westernviscount

Good point. The crazy frog song spent 4 weeks at number 1 nearly 20 years ago and has half a billion views on youtube in one of its forms. I suspect I am just a snob.

I like this analogy wombat. Personally I would say the vast majority of modelling youtubers are of the jack vetriano, middle of the road kind of art though. But anyway, I would say it is the higher standard of modelling, achieved by skill instead of chequebook that is more likely to inspire. I thought the bog standard "how I turned a plunger into a ticket office" is more likely to switch someone off but it seems I am wrong. As for the cross-curricula links, yes, the military guys and plastic modellers I am sure have lots to offer. Scale-model medic being one. I went through a phase of watching lots of youtube, adam savage's tested for instance, but like all of them, the personality begins to creep more and more front and centre and the subject matter becomes more watered down.

You are most definitely right about this.

It doesnt put me off Kris. Given the time, money and space of these folks I doubt I would choose to produce something like that in terms of subject, scale etc. Then again, I wonder if I would do model railwaying at all, given the lifestyle money could buy ;-) Generally though, I think it a denial of human nature to think these videos purely inspire. Many will feel envy and sorrow as to their lack of wherewithal and feel guilt on top of this for feeling envy in tge first place. As you say, it is not a reason to not share but it does make my question of whether youtube is a positive to people and the hobby a valid one. As people have observed, most of us can discriminate between good (useful/entertainment) and bad (useless/puerile) content. I wonder if those growing up with this media have developed skills enough to handle it, particulalrly in terms of the emotional effect it has on them. Sam's trains would have been unbearable to me as a child as much as it is to me as an adult but could I have processed how to manage watching someone be so careless with something I value and probably could not have been able to afford? I am not sure and am grateful I was grown up before facebook, youtube etc.

I am glad your MRJ turned up (MRJ is saved for another quarter despite my purchasing from Smith's). It is indeed a good one, can't help but be so with Rice in the chair. I particularly enjoyed his editorial, opinions unstifled by sponsership and product pushing. Quoting out of sync can't help your understanding of my text to be fair. Your persistence that someone does not value a magazine because they cant afford to subscribe is an opinion I cannot change. Subscriptions are for the better off and are more valued by you, demonstrated by your comments. I dont care what you think about how much I value a magazine. I, like most people, do what they can with the means they have. If you only value the opinions and abilities of people of means then that is an issue we are unlikely to agree on. Not sure whether to laugh at how ridiculous this is or feel bad for you Phil. I favour garbled over delusional anyday of the week. Anyhow, having yet again responded way off topic I apologise again and will refrain from further comments unless addressing the thread title!

I think this is probably a healthy response. As I say though, I think the "living vicariously through a screen" phenomena of youtube, and the very low quality and standard might inform the folk who run these platforms and other broadcasters how easily pleased we all are and reduce quality further? Doom and gloom I know. I consume new media probably as much as anyone else here. Some of it is good. I enjoy podcasts, particulary signals to danger and railway mania. I just have a natural inclination to believe all this modern stuff is a distraction from the hobby and does little other than serve as a platform for those with means to demonstrate how to do something in front of a camera instead of how to do something well.

Interesting. What are we meant to take away from vids like that i suppose? I suspect the motivation of the maker is entirely pride based but does it inspire me to make models or to begin questioning every decision I ever made in life? ;-)

There are definite parallels Phil. Lots of cash and time spent and apparently doubly so if recording it all for youtube. I wonder if the question should then be "does youtube contribute positively to the individual's hobby?". I assume the youtube bit becomes a hobby in its own right. In some instances to the detriment of the modelling part.

This is probably a sensible approach wombat. I just have this sense that the puerile and trivial will trickle into other areas such a magazines and layouts presented at exhibitions. Youtube popularity may be used as a gauge by which to measure suitable content for mags and exhibitions. This is conjecture but it is a worry to me. I also do believe that some of the poorer quality vids do put people off. I admit I watched a kit build one recently and wondered what an outsider to the hobby might make of it. I worry also that there is an apparent propensity of some younger folk to live vicariously through screens amd see this as perfectly fine. Perhaps it is... Perhaps I just need to relax a bit.

