wagonman
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Posts posted by wagonman
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On 04/03/2023 at 12:53, Compound2632 said:
Not in Joe Greaves' index nor HMRS photos. Setting aside the monstrosity that is that Dapol wagon qua wagon, 10 ft wheelbase steel underframe an' all, the signwriting shows such a lack of prototype literacy that i'm inclined to think the whole thing is a poor guess based on this very photo:
I'm not entirely convinced by the white outline to the black lettering, which could just be down to contrast between the darker and lighter areas, though I admit the lettering does look a bit skinny. The sides look about 3 ft deep from floor level, or maybe a bit less, and the layout of the lettering suggests four 8 in or 9 in planks; the end, though, might be three 11 in or 12 in planks, going by the position of the owner's plate and a hint of horizontal shadow lines.
Cambrian kit C53 could be a good starting-point for a model in 4 mm scale. This wagon and the wagon next to it look to conform to the 1887 RCH specification. The thing that makes me suspect that there is another photo after all is that the Dapol model has Load 8 Tons on its side-rail; the wagon if anything might pass for and RCH 1923 specification 12-tonner. The tare given is more applicable to that, as is the commuted charge sign, which is way out of order for "before 1910".
But now it's the wagon on the right that has caught my notice - much shorter wheelbase, around 7 ft, and sides going straight up from the solebar, possibly sloping outwards - certainly the end does. Is this an iron-bodied hopper wagon? Is it a hang-over from the CMR? And what is the flap thing projecting below the solebar?
What is the load? It looks too diffuse to be coal - is it culm, which was local?
Paging @wagonman!
Sorry. Had my hearing aid turned off.
Sharp wagon no.43 was a 10-tonner registered by the GWR in August 1900 (their 846). I don't know the builder. The wagon on the far right is indeed an exCMR wagon. These had iron bodies on wooden frames and an end door for tipping. They had been built by the Swansea Wagon Co in 1875, and often turn up in pre-WW1 photos of mid Cornwall.
The photo is a detail from a commercial postcard of, I think, Bugle station in the Edwardian era. I'm pretty sure I have a copy somewhere but it's not been scanned. At the moment I'm up to my eyeballs in Devon coal merchants and have rather neglected the Cornwall end. Mañana.
As for the cargo, whatever they used to fire the kilns at he dries...
Richard
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19 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
There's an interestingly high proportion of Midland stock for this LNWR goods station (Curzon Street). Are we seeing the fruit of the 1908 traffic agreements?
[Embedded link to Warwickshire Railways lnwrcs1503, per link in previous post.]
But the wagon with the new sheet is curious. I've not been able to match it to a LNWR diagram - the D31 coke wagons come closest but the cupboard doors, which I think were unique to that diagram, were taller than those we see. Plus the characteristic quadrant cut-out of the headstock end is lacking.
Note the wagon turntables, a house speciality since 1837.
It looks vaguely G&SWRish – but I can't even be sure whose sheet it is. Does the next wagon along also have cupboard doors?
Richard
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On 24/05/2022 at 12:22, billbedford said:
3/ Late nineteenth-century photographic emulsions were orthochromatic meaning they over-exposed the red end of the spectrum and under-exposed the blue. ie reds, yellows and browns were darker than expected and blues, especially, paler. Hence photos of Caly locos tend to show up paler than locos of other companies. As an example of wagon colours here is a photo of Carr Wagon Works in Doncaster. The GN revenue wagon livery was red oxide, similar to the Caly's, and the engineers were painted oxford blue. The ballast wagon in the photo was probably ex-works, but the contrast between the lettering and the body colour is much the same as in the photo above
Belatedly found this thread. Orthochromatic emulsions were insensitive to the red end of the spectrum and so UNDER exposed anything that colour. That is why anything red was rendered as a dark tone while things like the blue sky were OVER exposed and thus rendered very pale. The earliest film emulsion was only really sensitive to blue – orthochromatic film extended the sensitivity into the green part of the spectrum but it was not until the advent of panchromatic film in the early C20 that red sensitivity was introduced.
I knew the three years I spent studying photography would come in handy one day!
Richard
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On 06/02/2023 at 19:22, magmouse said:
It's interesting to see this in relation to the Bradwell Wood wagon up thread, as you say. In this case, the left-hand wheel rim is a similar tonality to the front of the axle box, but the rim is in shadow, and the axle box is catching the sunlight that is skimming along the side of the wagon (check the shadow of the wagon where it falls on the next wagon to the left to get a sense of the light direction).
