60012 Commonwealth of Australia

Well, having said that I would start construction in November or December, today I promptly went down to Brunel Hobbies (the only shop in Melbourne which stocks components for handlaid track), and purchased 200 sleepers and 500 chairs. Both are a mix - the sleepers are a mix of 32mm ones for OO, and scale 8'6" ones. I have mixed the two together (as randomly as possible) to create a sort of industrial look, in the sense that they didn't pay much attention to the sizes of sleepers. The chairs are also a mixed bunch - there were only 2 packs in stock, one 3-bolt pack and one 2-bolt pack, so I bought both. The 3-bolts are the C&L ones, but the 2-bolt chair packet states it's an Alan Gibson item. I also have my eye on a kit they had in a box in a case - which I will be returning on Saturday to buy. I won't say what class (I can't remember which one it is anyway!) but it is an ex-Midland Railway one, which I will be finishing out in Lined BR Black with the Early Emblem (or Crest, which is correct? Hornby and Bachmann say Emblem, but I have heard it said that both are crests). When I got home this afternoon, I started laying sleepers. As of now, I have laid most of the 200 sleepers I bought, and the few that are left will start the kick-back siding. A couple of photos below: All that remains is for another 2 packs (100 sleepers in each) of sleepers, and some more chairs (when they're back in stock), and some Code 75 bullhead rail to be purchased, and I can finish the tracklaying. Brunel have the Code 75 rail on order, and that plus the chairs I already have (plus another pack of sleepers) will be enough for me to hopefully complete the run-around loop, and first dead-end siding, which gives me something to play with in the meantime. Peter **Edit** I have also decided on the name. The layout (and henceforth topic) shall be called Dunoon Sidings (Entirely original, I know!)

Recently, whilst clearing up various things in the shed/railway room, I came across the old baseboards for Dunoon (when I 'built' it in OO). This served as a reminder of one thing which I have not taken into account while doing my latest plans - my skills are simply not up to building a large layout (in any scale). This is shown by a number of things on Dunoon - baseboard alignment issues, track misalignments, point motor issues, and a couple of others. Luckily, the work I have done on Skipton has allowed me to rectify a number of problems I made with Dunoon, or rather managed to avoid them on Skipton, namely the baseboards line up at the correct level and height, I haven't had any major alignment issues (only one very minor one, which doesn't affect running), and so far (with the exception of the polarity switches on the SEEP point motors), I haven't had any issues at all with the wiring. Bearing in mind that I have only built 4 turnouts before, only two of which worked, and one of which was in gauge due to not using a proper track gauge. I have therefore decided to go with something much smaller than my initial plans for my first P4 layout. The base for this is an old shelf I found up in the shed, from one of my old desks. It has rather unusual measurements (134 x 36.5cm), however will work, and is made of 12mm? melamine? (I think, it has a white coating on the top). The track plan below is approximated - I did the actual one in Templot with A4.5 switches whereas the ones below are A4. The two shorter sidings fit 4 wagons, and the kick-back siding fits 6. The headshunt (and entry road) each fit a loco (size based off the length of a J94) and a wagon, but only just. This will allow me to practice laying, ballasting, and detailing track in P4, as well as have a go at kitbuilding locos - I am looking at buying a couple of High-Level kits for the layout, namely the Hawthorn Leslie 0-6-0ST, the 14inch RSH, and either the 11inch Hudswell Clarke or the Black Hawthorn. These will be purchased and built in due course. I may well take the opportunity to buy and build up a number of wagon kits as well, as I feel that I have the necessary skills to do these given all my wagon and coach building in HO. I have already printed out the Templot plan, and loosely stuck it down (with tape) to the "baseboard". When it comes time for point motors and wiring, a frame will be built up under the board. Some photos of the board as it sits now are shown below: I am hoping to start construction on this layout some time in November or December, but knowing how easily I can change my mind! I may well have changed something (or the entire thing) by then, without even having touched it. Fingers crossed this time I won't scrap the plan and do something else!!! All the best, Peter

