RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted August 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2014 2 more locations where a turntable served as the end of a run-round loop, both German: Thale (although a tad large for a micro layout, perhaps!) And (much smaller) Klütz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 74 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Don't forget Ramsgate Harbour! https://www.flickr.com/photos/31365693@N00/98407819 Four tracks inside the shed, served by a turntable. Could be a nice Micro-Project... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Clarke 1980 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 theres one at Thomas land I went last week with the kids (sorry if its not very informative ) I thought it was worth a mention actually looks just like Ramsgate harbour phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
141 C 78 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Hallo, In reply to Pacific 231 G's comment about turntable arrangements on the CFBS, the original trackplan at Le Crotoy station actually had the turntable in front of the engine shed. It was moved to its present location (at the very end of the station, beyond the last turnout) in the preservation era, ca. 20 years ago, so as to make room for an inspection/lubrication pit outside the shed. At Noyelles, the original turntable was located further South, beyond the SNCF station building and just across the road from the pale yellow building (previously a cafe) visible on one of the shots. 141 C 78 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Although it would be useful on a small layout to only have the TT turning a few degrees to release the loco, tank locos were turned on longer branches to equalise flange wear and reduce prolonged bunker first running. Why not consider the CD case turntable? Especially if you're considering a 'flat top' version. I don't have a link handy but I'm sure it's been discussed on RMWeb in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 the derwent valley railway had little turntables for their railcar but cant currently find any photos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Although it would be useful on a small layout to only have the TT turning a few degrees to release the loco, tank locos were turned on longer branches to equalise flange wear and reduce prolonged bunker first running. Quite so, however anybody modelling Bembridge IOW should bare in mind that the turntable there was only used as a point and locos were never turned on it. However locos on the island were turned when they worked round the triangle formed by the lines from Newport to Ryde, Newport to Sandown and Sandown to Ryde. This must have happened from time to time inadvertently. This possibility ceased when the Newport to Sandown section closed in 1956. Incidentally the original turntable at Bembridge (usually referred to as "turntable points" by the way) was too small to take an O2 and was replaced by the Southern Railway with a larger one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 the derwent valley railway had little turntables for their railcar but cant currently find any photos Do you mean on the track or built into the railcar? That was a fairly common arrangement for early railcars in France and probably elsewhere before they learned how to control the engine from both ends. Even when available, a typical turntable for a small tank loco was often too short to take the much longer wheelbase of a railcar. I know of two of these that still exist An ex Gironde autorail, a De Dion Bouton M7, was acquired for the preserved S.,G. Labouheyre-Sabres line in Landes and this had a built in turning mechanism.The line had no turntables and the turning mechanism was used regularly until the 1980s as this photo shows. http://s4.e-monsite.com/2011/05/01/06/resize_550_550//De-Dion-Bouton-M-7-de-1932-ex--Economiques-CF.jpg After most of that line closed it was gifted to the Train Touristique Guîtres - Marcenais where it is currently awaiting restoration but it's not in a very good state. There is also an earlier metre gauge de Dion Bouton in running order at the MTVS museum north of Paris. This is a JM4 and is very much a bus on rails. It belongs to AMTUIR the Paris urban transport museum that has yet to reopen on a new site after many years of closure. It was at last year's Baie de Somme steam gala where I think it was turrned on its own frame to demonstrate it though its owners then used the system's ordinary turntables which are long enough for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hallo, In reply to Pacific 231 G's comment about turntable arrangements on the CFBS, the original trackplan at Le Crotoy station actually had the turntable in front of the engine shed. It was moved to its present location (at the very end of the station, beyond the last turnout) in the preservation era, ca. 20 years ago, so as to make room for an inspection/lubrication pit outside the shed. At Noyelles, the original turntable was located further South, beyond the SNCF station building and just across the road from the pale yellow building (previously a cafe) visible on one of the shots. 141 C 78 Hello 141C Yes, that was the situation at Le Crotoy when I first visited the line in 1980 and a very rusty Corpet-Louvet 0-4-0T was parked at the end of the line to advertise the railway. I don't think the turntable was being used at that time as the only other turntable on the system was at Cayeux which wasn't then being used by steam engines. The metre gauge tracks at Noyelles used to flank the whole length of the Nord station and the turntable at the end also acted as a three way point. When the last line of the Baie de Somme system, to St. Valery and Cayeux, was closed in 1973 the metre gauge trackage at Noyelles was almost immediately cut back from the forecourt of the SNCF station, possibly to make room for the replacement buses, and the revised arrangement didn't include a turntable. This was despite preservation being already well underway on the Le Crotoy line which had closed in 1970 and plans already in hand to preserve the Cayeux line as well. For many years, Noyelles was officially not a CFBS station as the railway had agreed to not compete with the buses I saw the line in 1993, about five years after my previous visit, and during that period the metre gauge had been extended fifty metres or so and the turntable reinstated. This is another view of the turntable in use from last year's steam festival. Until a couple of years ago there was no turntable at St. Valery as before the preservation era it had been a through station on the Noyelles-Cayeux line. The turntable at Cayeux WAS on the end of the main line and I took these rather faded photos of the then disused turntable during my first visit around Easter 1980 before the line had opened for the season. This turntable did not function as a point as it was well beyond the end of the loops. I don't think it was used by CFBS until the 2006 steam festival when steam returned to the Cayeux line. St. Valery-Cayeux is far more active now so the turntable does get used. One curious aside is that in 1912 the main line at Cayeux was extended about fifty metres beyond the turntable to enable galets (pebbles) ,which because of their particular mineral composition were and still are an important trade, to be transferred from a narrow gauge tramway. That would make an interesting oddity and, wagon turntables apart, I don't know of anywhere else where that happened. When I first visited in 1980 Cayeux this extension was long gone but the terminus still had two extra metre gauge sidings that ran beyond the station yard across a road to a factory. As usual I wish I'd taken more photos at the time but that was before digital cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 David: on the ground and only about the size of that above. i was looking at it on the net just the other day but i cant the pic