The contrast between light and shade is pretty high in the picture, so the tone of the wheel rim must be much lighter than that of the axle box or indeed the sunlit end of the wagon. For me, I'd be pretty sure that's a white rim we are looking at. The white lettering is lighter again, suggesting the rim is dirty white, and the lettering a pretty clean white.
By the same logic, I think we can say no white rims on the adjacent wagon...
Thanks for picking this thread up again - I've just finished another PO wagon (Slater's 'United') with no white rims!
Nick.
As the rest of the Bradwell Wood wagon is also in pristine condition could it have had a recent repaint – including the wheel rims for show? Otherwise I'm firmly in the "no white rims in service" camp.
Richard
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On 07/02/2023 at 09:34, Compound2632 said:
I think the lady nearest the camera is a Freisian. They're very familiar, as our wake-up call when at our usual holiday spot is the sound of the cows going to milking. It's a hill farm in the Western Dales, with a herd of 22 milking cows when we arrived last summer, up to 23 at the end of our fortnight. An addition to stock had been made at Hawes market, taking advantage of high demand and prices owing to the drought in the south. It was at one time the practice to have a Jersey or two in the herd, upping the cream content and hence price of the daily milking.
It helps to know the usual timing of the milk tanker lorry, as the roads are very narrow!
As a kid c1960 I lived for a while in darkest Wiltshire and would 'help out' at the local farm in the holidays. It was a mixed farm with a smallish dairy herd of about 12 head, mostly Guernseys but with at least one Jersey – for the cream content. The old Jersey was the matriarch of the herd and thus at the head of the queue come milking time.
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On 24/01/2023 at 16:51, Andy Keane said:
Indeed - I have wound tiny phosphor bronze coil springs to sit above horn blocks but golly it is fiddly!
Have you tried the Continuous Springy Beam approach? The CLAG website has all the info. http://www.clag.org.uk/beam-annex3.html The advantage is that it gives active rather than passive springing, and you can vary the 'load' on each axle – at the cost of unprototypical knobs and bit of spring wire.
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6 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:
Compensation, even in OO (or EM) also allows for greater reliability in electrical pick up.
Springing is even better!
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Renationalisation is really the only answer for the railways today. I just hope we don't have to wait until 2048.
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My loss of interest in the 'real' railway started when diesels appeared on the West of England line, while the Beeching massacre was the coup de grace. That it also coincided with a burgeoning interest in 'cigarettes and whisky and wild, wild women' is of course purely accidental...
It probably explains why I model pre-group exclusively.
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On 12/01/2023 at 21:33, corneliuslundie said:
Many thanks.
Re the photo of the "other side" Morton clutch, when modelling at 4 mm/ft it would be hard to know whether it is there or not, hence my comment. But I have seen it stated in print several times that the Morton clutch was only on one side. The problem is that once such a statement is made it is difficult to get it corrected.
I don't think I shall be modifying all my wagons to add that clutch - though as many are coal wagons with bottom doors the problems is not as big as it might have been.
Keep up the good work.
And like others I think there is a book in what you are writing.
Jonathan
The picture that Stephen posted was of the 'lost motion' clutch. There was also the other, rather more noticeable, 'reversing clutch' which normally used the two interlocked cams, but sometimes a lifting link.
Look further down the page at http://www.gwr.org.uk/nowagonbrakes.html.
Richard
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22 hours ago, Edwardian said:
Apropos your response to the Franco-Mexican War of 1861–1867, I feel I'm having that F R Leavis moment from Bridget Jones ...
Goya?
Francisco José de Goya y Lucientes?
The Francisco José de Goya y Lucientes who died in 1828?
Clang! I meant Manet of course, as Tom pointed out! A reminder not to rely on my increasingly fallible memory.
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On 11/01/2023 at 13:46, Edwardian said:
As I recall, it didn't go so well ...
At least we got a painting by Goya out of the debacle. Not much consolation to Mad Max of course...
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17 hours ago, splodgestudios said:
If stone workings were my only concern I’d definitely focus on the 20’s and 30’s however I model the fictional North Western Region created by the Rev W Awdry - specifically I model the Ffarquahr Branch which has a quarry tramway. I chose the 60s for running capabilities lots of variety between steam and diesel.