Rule 1 would be nice, but given all my modelling is funded by pocket money and what money I can put together doing jobs for Dad, I can't afford to spend money on locomotives that I don't need (for Skipton or my P4 layout) - especially considering the cost of a B class including a DCC chip is $345 (Assuming a $50 DCC chip which is average in Melbourne), which is enough to buy 11-17 wagons kits or 7 coach kits. Or half a steam loco. Peter

Would be nice, but the Bs never ran to Skipton as they were too heavy for the line. In the 50s they were allowed to go to Linton (two stations before Skipton) however there is nothing suggesting that was ever taken advantage of. Next on the rolling stock list is more wagons and a couple of steam locos (J, K, D3 or N class). Peter

Whilst doing some testing last night, I made a short video of T320 running a 5-car tour train on Skipton. It's best viewed in 1080p HD. The video is available here: Peter

Yes, that was rather surprising! I was expecting it to be the platform or turntable pit, however the platform (as seen in the photos) is in a rather bad state, and the turntable pit has a number of the wooden components missing. The turntable is something I must get around to doing... Not looking forward to it, as I have never built anything that complex... The grain sheds should be much more simple, just some plasticard I beam, plasticard rod, and some form of fake corrugated iron. And there are no moving parts. Peter

Having discovered the smallest (size-wise) photo from my weekend at Skipton was 5mb large (I borrowed my brothers 24mp DSLR camera), I have decided to upload my photos to Flickr, and link them to here, rather than spend all the time waiting for them to upload here (much faster upload times). Photos available here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/145830718@N02/albums/72157679897467443 Peter

Had a sleepless night (been lying awake for hours, currently 3:20am). Subsequently, I've gone back to messing around in Anyrail with plans for the P4 layout. I came back to a couple of earlier ideas, namely Dunoon Harbour (the Harbour branch being a major point on the earliest plans for Dunoon in OO), and also the original station throat design - two plain turnouts, a 3-way, and a double-slip, leading into 2 main platforms and a dock platform. This arrangement is shown in almost all the previous designs for Dunoon (other than the one which had the throat on a curve). Here are the plans for said ideas: Dunoon Harbour: Very much too difficult for my current skill level. I'm also not happy with the way the goods yard is set out, or the size of the loco depot. I think in reality this kind of station would have been passenger only - with freight on a second pier, and a loco depot further down the line. Dunoon: Better, but still not completely happy. Parcels/milk dock at the top, with a dock road for local stopping services at the bottom. Other three platforms for main services. Single line branching off, either to Dunoon Harbour or an MPD (not to be modelled), undecided at the moment. Not entirely sure how realistic the goods sidings are. Would be good for trackbuilding though - 9 standard turnouts (B7 and B8), 2 double slips (B8), a single slip (B7), and a 3-way (B6; B8). The rebuild of Cudgee Sidings/North having been put in the schedule for after Skipton has pushed this layout further back, however the plan is to start in January 2018, at least with baseboards. If not it will be started in February - this has all been put in the calender. Schedule is to have Skipton finished by the end of August, to then start on Cudgee Sidings/North, which has a set completion date at January 1 (although will have to be before that - back in France to go skiing again for the first half of January). Whether I start in January or February is irrelevant though - I have set myself until December 14 to complete, finalise, and "sign off" on the plan, and name, whether it be Dunoon, Dunoon Harbour, Dunoon Road, etc. Reason for December 14? The Aussie release date of Star Wars Episode 8, and around the middle of December, allowing for a few weeks for earning the money to start baseboard construction in January/February. This thread may be updated every week, every month, or so on. It will depend how much planning I do. Any suggestions/ideas would be much appreciated Peter

Personally I like the look of the 1st one more, not entirely sure what it is about it that appeals to me though. Could be the potential for a lot of extra interest brought in by the milk/parcels siding, and the loco depot, along with the longer platforms. That being said, the 2nd one has much more of a "Minories" feel to it. Just my personal thoughts though. Peter *Edited as pressed post too soon*

