westernviscount

Afternoon folks. Some help please. I am currently attempting to use a Dapol LMS Brake Van as the basis of a Stanier Reverse version... https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/h2f226a74 I would like to model it as a vac fitted vehicle, operating circa 1968-72 as a an engineers vehicle. Please advise on what livery you would suggest for a vehicle such as this in the period mentioned. Here is progress so far (ignore the roof) ...

A bit more progress today folks. The reason this van was rejected for the first revamp was because it was missing the inner cabin door piece. I took a look at some second hand donors on a well known auction site but felt that defied the object of the project. So a new piece needed to be made up. Styrene was used, a .5mm backing was built up first, seen here at the rear of the piece. The step will allow glazing to be fitted later. At the front of the piece, 6 planks made from what I think is .25mm styrene (which is what I have use for most of the other mods) were cemented to the front from the bottom up. This the same method used on the van ends. The window section was then made from .25mm styrene and cemented in place. Additional styrene strips were added around the door and .33mm wire used for a handle. A champhered lip is also in place at the bottom of the piece. As the other end door is still present I copied this for consistency but I dk have reference shots from the later brake I took at mangapps a couple of years ago... So here is progress so far. A temporary roof left over from the previous build is in place which will not be used. The chassis has started to have pieces pruned and will require the step to be removed and a longer one put in its place due to the door being re-sited.

So I went with the original 6inch ducket scratchbuilt from .25 mm plastikard. Very fiddly job and can't say I am eager to do the other side just yet. Below is the original Dapol ducket still in place. Then my narrower version... A view from the top to show there is a difference.

Quick update pic...

A comparison with the original RTR model here... I have included some corner braces on the veranda with rivets. More screw hole drilling needs to happen on the body sides and ends. I am now weighing up whether to scratch build a reduced size ducket each side as I cannot find any example photos of the larger ducket on these vehicles although @SP Steve suggests they did re-fit them with the larger ones shown here.

What are you going to glaze this with Mike?

A good observation and a very useful one. I shall be looking carefully through the collection to see what needs tweaking. Thanks!

Yes John same here. I made an error posting on this forum where I thought I was in the kitbuilding area. I moved the thread here if you are still interested to see the photos...

I agree Paul that they weren't originally but are now branded kitmaster. I suppose it's used to differentiate this product line from their new fangled, all singing all dancing range. I love the old airfix packaging!!

Dapol are still knocking them out and can be picked up for less than £7 normally. A superb kit. I find the inner ends are really thick and are hard to flush glaze. Not much to complain about really though.

Onward! More sanding of the veranda ends here. A view of the side. New beadng around the ducket, more "metal' trims added wherever i see them. I also intend to add the strengthening plates in corners. It seems the screw holes are quote prominent on the prototype so i have drilled some!!

As luck would have it I believe by simply reversing the sides the apertures are pretty much spot on. If my conversion from 2ft 8in to scale is correct then tge gap should be 10.7mm wide...which it is!!! My lucky day. Lotto tonight.

Some detail added to the end. I have committed to cementing the reversed veranda sides and used styrene to add planking and some other detail. Lots more to do though. The lip under the opening s need taking back further.

Now it just so happens I have my Dads copy of this on long term loan so will dig it out!! I cant believe I forgot I had this. I am modelling 1970ish and intend to include it in my engineers stock. Many thanks again!!

Thanks Steve. Keep it coming! I have attempted to match what I have made to the existing moulding which is a compromise yes. Although yes I do know the ends were planked, dont assume I know anymore!!! Would you happen to know of any pics of the vans with diagonal bracing? Many thanks

First part of the new end tacked in place. I took the centre strut measurement from my cambrian shark which I have assumed were near enough the same as these vans.

Good question Gordon!! They are really fragile and this one was already snapped. Also, it over hangs by about a mil and attempting to scrape back would be impossible. I intend scratchbuilding the centre strut and roof profile then laminating the entire face with scribed planks. Still hacking the veranda sides at the mo but am getting somewhere I think.

Morre carving this morning...i have removed the curved roof support and will scratch build a new end.

I have a more detailed thread of this over at the modifying RTR forum but thought I would share a brief account of what I am up to. I resurrected an old Dapol LMS van earlier this year and had one which was a bit rougher left over. So, I thought I would have a go at a more in-depth conversion. I intend to create a reverse stanier van by making a few changes. I have cut out the panels on the verandas and intend to fix them in reverse on the opposing sides. The brief start has I think begun to capture the required look. Here the right hand end has been modified and the left remains original. Some more drastic cutting and scratch building will be required to make a complete upgrade. This is what I am aiming towards... https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/h3be33a94

To capitalise on an out of character energy spurt I set about the shell with a chisel scalpel and sand paper. Handrails, rivets and the beading along the top of the body were taken back. Then i ploughed ahead with the removal of the window aperture panel. I wanted to preserve it to use on the opposing side. I ran a scalpel down the line on the inner end wall and across the line of the floor. The cuts were tidied with a sanding block. The remainder of the planking near the floor was scraped and sanded back. A notch was scraped into the cutaway piece so it could slot into the opposing side. Here it is loose fit as a trial. I am fairly pleased that the character of the reverse stanier is beginning to emerge at this early stage. Much carving and butchery to follow. Although creating a notch to marry up to the ends I have not decided how to tackle the end yet. A small drink might aid this part!