The tramway, according to Awdrys writings, was open past the 60’sThat said thanks all for the insight!
When Awry was a kid he lived near Box and would listen to the freight trains labouring up towards the tunnel. Apparently. I can vouch for the fact that he couldn't hear the trains when he was shipped off to boarding school...
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Most of the Bath stone mines were taken over by the government at the start of the war and converted. There was, and is still, a limited amount of dimension stone produced in the area though when they stopped sending it by rail I know not – probably '50s. That rather begs the question why have you chosen the '50s/'60s when the '20s/'30s would be a much better bet?
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Quite so. The Midland Wagon reference came from Ian...
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Sorry for being so off-piste, but I have done a bit of digging: the business started as The Plymouth Steamship and Coal Co in about 1904, having taken over an existing business Hill & Co. in c1915 it was registered and the name changed to The Plymouth Coal Co Ltd, this being the entity finally wound up in 1996.They had regular adverts in the local press mostly advertising their "best Newcastle Wallsend coal" regularly discharged from their own steamers. Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to find out who owned the company, nor the names of any of their steamers, though I think it's safe to say their wagons were mostly used for local distribution and were not very numerous.
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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:
The Lightmoor Index has a reference to Bill Hudson's Oakwood book. (Which I do not have,)
I do have a copy of Bill Hudson's book and here is the entry – apologies for the quality of the image! According to the London Gazette the Plymouth Coal Co Ltd (no.935872) was one of a slew of companies officially put into liquidation on 31 January 1996, all under Ernst & Young's Sheffield office. The implication is it was a mopping up operation for moribund companies. At some point I'll have to plough through TNA's BT31 index again; meanwhile there is the local press to keep me busy. I suspect the wagons will be untraceable though...
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I have been working on Exeter and Torquay coal merchants – haven't got round to Plymouth yet – but at a first glance the Plymouth Coal Co's wagons seem to be very elusive. Nothing in the GWR registers that I have seen other than a Merthyr colliery of the same name. They bought some s/h wagons from the Midland Wagon Co in the 1870s and ... er, that's it. Do you have any information other than the POwsides transfers?
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2 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:
I would probably add a Plymouth Coal company wagon or two to that west of Newton Abbot. Loaded at Lockyers Quay.
I might, if I'd ever actually seen one!
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A few random thoughts: the late surviving 2-2-2 at Oxford was mainly used on the Fairford branch I believe.
Any secondary main line in the Southwest probably needs a Duke. Apart from the Duke, Bulldog and 3521 classes, all 4-4-0s were Red, I believe.
I don't think Aberdares ventured west of Exeter until much later – a batch was employed on china clay traffic in the 1920s. Dean Goods were common in the Southwest in the 1890 and 1900s but had all but disappeared in the 1920s when there was just one left at Exeter.
Pre-WW1 much, but definitely not all, of the coal used in Devon and Cornwall arrived by sea. That said, no layout of that time and place would be complete without at least one Renwick, Wilton & Co wagon!
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17 hours ago, Northroader said:
one thing that tickles me is that the GWR didn’t think much of its newly acquired fleet, if you look at the cond. dates.
Most of the wagons the GWR inherited in 1923 had wooden underframes which were anathema at Swindon, hence their early demise. The exMSWJR stock built with steel frames by Gloucester in c1897 mostly lasted until the early '50s.
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On 13/11/2022 at 17:12, Compound2632 said:
Looks like there's only one way forward. And I thought this looked like a bargain, a quick win...
A good pretext to get the plastikard out...?
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On 03/11/2022 at 19:41, KeithMacdonald said:
Did they go via the Andover to Redbridge (LSWR)?
a.k.a. the "Sprat and Winkle Line"
As mentioned here on Wikipedia, without explaining where the name came from.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprat_and_Winkle_Line
Anyone know?
Yes.
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Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench
in Pre-Grouping - Modelling & Prototype
Posted · Edited by wagonman
I have found a couple of photos with exCMR mineral wagons in them. You can see that the sides and ends are vertical. Unusually they have dumb buffers at the door end and sprung at the other.
Here's a couple at the foot of the Newquay Harbour tunnel
A few more in a familiar view of Fowey station this time loaded with barrels of clay.
Richard