Instinctively jonhster, personally and without evidence (which is good enough in the modern world right?) I feel that yes, most youtubers have a negative effect on the hobby. But I must stress this is my personal observation and I freely admit I am old fashioned and grumpy. But... They take up way too much time for a start. The intros and preambles aside, which purely distract from actual hobby time (he types on rmweb whilst not doing any modelling) The more sinister side of youtube and its perpetual death scroll of content really scares me. The viewing need never end! Some present in a particularly narcissitic manner, becoming more front and centre as their popularity rises and a bit more open about their predominately very comfortable living arrangements (I know that isnt mum and dads attic and I am just envious of your lovely carpet) To be honest, I find it mostly irritating. However, the influencer stuff and "donate to see thomas racing my dog" stuff is not just tedious but exploitative. Most of the reviews are not of any use either being vehicles for the small fry to recieve freebies or the big boys to ensure manufacturers keep supporting the mags through ads. Perhaps again, I am catastrophising?

I often think I look in the wrong places or perhaps allow autoplay to dictate. Like you, in terms of railway modelling I have seen little of quality or use. As for youtube being free, it may well be in terms of money, however the amount of time it occupies (I would go so far as to say more time than we realise or would like), the targetted ads and data collection may well be youtube selling US to advertisers...I say may well be...that is what it is. We are the thing up for sale. Our time, data and attention.

100 percent in agreement. I cannot type here what came out of my mouth when this popped up!! I dont think the youtuber in question is representative of the wider modelling youtube folk but I worry he might become so.

Ha ha, nicely done Fred.

I have been influenced by some of those folk, just not in the way they might have liked. Genuine influencers would never describe themselves as such. It is the case I am told elsewhere that a youtuber and influencer are different things. Influencers operate on youtube but have a product to sell or whatever. Not all youtubers do this. I am guilty of focusing on the utter rubbish and not giving the good stuff enough attention perhaps. I instinctively dont like the youtube format and its accompanying culture. 4 mins of unwrapping and laying out a kit, discussing flash levels and "reviewing" the instructions of a kit that has been around for 50 years may well be a good watch for some. There is a skip forward function though.

Youtube, video hosting site. Host of millions of hours of "content" related to whatever your imagination can think of. Hobbyists, activists, proffessionals, influencers, lifestyle gurus etc. Anyone can create and upload videos, anyone in terms of those who know how...the internet anyone if you like. Railway modelling is well catered for and hours more content is added minute by minute. It would be great to hear thoughts from those who use it, as consumer or producer or both, from those who have misgivings for whatever reason and those who are ambivalant.

I agree, and acknowledge my contribution to the off topicary!! I will not have my choice of how to purchase a magazine be belittled without reply of course.

Well Phil you have been very detailed in your rebuttle there. An interesting insight into the sharp end of the hobby. Well, you stated in your first reponse to my MRJ comment that if I wanted to support MRJ then I should subscribe. The implication is we can afford subs for a mag or are of no value to you. You belittled my purchase of MRJ from a comment that was in part self effacing which is fine. Your subsequent replies have been detailed and I understand you have a more vested interest in the modern state of the hobby than me. I dont make money from my hobby, or anyone elses hobby but that does not mean I cannot participate in the way I choose to. I recognise the content of BRM is a business. The practicals I am sure require the branded products they promote to get the desired results inspite of the business and one page of protype info must be followed by 2 or 3 of product review inspite of the business. I understand the opinions of folks who enjoy this are by no means worthless to you...they pay the bills. To me? Well, lets say they mean very little. Well here Phil you got me! My own fault of course and along with everything I have written above, a betrayal of my complete lack of understanding of how business works. A photo and 120 words for free for the "through the lens article" must go some way to compensating for us who neither subscribe or buy BRM ;-) yes I know I know it was a competition. I also voluntarily named 2 companies free of charge!!! I Need to put down the Marx and pick up the Mill!!

Fair point Phil. I admit as a model railway hobbyist, the ins and outs of a magazine's business operation is out of my sphere of knowledge I am afraid. I certainly dont feel bad about buying MRJ copy by copy and buy it to enjoy the content, nothing more. I dont see my trip to WH Smith as a mercy dash every *insert random amount of time between MRJ publications*. Subscriptions have always been for those who are financially secure enough to make a commitment and the assumption everyone is in this boat who enjoys the hobby is unfortunate but clearly a fact of life. If folk are confused as to why a 4 issue sub of £22 is a stretch for some then what can I say. An interest in model railways is not just for the flush, despite the total cost month after month of the jam packed reviews pages of the glossier publications would have us believe. Given MRJ consistently champions small concerns instead of big ticket item "reviews" and doesnt sell vast areas of the magazine to advertisers and pays for all contributed content is an appealing factor. Heck Phil, you may well have convinced me. Cygnet publications on speed dial. ;-)

Thanks Hal. The maskol was a aplied with a torn and teased scouring pad which gives the more broken patchy look. I must say weathering is an area I have learned to enjoy. It always seems so risky especially on locos. As you say, it is imprecise and it makes me nervous! My results are often mixed and a bit of luck goes a long way!

