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Hornby’s Class 52xx tanks - design variation or QA


Silver Sidelines

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The New Year has heralded a crop of new models. It is also the time of year when manufacturers and retailers clear out old stock. I have given in to temptation and I have purchased a second Hornby Class 52xx tank – ‘5239’ (R3224). My new model has a curved footplate to complement my existing model with its straight footplate.

 

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Hornby Class 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ with curved footplate over cylinders

 

It would have been back in August 2013 when I took delivery of ‘5243’, one of Hornby’s first batches of Class 52xx ex GWR tank engines, R3126. It is a good looking engine with some very fine detail but I noted that the buffers were not sprung and the smoke box dart was moulded integrally with the smokebox door.

 

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Hornby Class 52xx R3126 ‘5243’ with straight footplate

 

To their credit, Hornby have now provided the latest 52xx models with a separate detailed smoke box dart. However we still await the sprung buffers.

The Hornby range includes a number of Class 42xx, Class 52xx and Class 72xx locomotives. Sometimes the differences are obvious. For example the Class 72xx has an extended bunker supported by an extra pair of trailing wheels. My original Class 52xx ‘5243’ (R3126) looks identical to Hornby’s latest Class 42xx ‘4257’ (R3223) – that is except for the detailed separate smokebox dart on the newer model. Perhaps the difference between the Class 42xx and the 52xx is simply the number series, 4200 – 4299 for the Class 42xx and 5200 – 5264 for the Class 52xx. But then why do some engines have a curved footplate raised above the cylinders?

 

I would research the matter.

 

First a look at my 1960 ‘bible’ by authors Casserley and Asher 1. They refer to Class 42xx/Class 52xx as a single class but there is no specific mention of straight or curved footplates:

 

Number series: 4200/1/3/6-8, 4211-5/7/8, 4221-33/5-8, 4241-3/6-8, 4250-4299, 5200-5264

Churchward 2-8-0T's, 4'7
½
" wheels, for heavy short-haul mineral traffic, built 1910-40. In all, 205 engines were constructed to this design: Nos. 4200-4299 and 5200-5294 between 1910 and 1930, and a final 10 in 1940. In 1934, Nos. 5275-5294 were reconstructed as 2-8-2T's and renumbered 7200-7219, while in 1935-6 Nos. 5255-5274 were similarly treated and became Nos. 7220-7239. These were followed in 1937 by 14 more reconstructions from the earlier locomotives, which were duly renumbered 7240-7253, their original numbers having been 4239, 4220, 4202, 4204, 4216, 4205, 4234, 4244, 4249, 4209, 4219, 4240, 4210 and 4425 respectively. Rather strangely, ten further engines were built in 1940 as 2-8-0T's, numbered 5255-5264, but they are, of course, entirely different engines from those which at first bore these numbers, and which are now 2-8-2T's, Nos.7220-7229. Several of the 4200 series were scrapped during 1959.

 

I also visited the Great Western Archive (GWA) web site.

 

Again both the 42xx and the 52xx number series are grouped together as a single class referred to as the 4200 tank class. I have condensed the following points from the GWA.

 

Running numbers: 4200-4299, 5200-5264

The prototype 2 - 8 - 0T ‘4201’ appeared in 1910 with a straight backed bunker and no top feed.

The first production batch had a top feed and the rear edge of the bunker was extended to increase the coal capacity. Production continued up to number 4299 and then from 5200-5204, finishing with the completion of ‘4200’ in 1923.

For the second phase of construction the cylinder diameter of numbers 5205- 5294 was increased from 18½ inches to 19 inches. The resulting increase in tractive effort meant that engines from number 5205 were referred to as the '5205' class. The GWA states that these engines could be identified by their outside steam pipes.

Towards the end of construction whilst building numbers 5275-5294 there was a reduction in coal exports which caused many of the class to lie idle. The relatively small size of the coal bunker restricted use of the engines and they were placed into storage at Swindon. Collett decided to increase the coal capacity and altered the batch 5275-5294 to a 2 - 8 - 2T configuration. The modified engines were renumbered and designated '7200' class.

Further '7200' class engines were requested and the 20 next newest engines, numbers 5255-5274 were also rebuilt as 2 - 8 - 2T's. Even more 2-8-2Ts were requested and random engines appear to have been taken from the earlier Churchward '4200' series.