Dang, I was late to the Walker discussion!!! Yes, it is a Walker. One of the 280HP design ones, with the centre power unit shipped out from the Walker Brothers in Wigan UK, and the coach units built in Newport. The smaller one at Healsville is a 153HP one, and they are currently restoring a trailer to go with it (I volunteer there every now and then, and have seen it being worked on) The one at Mornington (85RM) has been re-allocated to Daylesford, where it will undergo a full restoration to original condition (Delivery in 1950 to first modifications in 1954). Not sure when it will be moved though. Daylesford have a number of railmotors, including a DERM, two (now three, see above) 280HP Walkers, a 153HP Walker which is in the final stages of restoration, and a 102HP Walker, which used to be at Maldon (the only remaining 102HP one). The 153HP and 102HP Walkers use the same design of trailer unit. Healsville also have a DERM (62RM), which is sitting in one of the sheds, however it has never (to my knowledge) been used on the railway. Daylesford use their DERM (63RM) on a very regular basis. Walkers are all mechanical transmission. My lack of checking isn't due to school (I have some spare time after school, between homework requirements) - I just haven't checked RMWeb as much as I would like recently, and have been out without internet for the weekend. The big one is a 280HP Walker. The only difference between the 102HP and 153HP Walkers are the power unit - the passenger unit (built by the VR at Newport) is the same. They were designed to last 10-15 years (102s being delivered from 1948 to 1950, 153s delivered in two batches, in 1948-1949 and 1953-1954, and the 280s delivered in 1950-1952), however the last of each type lasted until 1981, 17-23 years longer than expected. Daylesford have just about got one of each type of railmotor ever to run in Victoria prior to the Sprinters introduced in 1993, excluding the AEC (Although they have a chassis for one), some of the earlier (pre-1915) designs, and the Brill railmotor from South Australia. The DERMs lasted far longer than any other railmotor - the first being built in 1928, and the last withdrawn sometime in the mid 1990s (the date seems a bit flexible, sometime between 1993 and 1995). All 10 were originally built as PERM (Petrol Electric Rail Motors), and were rebuilt with Detroit diesel engines between 1951 and 1953-4. Two (55 and 61) were modified in 1976 to have all Economy class seating, relocation of the engine, and becoming 4' (I think) longer. Hope this extra information helps clear it all up (and sorry for taking it off-topic a couple of days after the discussion took place) Peter

Thanks Brian. The trip was very informative - I found out a lot of things, including placement of things at Skipton - I now know I need to re-align a couple of tracks to get the alignment accurate, so that'll be fun!! I also found out there's a steep embankment to the end of the livestock siding, which I sadly won't be able to model due to the type of baseboards - if I'd done it as an L-girder style baseboard I could have (I could modify the boards to a style close-to the L girder type, but it would require a significant investment in both time and money, neither of which are on my side at the moment). Some of the minor alignment issues will be sorted when I get home this evening. I also learnt that I need to invest in some sheep wagons - I had (mistakenly) assumed the livestock races had been for cattle... Having ridden out 30km from Skipton, I saw about 400 sheep, and about 20-30 cows. Unfortunately, I can only get (decent) sheep wagons as kits (very difficult to get right I have heard), or in R-T-R packs of 6, for $356 (about 178GBP), which is more than a loco. So I think the time will be spent on doing some of the $30 kits, and hope that I get them right! Along with those, I now have enough photos to start scratchbuilding the two grain storage sheds that were present in the 1950s. Sadly there are no diagrams or R-T-R versions (not even ones close enough for a kitbash), so I will have to rely on plasticard to scratchbuild the two from my photos. All in all, it has been a very very useful trip, and I only regret that I didn't make it before I started the baseboards!! Some photos of the station, and photos of whatever work I get done this evening will come later on. Peter

Am off to Skipton for the weekend. I'm going to be doing the rail-trail to Ballarat, and getting as many photos as possible of what is left of the station. Photos on Sunday evening. Peter

No more progress today, as have spent all my time up in the shed playing testing the wiring. No short circuits, yay! A couple of places where the loco slows down temporarily but after the track and loco wheels have been cleaned that shouldn't be a problem. One of my locos, T333, has an awful noise when I run it, so I'll have to take it apart to see what the problem is. One of my mates locos, Y150, just doesn't run full stop, so I will return it to him for him to get it repaired/looked at. I'm going out to an exhibition tomorrow, and I hope to get the buildings I need (except for the grain sheds, which aren't available as kits or R-T-R). Peter

Of course when I edit it to say the embedding didn't work, it works.