So having dug out the second donated brake van I am going to attempt a "reverse" Stanier Brake. An example is here on the Paul Bartlett site https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan. Here is the model as dug out of the drawer again... Butchery will ensue... The veranda doorways will be reversed, cutting the side window section and struts away and attempting to position them of the opposite side of the van. This is probably too optimistic and will require some scratchbuilding. The ends are quite different so a simple mod may not work. The "cant rail" needs to go Handrails fitted new bufferbeam furniture including buffers A refinement of the foot boards needs to happen rivet detail removed and screw marks created A potential re-scribe of the planking Guard's cabin doors scratch-built to replace missing ones A new roof as original missing and a finer beig needed anyway. I have not ruled out a Bill Bedford chassis but have never built one and feel it might be a greater expense than this project deserves. Any advice and suggestions are more than welcome. I don't have drawings of the vehicle but assume at this early stage that the doorways are equally as wide. Do we feel this is the case?

One reason for their absence could be that the moulded footboards are so thick they obscure any under frame detail.

Hi Derek. Dave Bradwell does a kit for this van which is really fine and detailed. Mine is a definite no expense incurred approach. I realise I have posted in the wrong forum. I have put it in the Kit build forum now.

Morning all. I have returned again to my favourite comfort kit, the kitmaster/Dapol 20t brake. This time I have tried to refine a couple more aspects including a new 3d printed inner end and door, .33mm handrails instead of my usual .5mm and some whitemetal buffers, coupling hook and vac pipe. As I think I have stated here before, I experimented with some CAD/CAM on this kit which involved drawing up some parts using microsoft 3D builder (free with windows 10) and printing using a monoprize 3D printer (Not my own/very basic). The print went slightly awry but was acceptable for my needs. This end shows the seperate door in the open position. Struts were made under the vehicle using L-section strip. New footboards made from styrene and solebars ribs created. L.M.S. whitemetal buffers etc were added and .33mm handrails added. Moulded handrails need to scraped away using a chisel scalpel first. On to painting. A semi-distressed look was achieved by priming the body with grey then painting using enamel colour in pristine condition. Other tones of brown and reds are dry brushed over the top along with some natural would colours. This dry then a thinned coat of tamiya acrylic nato brown painted over. Once touch dry, this layer is washed with thinners and "scrubbed" and "scratched" with a toothpick to allow the previous layer to show through in areas. This also gives the paint a subtle pealing, blistered texture. Metal parts are treated with rust coloured weathering powders worked into either the wet paint or brushed on matt varnish (dependant on tackiness). Once dry the acrylic brown is painted over and once this is dry, thinners is washed over and again attacked with a toothpick. Black powders are mixed with decalfix and washed over to darken it all down. A roof was made from styrene, correcting the placement of the vents, brass tube for the chimney and styrene strip for the rain strips. A coat of matt varnish spray is used to seal and dull down the colour. This stage does knock back a lot of the colour variation and perhaps a mist instead of a coat should be used. Lamp irons will need to be addressed as I attempted to cut corners using styrene but these are to fragile and not fine enough.

Morning all. I have returned again to my favourite comfort kit, the kitmaster/Dapol 20t brake. This time I have tried to refine a couple more aspects including a new 3d printed inner end and door, .33mm handrails instead of my usual .5mm and some whitemetal buffers, coupling hook and vac pipe. As I think I have stated here before, I experimented with some CAD/CAM on this kit which involved drawing up some parts using microsoft 3D builder (free with windows 10) and printing using a monoprize 3D printer (Not my own/very basic). The print went slightly awry but was acceptable for my needs. This end shows the seperate door in the open position. Struts were made under the vehicle using L-section strip. New footboards made from styrene and solebars ribs created. L.M.S. whitemetal buffers etc were added and .33mm handrails added. Moulded handrails need to scraped away using a chisel scalpel first. On to painting. A semi-distressed look was achieved by priming the body with grey then painting using enamel colour in pristine condition. Other tones of brown and reds are dry brushed over the top along with some natural would colours. This dry then a thinned coat of tamiya acrylic nato brown painted over. Once touch dry, this layer is washed with thinners and "scrubbed" and "scratched" with a toothpick to allow the previous layer to show through in areas. This also gives the paint a subtle pealing, blistered texture. Metal parts are treated with rust coloured weathering powders worked into either the wet paint or brushed on matt varnish (dependant on tackiness). Once dry the acrylic brown is painted over and once this is dry, thinners is washed over and again attacked with a toothpick. Black powders are mixed with decalfix and washed over to darken it all down. A roof was made from styrene, correcting the placement of the vents, brass tube for the chimney and styrene strip for the rain strips. A coat of matt varnish spray is used to seal and dull down the colour. This stage does knock back a lot of the colour variation and perhaps a mist instead of a coat should be used. Lamp irons will need to be addressed as I attempted to cut corners using styrene but these are to fragile and not fine enough.