now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesperus Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Alston was another example of a turntable release http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/a/alston/ I think you could probably model the section beyond the overall roof in a boxfile in N gauge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 found it: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/51/Derwent.htm a third way down the page Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 found it: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/51/Derwent.htm a third way down the page Yes, that now makes sense. It does seem to be a small version of a conventional loco turntable. I'm not sure why the TTs at Cayeux, Le Crotoy and Noyelles (the original was rather larger than the present one) are of the cruciform type with two tracks at 90 degree. Wagon turntables of this type were very common in France to serve perpendicular goods sidings so I'd guess they were simply standard items in the manufacturers' catalogues. There was another example at the terminus of the S.G. line from Chars at Magny en Vexin Note the apparently fixed stop signals protecting the turntable. This station closed to goods in 1987, though the track wasn't dismantled until 1995, and a few years ago was going to be the new base for the MTVS museum railway. They have long been hamstrung by not being able to rebuild more than a short stretch of metre gauge track from their current home at Butry and had started work on a new home when the election of a new council scuppered the plan. MTVS are now rebuilding track at Crèvecoeur-le-Grand but Magny en Vexin was a shame as it was an excellent example of a branch/light railway terminus and the building is still standing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Quite a few of these turntables were used not to turn locomotives around at the end of a journey but as a substitute for a point and release road. This makes it mich easier to model as then you only have two positions and less complicated wiring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Quite a few of these turntables were used not to turn locomotives around at the end of a journey but as a substitute for a point and release road. This makes it mich easier to model as then you only have two positions and less complicated wiring. That's true of Bembridge and some others but many railways were keen on running even tank engines chimney first (some tram locos were also designed to always run bunker first for visibility) The advantage of a TT just as a runround was to save length in unusually cramped locations but I don't know- unless they were avaialable off the shelf- why in those cases the builders didn't simply use a sector plate though balancing the loco to make it easier to turn might have been a factor. A TT run round is generally more complicated than a point as unless the TT is fairly large you still need a crossing (frog) Of course just because the original railway was keen on turning its engines doesn't mean that has to happen in a model so as you say you can simplify the wiring. There are though other ways to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold John B Posted September 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2014 Withernsea (terminus of a long branch from Hull) had a turntable instead of a run-around at the platform end. Big enough to handle D20s, judging on period photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Are there any designs, drawings or plans for these little 25'0" turntables? I've now got a very small layout space and would like to utilise one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Interesting topic. I wonder if I should look at my design for a 3D printed working wagon turntable, to see if it could be used as one of these turntable/points. 25ft comes out at 10cm in OO, My turntable does not turn more than 90deg and has control arm(manual) underneath so can be operated from side of layout. It is also easy to wire up as there is no reversal of power to worry about. Looking at prototype photos like Bembridge it looks like the track still has a frog(easy to make from half a diamond crossing), but models often ignore this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Interesting topic. I wonder if I should look at my design for a 3D printed working wagon turntable, to see if it could be used as one of these turntable/points. 25ft comes out at 10cm in OO, My turntable does not turn more than 90deg and has control arm(manual) underneath so can be operated from side of layout. It is also easy to wire up as there is no reversal of power to worry about. Looking at prototype photos like Bembridge it looks like the track still has a frog(easy to make from half a diamond crossing), but models often ignore this. That depends on the size of the turntable. The new electric one at St. Valery Port on the Baie de Somme (see post #10) doesn't have a frog but it is metre gauge. It's also larger than the TTs at the ends of the three original terminus stations. This would seem a bit pointless if it were only being used to release and turn locos unless they have longer term plans to install larger TTs elsewhere. However there's no TT in the depot at St. Valery Canal so I suspect it may also be used to turn longer vehicles to balance wear or for other operational reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rue_d_etropal Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 For a micro layout saving a few inches is the difference between a working layout and a hypothetical one. I remember the layout Ian Futers did many years ago in Railway Modeller. I think he stated it was the shortest you could do a traditional(?) branch line terminus in, just over 4ft. I think something similar using a turntable point could reduce that further. It might also be able to add another siding for loco storage. Even if turntable does not fully revolve, it would add more into minimal layout length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CloggyDog Posted May 8, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just remembered something I spotted/photted at Zittau last month, a Teildrehscheibe (sector plate) over on the south-west end bay roads (likely disused, give it's overgrown state). I'd estimate it was long enough for a V100 Ost (or similar) and served 3 tracks, pivotted at the 'stops' end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Withernsea (terminus of a long branch from Hull) had a turntable instead of a run-around at the platform end. Big enough to handle D20s, judging on period photos. Like wise the neighbouring Hornsea branch terminated at a turntable. The principle difference was that this turntable was at the other side of a set of crossing gates. http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hornsea_town/index.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 At the moment I am trying to figure out exactly how I would make one. I'm thinking of asking a friend to laser-cut some thick card MDF into a 175mm circle (25 feet in 7mm scale) and then I'll work out the rest from there. My theory at the moment is to have a 175mm disc, lay the rails on, build up some suitable decking in either stripwood or chequerplate and have a ring of stones to surround the turntable. To make it easier I might just make it turn like a short sector plate. Since I only need it to line up with two tracks, the centre pivot doesn't need to be micron-accurate I could motorise it, but a small lever and two stops would be all it needed. Anyone have some close-up or shots from above to show how they were designed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The best picture I have is this one, but I'm wondering if there are any more detailed shots: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Just came across this rather nice model in O gauge that uses a sector plate for the run around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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