This morning I finished the wiring on the centre board, and ran the first train! Embedding didn't work. Video available here: Peter

Warning - this will be a long post! **Edit** Not quite as long as I'd thought! **This bit removed due to duplicate posting)** In the afternoon, I started laying the track over the third baseboard. Once I'd finished laying the track, I cleared everything off the baseboard, and had a play around. I went through a full sequence, which is basically: Passenger train arrives. Goods train arrives and starts shunting. Passenger train departs. Goods train continues shunting. Passenger train arrives. Goods train departs. Passenger train departs. Goods train arrives. Goods train shunts. Goods train departs. This sequence overall took about 55 movements (all being pushed by hand as there's no power to the rails). I got photos of 51 of the movements, however as there are so many I won't post them here. When the layout is powered and running, I will make a video and upload it to youtube of the full sequence. At the end of the day, once I'd removed the locos to their boxes, and put all the stock back in their sidings, I took a couple of photos of the layout with nothing but track on it. I'm very happy with how it has turned out, and I'm really looking forward to getting some wires in and running some trains properly! Finally, I had a couple of modifications to do. My new Y class is by Austrains, and while it is a very nice model, it has a couple of flaws. My version is of Y145, as running in the 1960s and 1970s with full blue handrails. This version should have a single airbrake hose at each end, as shown in these pictures below of Y112 and Y125, both in 1978 (Photos taken from http://victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/ydie/ydie.html ) However, the Austrains model features 4 airbrake hoses, suitable for the period 1983-ish onwards (I haven't found a specific date for the changeover), as shown in the pictures below of my model of Y145 prior to modification. Now. While I could leave it as-is, with the 4 airbrake hoses, and not many people would know that it was wrong, it would bug me to no end. So, I decided to remove the 3 hoses that shouldn't be there. The two on the left hand side, and the one on the far right hand side. This was achieved by pulling the hoses out with tweezers - they simply slotted into a small hole in the pilot. This left me with 6 spare airbrake hoses. It also left me with a much more accurate model of Y145 as running in the early 1960s. Luckily, as shown (or rather not shown), the holes from the extra brake hoses are very difficult to see, even in photographs. In order to keep the extra hoses, in case I (or someone else) ever need them, I stuck them into the polystyrene surrounds of the box. That's all for this update, as I said, it was quite a long one, but now that the track and baseboards are done there won't be much visual stuff happening on the layout until the wiring is complete, and after that it will be time for rigorous testing prior to scenic work. Peter

Thanks. It's my first time modelling Australian railways, previous layouts have been either freelanced with a mix of British, European and Australian, and then after that they were British, but I wanted a layout that I could finish quickly, which is difficult for P4, and the extra track costs (my old P4 layout plan would have cost me at least twice as much as this one has so far). The baseboards are the best ones I've built so far, and I'm very pleased with them, however I can still improve. I collected a new locomotive and wagons this morning in a swap. I wanted to get rid of my V/LINE locomotives, which are too late (1980s and 1990s livery) for Skipton. I made a deal to trade them with someone on Facebook for a VR Y class, 2 T insulated vans, 2 U louvre vans, an HD van, and a ZP guards van. When I went to do the trade, the guy very kindly gave me 5! extra ones for free! I got 3 UB bogie louvre vans (one without bogies/couplers), and 2 B vans. These were built from kits, and need brake detailing, but I'm not complaining! With the addition of these wagons, I can now focus on grain wagons and open wagons (I only have 2 open wagons, but over 15 vans). Photos of the new stock below: **EDIT **The UB van missing the bogies had a set of spare bogies fitted. It's the more orange van at the end of the train and will be repainted into VR pre-1956 brown.** I also took a photo of all my stock in the fiddle yard. There's another loco and 10 wagons for Skipton (belonging to a mate) which will be used at running sessions and exhibitions; these aren't shown in the below image. There are still 2 empty tracks. One will be filled up by another railmotor, either a DERM or a 280HP Walker, and the other by my mates Y class and grain train. I'm planning to get the last of the track laid this afternoon/evening. Peter