Rebuilding the last of these '4200' class ceased at the end of 1939 and was followed at the beginning of 1940 by construction of a further batch of the '5205' class, numbers 5255-5264.

The GWA states that when new cylinders were required on the '4200' engines, outside steam pipes were also fitted. Some engines at this time were given a curved front frame which included raising the height of the cylinder and therefore raising the running plate above the cylinder. However not all engines were modified in this way. Similarly, some members of the '5205' class fitted with outside steam pipes as standard had a flat running plate whereas most of the newer engines of this series had raised cylinders and therefore a raised running plate.

 

The notes above paint a rather confused picture. However I would say that it is well known that Castle Class and Hall Class engines coupled with Churchward tenders could enter Swindon Works for a major overhaul and emerge later coupled to a flat sided Hawksworth tenders (and vice versa). From personal experience in the north east of England it was also common for J26 Class engines with circular spectacle plates to the cabs to emerge from Darlington Works with a cab with straight sided spectacle plates from a J27. Might it be that when visiting Swindon Works for a major overhaul the frames and cylinders from engines in the series 5205-5264 were swapped with bits from engines in the series 4200-4299 and 5200-5204?

 

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Hornby Class 52xx Packaging – R3126 (top), R3224 (bottom)

 

In these circumstances photographs become exceedingly valuable providing a definitive means of identifying the shape of running plate for a particular locomotive at a given point in time. The notes on the rear of Hornby’s packaging include a copy of a photograph of the enclosed model. ‘5239’ (R3224), one of the later production batch is pictured with a curved footplate and running with a late crest. In contrast sister engine ‘5243’ (R3126), with a higher running number, is pictured again with late crest but this time with a straight footplate. Whilst not shown here the packaging for ‘4257’ (R3223) an early engine, pictures the engine with late crest and I am guessing its original straight footplate.

 

What about my new Hornby model?

 

24443770401_6e4fed4942_b.jpg

Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – footplate as received

 

My model arrived with noticeable bend in the straight section of the footplate. Trawling through other people’s pictures including an image of the model on Hornby’s web site I can imagine that there is a production fault with the model that is preventing the footplate lying properly.

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ - disassembly

 

The footplate can be unclipped from the side tanks. The only glue used to hold my model together was on a tab beneath the smoke box which I cut round and prised apart.

 

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – unfolding the ‘outriggers’

 

The front ‘stays’ or ‘outriggers’ are a push fit into holes at the front of the smoke box. These can be swung out of the way to allow the footplate to separate completely from the smokebox/boiler/side tank moulding.

 

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – shave the motion bracket

 

Having dismantled the body shell I set about trying to identify features that might be interfering with the fitting of the footplate. I should say that I could not identify a single cause and set about carefully shaving plastic from areas that I thought might be acting as ‘high spots’. Because of Hornby’s ‘clip together’ method of construction I was able to reassemble the footplate and check the effect of each operation before proceeding too far.

 

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – gently file around the base of the smokebox saddle

 

I was particularly suspicious about the base of the smokebox saddle. Rather than remove plastic from the saddle I would have preferred to cut through the matching opening in the footplate. However because of Hornby’s method of assembly I thought that removing the opening would leave the front of the footplate with too little support – I didn’t want to risk it.

 

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – shortened steam pipes

 

It did become obvious on my model that the steam pipes were too long. On my model these pipes were a push fit into the sides of the smoke box and it proved relatively easy to prise the glued end of the pipes out of their sockets in the footplate. The pipes were shortened by approximately 1mm. I took particular care to preserve the square spigot. Subsequently the pipes were reassembled without the need for any glue.

 

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Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – packing washer placed beneath smokebox

 

Finally I threaded a couple of thin washers onto the fixing screw beneath the smokebox. The total thickness of packing would be around 1mm similar to the original distortion in the footplate and also to the amount removed from the steam pipes.

 

24499928746_81ca5a65cf_b.jpg

The proof of the pudding, Hornby 42xx R3233 ‘4257’(Left), Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’(Right)

 

Nearly very good? As the view above shows I have removed the worst of the distortion and the buffers still sit at the correct level.

 

24158348449_a4211633f2_b.jpg

Hornby 52xx R3224 ‘5239’ – a nice looking model

 

As I said at the start of this post –I still think a nice looking model. It would be interesting to know whether the distortion to the footplate that I experienced was a Quality Assurance issue during assembly or whether as I suspect a design / production error perhaps associated with the use of common parts for both the straight footplate model (R3126/R3223) and the curved footplate variety (R3224)?

