RMweb Premium 47137 Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2015 I decided to have a go at home-made points using Peco code 75 rail on copperclad strips. Picking up my only precision tool, a micrometer, I found the width of the head of this rail is 0.031 inches. So for 16.2 mm gauge, which is 0.638 inches,the outside distance across properly-gauged rails is exactly 0.7 inches. For some reason this spurred me on to find a small piece of mild steel plate and cut two notches into it with a slitting disc in a Minicraft drill. The usual cutting off discs are just the right width for this rail too. The first attempt was wrong, but almost perfect for DOGA fine standard! The second attempt was rubbish. The third attempt was spot on and let me build my first point. I have the gauge tapering from ordinary 00 down to 00-SF at the crossing, and back out to 00 before it gets to the tie bar. I didn't try cutting notches in the gauge for the check rails. I have a steel rule exactly 1mm thick and I used this to set them up. So if you have bit of steel plate 1mm thick, you could make a gauge to do both. Honestly, making a gauge like this isn't "difficult", you just need a good supply of cutting discs and scrap plate and eventually you will hit the 0.7 inches. I cheated with the point parts for the vee and the wing rails, they are stripped out of a Peco small radius left hand point. But I'm really chuffed with the result. It's a drop-in replacement for a Peco point and it runs really nicely. Other details here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95044-old-lane-time-to-actually-buildfinish-it/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1810008 - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 I didn't try cutting notches in the gauge for the check rails. I have a steel rule exactly 1mm thick and I used this to set them up. One of the reasons the 00 gauge standards are so confused is that there is so much misinformation about. The check rail gap for 00-SF is not 1.0mm. It is the crossing flangeway gap (frog gap) which is 1.0mm. The check rail gap isn't important and is whatever you end up with after setting the check gauge to 15.2mm. It might be 1.0mm or it might not. The actual track gauge isn't so important, it shouldn't be less than 16.2mm but it might be more. If you set the check rails by gapping them from the running rail, the check gauge might or might not end up at 15.2mm. Since the check gauge is by far the most important dimension in pointwork, it is important to set the check rails directly with a check gauge, not by gapping them from some other rail. 15.2mm check gauges are available from C&L, or you could make your own if you have the means to measure it accurately. So that this point is properly understood, it is probably better to fix the check rails before fixing the running rails, as some builders do. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Looks very good, some scrap brass sheet is also useful, and you can make a check rail gauge exactly the same way. Nothing wrong with home made gauges at all I use quite often (for 00, EM & P4 gauges) the Peco track gauge, one with the check rail & wing rail gauges cut off and two taped at the top to form an upside down V both of which are sometimes much better than the standard roller or 3 point gauges Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted March 12, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2015 The check rail gap for 00-SF is not 1.0mm. It is the crossing flangeway gap (frog gap) which is 1.0mm. The check rail gap isn't important and is whatever you end up with after setting the check gauge to 15.2mm. ... Thanks for the positive feedback but sorry I used the term "check rails" much too loosely. I am describing how I made a jig, and my source of reference was the last table in the AMRA standard, "Fine tolerance wheel and track standard", version 3.0 Feb 2010. This gives the dimensions for a track gauge, including a flangeway of 1.01 to 1.04 mm. The standard shows a track gauge, not a check gauge. I have now made up a second point. For both of them, I assembled the vee first, then the added wing rails, then the running rails, and finally the check rails. I know, I am relying on accurately placing the wing rails to end up with the right check gauge, but both points do work nicely. I asked C&L about gauges at a show last Saturday and the chap said, when they get some it he will hold some back from the web site to sell at shows, people keep asking for them. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted March 12, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2015 I suppose you could say I'm setting the check gauge on a wing and a prayer Taxi! - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 12, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2015 I am describing how I made a jig, and my source of reference was the last table in the AMRA standard, "Fine tolerance wheel and track standard", version 3.0 Feb 2010. This gives the dimensions for a track gauge, including a flangeway of 1.01 to 1.04 mm. The standard shows a track gauge, not a check gauge. Hi Richard, Terry Flynn's "AMRA Fine" standard is for H0-SF. It is similar to 00-SF but not identical. Separate check gauges are in my view essential, with no gauge tool having more than 2 slots. Such gauge tool sets are available for 00-SF, and for EM and P4 from the respective societies. But multi-slot gauges continue to be popular with some track builders. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Hi Richard, But multi-slot gauges continue to be popular with some track builders. regards, Martin. Not me they are a real pain in the rear, I think we put up with them rather than like them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I asked C&L about gauges at a show last Saturday and the chap said, when they get some it he will hold some back from the web site to sell at shows, people keep asking for them. - Richard. They are now in stock as I posted here this morning, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97012-00-sf-gauges-in-stock-at-cl/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted March 13, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2015 Hi Richard, Terry Flynn's "AMRA Fine" standard is for H0-SF. It is similar to 00-SF but not identical. Separate check gauges are in my view essential, with no gauge tool having more than 2 slots. Such gauge tool sets are available for 00-SF, and for EM and P4 from the respective societies. But multi-slot gauges continue to be popular with some track builders. regards, Martin. They are now in stock as I posted here this morning, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97012-00-sf-gauges-in-stock-at-cl/ I am hoping to build at least three more points, but with their toe ends flared out to 16.5 mm and so very little if any plain track. With this in mind, I've ordered up a pair of 15.2 mm check gauges from C&L. Given that to me at least it is setting up the wing rails which is the hardest part, I think my sequence of construction will stay as vee - both wing rails - one stock rail - other stock rail - blades. The check rails will go on as cosmetic rather than structural things, and after building this up using a check gauge at the crossing end and a plain vanilla 00-BF roller gauge at the toe end, my home-made 16.2 gauge will remain useful where I can't get the micrometer onto the 0.700 inch dimension I mentioned at the start of all this. Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and encouragement. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nswgr1855 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Hi Richard, Terry Flynn's "AMRA Fine" standard is for H0-SF. It is similar to 00-SF but not identical. Separate check gauges are in my view essential, with no gauge tool having more than 2 slots. Such gauge tool sets are available for 00-SF, and for EM and P4 from the respective societies. But multi-slot gauges continue to be popular with some track builders. regards, Martin. Hello Martin, Please note, the track gauge design in the AMRA standard is not a multi slot design. It is a simple clamp type design, with no slots, and the dimensions of the clamp gauge results in the correct check gauge without the need of a separate check gauge tool. The AMRA gauge is a different method, that positions the track as accurately as the separate gauge method you prefer. Cheers, Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted April 23, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2015 My home-made gauge (which I started this topic with) has fallen into disuse since I got hold of a pair of 15.2 mm check gauges as sold for 00-SF by C&L. To my mind, these are the most useful track gauges you can have (at least in the UK) and if you arm yourself with these and a shim to suit the crossing flangeway of your desired standard (this will be 1 mm for 00-SF, or 1.3 mm for 00-BF) your hand-built point work will get off to a good start. The roller gauges with four grooves as sold in model shops are useful for holding plain rails (with no check rails) at 16.5 mm gauge, but not much else. - Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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