completely acknowledge and respect the effort and commitment you've invested into developing and supporting Templot (and into the subject of trackwork modelling in general). I also admire the superb scale trackwork achieved as a result of its use and hope my post made that clear?

However, I would just respectfully question the perception that if you plan using AnyRail (or any other similar software) then the only way forward is to build your layout using ready-to-lay proprietary trackwork?

Some readers of this thread will know that I've recently embarked on building my own track and turnouts in 7-mil and that I am really rather enjoying the experience. In the process of getting to the stage where I made my choice of trackwork construction methods I explored and experimented with Templot 'before' opting for AnyRail. Personally, I've found AnyRail an acceptable aid to planning the bucolic little terminus I have in mind for which simple, straight, turnouts (constructed using C&L's components and Timbertracks bases) will be sufficient, I hope, to create a credible and prototypically accurate formation.

David

PS: I chose and have used the word 'planning' very deliberately here. The design of individual turnouts to suit individual locations and formations is an entirely different subject - one for which Templot deserves all the acclaim it receives :-)

Edited by David Siddall, 17 March 2012 - 10:11 .


#24 martin_wynne

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:35

Hi David,

Everyone makes their own choices and it's great that you have found a way that you enjoy and suits you. As I understand it you are using AnyRail to create the overall track plan, with C&L templates/bases for the actual construction. The results are looking great, but I think it's misleading to say that you are using AnyRail for handbuilt track when in fact you are using C&L.

Beginners have a lot of decisions to make and it's not fair to give them misleading information. By all means encourage them to follow your method, the results are excellent, but don't make statements which are simply incorrect. Your statement that AnyRail is an alternative to Templot is very misleading to beginners because neither of those programs can do what the other does. David Hoogvorst, the author of AnyRail, steers intending handbuilders towards Templot, just as I always steer those looking to design for fixed track pieces towards AnyRail.

Part of the problem arises from the perception that Templot is a layout planning program when its primary purpose is the design and printing of construction templates.There are indeed alternatives to Templot for those who don't like it -- Trax3 and S21 for example. But AnyRail isn't one of them -- if you use Anyrail for layout planning you need to get the track construction templates from elsewhere.

edit: I've just seen your edit. Thanks for the kind words. Posted Image I'm not getting at you -- it's just that over the years I have spent countless hours writing email explanations to those with a misunderstanding of what Templot is and does, and I just don't have the time to do that any more. Somehow I have to prevent the misleading ideas gaining currency in the first place.

regards,

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne, 17 March 2012 - 10:50 .

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#25 mike knowles

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 14:37

A bit more progress.
All four baseboards are now finished and sealed with a coat of varnish (loving kiss?). The pictures below show three of them assembled (we currently don't have room to assemble all four together!) and hopefully show how the quayside fits along the front of the layout.

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We've also made a start on the ply sleepers. These are cut from a sheet of 1/16 inch ply, sanded to finished size on a disc sander, dumped in a bath of wood dye for about half an hour and then left to dry on an old newspaper. Word of caution, if using a plastic tub for this make sure it can withstand the solvents in the wood dye, this one's OK but I speak from previous experience! Apologies for the blurred pictures.
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It's the club AGM next week so nothing will get done then but soon we can get on with track building (yippee!). I've decided to give 31.5mm gauge a try and have got some gauges from Debs (excellent service). Also in response to encouragement/cajoling from others on here I've downloaded Templot and am making steady progress towards a track template, I'll let you know further how I get on with it.
More soon.
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