Another rusty one from the archive I just dug out.

Cheers Hal. The original thinking was to mimic what I remember seeing in the eighties with the roof material having shrunk, torn and generally been removed, exposing the steel below. A bit like a vinyl roofed morris marina ;-) however, the effect was over the top as perviously discussed, particularly for late 60s early 70s. I find the salt technique would work well on a rusted painted surface like a mineral wagon. I use maskol for things like torn canvas or roof material as I assumed the mk1 would not just have painted roofs. But I accept I went a tad overboard with this one. Here is a wagon I was more restrained with! And a partially restrained use of maskol and white spirit. I think I have left a blob of maskol in place!!

Yes John there is an audience there is no denying that. However i worry that perhaps some folk may prefer being an audience instead of a participator, consumer over creator. I may well be catastrophising a bit of course. As for maintaining content we like, i agree which is why when the time comes I pester my local WHsmith as to whether they have the latest MRJ and when they do, make the signnof the cross before parting with £5.50!!! They think it might be in tomorrow!!! Now who has the real problem?? ;-)

I think the main difference is the BP builds were presented within a magazine format and anticipated the child not watching BP episode after episode interspersed with 10 second adverts on how "you can make money for doing *insert banal, meaningless pursuit* just like me!!!" With Yvette Fielding imploring us to like and subscribe every 5 mins ;-) In all seriousness I do see your point but the infinite choice thing and endless content fiills me with dread, a thing the hobby has helped stave off in my life thus far! Cheers

All fair comments Tom and proof of the diversity of experience in this hobby. It seems we have two opposing viewpoints, your quote above describing the exact opposite of what I value and no doubt my views are in complete opposition to yours. The problem you see as creating a house from a box IS my hobby. Not a problem, but an opportunity for absorbtion and excuse to spend countless hours doing something completely useless to anyone else other than me. I question whether you would have benefitted from vids earlier in your hobbying, instead perhaps you have developed creativity through the acquisition of skill by engaging one on one with tools and materials. This, as opposed to some innate ability being stifled until the correct level of skill handed on to you was achieved, validating your creativity. This is just my opinion of course and I accept there is a level of inner gift possibly. I also accept I might be taking things a little seriously but I love railway modelling and worry that youtube limits instead or inspires. However, times change and this is for sure, youtubers are here to stay and my view point will be all but extinct pretty soon.

It's not really a case of the hobby not being rewarding in its own right, but wanting to share it with others. You make very fair points throughout your reply Tom. I suppose motivations within the hobby are vastly different and as someone else states, it is a broad church. The desire to share with others and inspire is laudable indeed but something I dont share with you. I freely admit there is a base desire to show off but I hope it is simply pride motivating me to want to record my "achievements". (Yeah right, I just want likes!!) I exhibit, share on RMWEB, contribute to magazines etc because I love my hobby as I remember it and admired other people's layouts and wanted to be able to create the models I wanted. Exhibitions for me are an opportunity to spend 6 or 7 hours running a railway and chatting with peers and this is unquantifiably satisfying to me in its own right. If I were to present my layout as an inspiration then I think for me, I may well have lost my way as a hobbyist and potentially be suffering dunning kruger syndrome! As for demonstrating that the hobby is accessible to all, again this is laudable if a little lofty for me. Didnt this used to be father Christmas's job, delivering a trainset or pocket money buying a constituent part depending on santas (mum and Dads) budget? I dont believe people need an intermediary to understand that there is a path from trainset to being Roye England or Barry Norman, which is one of trial and error, experimentation, failure and above all, active participation in making. People actually find that out for themselves through desire and ingenuity (whoops, corporate rhetoric!!!) instead of experiencing the hobby vicariously through a screen. Perhaps i am arrogant, but I never required anyone to tell me because I was a poor kid I could still do railway modelling. Perhaps seeing a cereal box as a house is something people need to be told how to do but I doubt that very much. A youtuber demonstrating their brand new bells and whistles DCC number, a grown man submerging a trainset in a paddling pool, or someone begging for new toys would have quite easily put me off the hobby as a child...but then again, I have always been slightly odd. These examples are extreme of course and I wouldnt lump you in this category and admit I have watched and enjoyed a small number of youtube vids on modelling (inbetween dashcam footage, Boris bungles, jonathan pie and all the other crap I lose hours to). I am just concerned about the affect of these modern ways on a hobby I have used consistently to escape them...he typed on RMWEB!! Cheers Dave