 

Reference

 

1. Casserley HC and Asher LL (1961) ‘Locomotives of British Railways’ (Spring Books)

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To their credit, Hornby have now provided the latest 52xx models with a separate detailed smoke box dart. However we still await the sprung buffers.

 

There were also some other changes, including putting on the rear guard irons. I remember when I picked up my 4257, having a look over it to see what the Brassmasters detailing kit improved upon and noticing this and then pondering if it was still worth getting the detailing kit. I don't need the bunker fender  for 1930's condition and not too fussed on the brake rigging, not something I'll see under normal running.

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25 minutes ago, wappinghigh said:

Right... so I quote direct from this.. only 7219–39 has straight footplates! So where are all the Hornby versions of all.. or any?..  of the others?! DId they not do them because of the issues the original poster illustrated on the modelling of the later modified 5205's???

 

Have you actually tried looking on a site like Hattons? Russ has already posted a pic of one for you.

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17 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Have you actually tried looking on a site like Hattons? Russ has already posted a pic of one for you.

Well sure... R3127 and R3226 are the only ones  pictured with a raised (curved) footplate but a search of Hattons and ebay ..to take a look at the actual model draws a blank. None available. And no info on the 2013 tooling info from Hattons concerning the footplate variations either 😀

Edited by wappinghigh
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1 hour ago, wappinghigh said:

@gwrrob sure this looks great! But it's not a locomotive with a raised footplate> ? 😀

 

Thanks, if you haven't already got it I highly recommend the book by Ian Sixsmith The 2-8-2 Tank Papers which covers 7200-53.

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32 minutes ago, wappinghigh said:

Well sure... R3127 and R3226 are the only ones  pictured with a raised (curved) footplate but a search of Hattons and ebay ..to take a look at the actual model draws a blank.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

hornby-7218.jpg.85ba5397256e45903088939bdd5b781a.jpg

 

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8 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Are you sure about that?

 

hornby-7218.jpg.85ba5397256e45903088939bdd5b781a.jpg

 

Well no.... but thanks for that!... but hey - look at that front end of the footplate.. are they *all* like that? Wonky..and bent? Is the problem here with the Hornby 72XX model just the same as the problem the original poster flagged with the 52XX? 

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So back to the original post.

 

Let's face it - if you have paid for an accurate scale model of a locomotive - particularly one in preservation - where the actual locomotive can be seen - is it good enough that a purchaser has to "shave off bits", cut and refit other parts to straighten (an otherwise bent) footplate?! 

 

No it is NOT!

 

Come on Hornby - where is the re-tool to set this right? 

 

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8 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

So back to the original post.

 

Let's face it - if you have paid for an accurate scale model of a locomotive - particularly one in preservation - where the actual locomotive can be seen - is it good enough that a purchaser has to "shave off bits", cut and refit other parts to straighten (an otherwise bent) footplate?! 

 

No it is NOT!

 

Come on Hornby - where is the re-tool to set this right? 

 

 Hornby or is it history has a habit of repeating itself.  I remember when I first wrote this post being amazed at how plastic the model was - very flimsy.  A marked contrast to the latest 78xxx offering.   Regards  Ray

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Hey @Silver Sidelines how is yr model of 5239 going? I think what you did was awesome - to correct these defects. It's great you could  revisit this thread.. (though not great the model was defective in the first place!)

 

As an avid tank engine model enthusiast I really appreciate what you showed here..

 

Thanks

😀

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On 23/10/2023 at 10:36, wappinghigh said:

How is yr model of 5239 going?

Hello again, I have been searching out my old models and I am still not impressed.  I am guessing that they were put safely away because they don't actually haul very much.

 

I have put together a video which starts with Rapido's 15xx.  You can see the chimney waving from side to side as it emerges from the tunnel but it is super smooth and hugely powerful.  In contrast the only way I could get Hornby's 2-8-0T / 2-8-2T tank engines to haul my train of ICI tank wagons up the hill was to double head them.  Other wise they just sat at the bottom of the incline with their wheels rotating.  Finally I have added a clip of a decent Heavy Goods Engine - a Bachmann 9F.  These are not without their issues but they can be made to be very good.  All the clips were made with the controller on essentially the same setting (Gaugemaster DS).

 

Enjoy - and yes I need to see how to add more weight.

 

 

Cheers Ray

Edited by Silver Sidelines
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