Here are some more photos of the new E cars. If put in the center fiddle yard road, all 5 E cars and a T class will fit (with the not-yet-fitted buffers removed), with no room to spare. These first photos are replicating the E set being used as a tour train, with the consist T320 - T333 - 18BE - 3BE - 6ABE - 18AE - 19CE. The double header T class will not fit in the fiddle yard, and the second T fouls the 3-way at the entrance to the yard. These last couple of photos are of three of the carriages being used as a railmotor replacement service, comprising of 6ABE for the first class accomodation, 3BE for the main passenger accomodation, and 19CE for the guard and baggage part. Normally it would be ABE - BE - BCE or BE - ABE - BCE, as usually a full guards/baggage van wasn't warranted. More rolling stock (Y class, 3 louvre vans, 2 insulated vans, and a guards van) are being collected tomorrow and photos will come when they have been collected. Peter

That's a good idea actually. Might even let me fit a full 5-coach set in the sidings as well. Thanks for posting the link to the video, it's very interesting to watch. Peter

More rolling stock! This time it's 5 Auscision E type passenger carriages. 1 was acquired as part-payment for another item, and the remaining 4 were obtained in a swap with a mate, so I now have 4 E cars suitable for 1954 to 1963, and he now has 4 N cars, suitable for 1995 to 2004. The number of the single car is 18BE, and the set of 4 is 18AE, 6ABE, 3BE, 19CE. AE is First Class, ABE is First/Second, BE is Second Class, and CE is a guards/parcels van. The equivelant British designations would be FK (AE), CK (ABE), SK (BE) and BG (CE). The E denotes the type of carriage (stands for Express), A is First Class, B is Second Class, C is guards van, and D is bulk mail (although there is no DE, the only bulk mail coaches on the VR were DS and D, used on the Spirit of Progress and Adelaide Express respectively.) These will be arranged in a consist 18BE - 3BE - 6ABE - 18AE, with the CE guards van on either end. Photos below of the consist as stated above: These were taken very quickly, as I had to leave for something else as soon as I got home. I'll take some better ones later in the day. Still need to see if the whole set fits in the fiddle yard though! Peter

Had a read through this after your comments in my own thread. Very nice layout, looks like you've had quite a bit of fun operating it! Just a couple of my thoughts regarding your most recent plan for the replacement/new layout - I like the plan shown in post #218, but I do think the 4-track approach is a bit overkill. Might it be worth replacing the track crossovers with a section of track turning the 4 tracks into two, but potentially using slips to keep the crossovers in place. I've just done a quick draw-up of one in Anyrail, using two SL-E190 code 75 double slips, an SL-E188 left-hand turnout, and an SL-E189 right-hand turnout to show what I mean: This fits into 125cm (around 49.2", including the curves). Just a thought, not sure if it fits into the overall plan or if there was a specific reason for having the 4 track approach. Topic has been followed, and I will be watching with interest. All the best, Peter **EDIT** They are both large-radius points, and could easily be swapped for medium radius to reduce the length if desired.

No proper work on Skipton today, however there will be a new rolling stock addition tomorrow. I have organised to trade my V/Line N type passenger carriage set (suitable for the time period 1995 to 2004), for a Victorian Railways E car set, suitable for the time period 1954 to 1963, containing an AE first class carriage, an ABE composite coach, a BE second class coach, and a CE guards van. Along with another BE car obtained today, this will make up the tour train on Skipton when another guards van is obtained. These will also make up the railmotor replacement services, which will be: Loco (T) - BE - BE - ABE (with the first class end of the ABE at the Melbourne end). The tour train will be CE - BE - BE - ABE - AE - BCE/CW (depends on whether we get a BCE or a CW. BCE is preferred however hard to get.) Photos of the full train (19CE - 3BE - 18BE - 6ABE - 18AE) will be posted tomorrow. We also started another wagon (yet another GY for the grain train). This evening however, I took a photo of my complete locomotive and railmotor fleet on the Skipton fiddle yard. From left to right: V/Line P18; V/Line Freight X33; VR 31RM; VR T333; VR T320 P18 and X33 will be sold/traded off, as they are both too late for the model - X33 is in a late 1990s livery, and was built in 1966, whereas P18 is in a 1980s-1990s livery and was built in 1985, both built too late, and in the wrong liveries. Peter **EDIT** Since writing this, I have arranged to trade X33 and P18 on Wednesday, for a VR Y class as Y145, to be converted to Y102 as-built, along with 2 U vans, 2 T insulated vans, an HD van, and a ZP guards van.

I've done more research, and have now decided the location. It will be somewhere in Glasgow, with the local sheds being 65A "Eastfield" and 65B "St Rollox". This allows me to have a mix of ex-LNER and ex-LMS locos. It will be firmly set in January 1961. I have also decided on the classes of loco to be used as the pilot - LNER V3 2-6-2T British Rail Class 08 0-6-0 British Rail 4MT Tank 2-6-4T LMS Fairburn 4P 2-6-4T For now, I will only purchase one (possibly two) of these. Most likely the 08 and the 4MT. This allows a mix of classes and prototypes, and includes a diesel shunter as well. The main services will mainly consist of Black 5s, 5MTs, B1s, K2/1s, 4MTs, Class 21, Class 24, and Class 26. I already have a 5MT and 26, so forseeable future acquisitions will most likely consist of a Black 5, a B1, and a 4MT. While I would also very much like a Jinty or J72 as a shunter, I need to be strict with rolling stock purchases for this layout, due to the cost of the VR rolling stock for Skipton (with the average Victorian diesel costing $300 (150GBP), and the average steam loco costing around $900 (450GBP)), as with one exception, the only steam rolling stock available is either in brass, costing around $1600 (800GBP), or in kit form, at around $600, plus build costs. Hence my decision to set it firmly in 1961, and only using rolling stock from sheds 65A and 65B (I use brdatabase.info to get allocation lists). Coaching stock (subject to further research) will probably include: BR Mk1 (of which I have around 10 or so of different types, and still not enough) Ex-LNER Thompson Corridor coaches Ex-LNER Gresley Corridor coaches Ex-LNER Thompson Non-Corridor coaches Ex-LNER Gresley Non-Corridor coaches Ex-LMS P3 Corridor Coaches Ex-LMS Non-Corridor Coaches. This is a wide variety, however for now (with the exception of a couple of FO and BCK from Hornby, and a couple more BSKs), I have enough Mk1s, so can focus on the older stock. All stock will be renumbered to Sc xxxxxx E or Sc xxxxx M, to denote Scottish based stock, ex-LNER or LMS. Peter **EDIT** Edited to denote V3 as a 2-6-2T, not a 2-6-2

Thanks Brian. It's very difficult during school term to get work done, so I'm making the most of the holidays to get as much done as possible. I have at least one person (hopefully two) coming over today to help, and we're planning to get the track laid on the third baseboard, and possibly start wiring (or at least wiring preparations). Peter

Just had a quick read through. I'm very impressed by how much you are sticking to a prototype. I've always wanted to model a prototype, but have never found one that suits what I like, and the space I have, at the same time. Something I would very much like to find one day. One note about compression. My Victorian layout Skipton is compressed in a particular way. I got the overall length of the layout, which would have been around 5m long if I had done it to scale. Then, calculating the length, I figured out I could do it to 71% of the original length (very specific, I know!). I kept the buildings and turntable the same size, however shortened the track. Of course this wouldn't work so well with a layout with a lot of buildings (Mine only has 4 buildings, 2 grain sheds, a goods shed, and a small station building), as some buildings would have to be omitted. However I have done this in plans before, various other plans have been shortened to lengths, generally somewhere between 60% and 80% of the original length (of course all of these haven't been built, except for Skipton). Hopefully you find this useful. Will be keeping an eye on this one, as I very much like the Scottish prototypes. Peter