[DCC definitions... an update required?]

17 minutes ago, McC said:

If anything it makes a case for only shipping models DCC fitted and DCC Sound fitted? Both options support DC running and both provide full functionality?

 

We all have our preferred brands of decoder. How would you ensure that a model was fitted with the brand we want? That's what "DCC Ready" is for.

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

4 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Photo of the ''twin cities'' composite courtesy of Chris Nevard/Kernow. Outstanding livery application.

 

 

 

Is the black actually black this time? Sorry, I had to have a little dig.

We will only know if these models are OK when we have them in our own hands.

[Layout Plan Advice Update]

9 hours ago, Danknight said:

I keep looking at railway plans but I’m struggling to see what I can do to make it more realistic in the space I have. Anything really obvious where I’ve gone wrong?

 

Think about the railway in a scene, not just some track on a board.

 

Double track around the outside of the baseboards leaves no room for any scenery outside the tracks so it's really difficult to make it look natural - you'll always see the "edge of the world". Leave room for roads and houses, fields, trees, rivers as well as the railway scenery like station buildings,  water towers, signal boxes, etc...

 

Facing points in main lines. They were avoided as far as possible on steam/early diesel railways.

 

Complex junctions with diamond crossings connecting the outer circuit to your inner loop. Things like that probably happened in the real world but they would have been very unusual and wouldn't have looked anything like what Setrack forces you to do. (If you were using Streamline you'd have more options.)

 

Wiggles. Try to keep it all as smoooth as possible especially on the main lines. Use the corner curves to start your crossovers, don't wait for the curve to straighten out and then have points that turn outwards again - that's classic trainset stuff.

 

Platform length. Not long enough to look right and any train that’s three coaches or longer (I guess) won't fit without looking silly.

 

Loop around the goods shed with short spur beyond. Fine for processing vans efficiently in the real world but the vans would have been moved by hand with pinch bars. Locos were usually not allowed to run through goods sheds (although it did happen). That makes a loop like that difficult to use realistically in a model. You also need to provide road vehicles access to the goods shed. That can actually be across the loop track at a push but it was most common to keep the road and rail vehicles separate for simplicity and safety.

 

[Layout Plan Advice Update]

Hi Dan,

 

It's a classic trainset but it's not realistic. It's very hard for us to comment on trainsets because by definition they can be anything you like. So, if you like it, build it.

 

If you want a more realistic model railway then I suggest you look at some model railway plans and read some books about designing model railways before continuing.

 

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

30 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Many thanks Rob for this. A definitive outing for black without question. The trick is to enlarge the images of both. The Accurascale Manor remains sharp black. The Dapol Mogul fades outward with a tinge of pink. Well it does to my eyes anyway. The conclusion has to be that the smoke box black on the GWR Moguls is unfortunately repeated with the overall black of the WR examples. Both models shown on your image are lined with small BR e/c. 

 

The A/S Manor smokebox has a matt finish which makes it look lighter.

 

The Dapol Mogul's smokebox has the same satin finish as the rest of the black areas on that model and similar to the non-smokebox areas of the A/S Manor - and similar to 99% of GWR loco models we've ever seen.

 

Dapol would be very foolish indeed to try to replicate the different surface finish of the A/S Manor smokebox by greying down their standard satin finish over the entire model - and I don't think that's what they've done. I think they've either chosen to use grey for some other reason that's difficult to understand or it's a factory mistake.

 

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

I just returned my grey mogul.

 

I couldn't live with it and I couldn't face dismantling it, masking it up, buying an airbrush, learning to airbrush, etc., etc... to put it right.

 

😞

 

[Tortoise Point Motor Switch Wiring]

28 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

If it is just one LED, I'd be inclined to connect one C pin to + and the other C pin to -. If the LED comes on for the wrong position, simply cross these wires over.

 

Yes, my previous suggestion was wrong. I think the two LED connectors are simple + and - across the internal LED and there's no internal connection to other parts of the switch.

 

Sorry, the way the product is described on AliExpress is a bit confusing!

 

 

[Tortoise Point Motor Switch Wiring]

51 minutes ago, sulzer71 said:

The help from everyone has been invaluable , think I'm going to look at the illumination of the switch itself which I managed to get working from jumping a positive and negative feed to but wouldn't mind seeing if I could rig it so it's on when switched left or right but off in the centre position

The internal LED (LEDs, plural?) is connected to one of the C common pins and the switch includes a resistor for the LED (that's what the voltage ratings on the side are about).

 

So, assuming that the switch is rated 12V, I think that bridging from one of the NC or NO pins (i.e. to 0v or +12v) to one or both of the LED pins should do the job. If the LED comes on in the wrong sense, connect to the other C pin.

 

Scrub that. It's wrong.

[Tortoise Point Motor Switch Wiring]

Great! I thought that a wiring diagram showing the actual back of the switch would help because it's an unconventional device.

 

And thanks to @Jeremy Cumberland for pointing out my initial mistake.

 

[Tortoise Point Motor Switch Wiring]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

The other way round, surely. The red wire to both NO terminals and the black wire to both NC terminals (or vice versa). @sulzer71's already shown that one side works as an SPDT.

Yes, you're right. This:

[Tortoise Point Motor Switch Wiring]

If you've got the 3-position version of the switch then the normal crossover wiring for a DPDT to reverse polarity is already built into the switch.

 

So have you tried this:

[Deleted incorrect diagram]

 

The centre off position will connect both Tortoise power connections to either 0V or +12V, which is fine.

 

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

2 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

Interesting that my observations have not generated any comments.

I am sure that if this had been a Hornby model the experts would have been queuing up to tear strips off them.

It looks like Dapol have got the black wrong on some of the other versions ?

Sounds like the original class 73 livery issues all over again.

 

It's either weary acceptance, too early for most people to have formed their own opinions or not wanting have a go at a manufacturer that is making a decent effort to upgrade a model and provide new variations.

 

But to get the colour black wrong is a bit of a howler...

 

[Kernow GWR steam rail motor]

12 minutes ago, mikesndbs said:

Well I'm hacked off! Sent my faulty model back on Sunday 4th Feb, it was delivered at 13:09 on the 7th and still my order status has not been updated and no sign of the replacement.

Had an email saying there was staff sickness etc but really?

Or am I just being too impatient for me expensive one coach wonder?

 

I guess some issues are more time-consuming to solve than others.

 

It's also possible that they might be trying to find a permanent fix for problems related to the motion rather than simply sending out replacements that might then develop the same problem again.

 

I think we just have to be patient for a while longer.

 

[GWR 1920s & 30s engine running shed colours]

The GWR Structure Colours book (1912-1947) says this for loco shed doors, in summary:

Typically:

• Below 5ft (or below half height), either black or chocolate (Standard Tint No. 4)
• Above 5ft (or above half height), Standard Tint No. 2 for the vertical boarding. Frames and any visible ledges and bracing picked out in Standard Tint No.3.
• The same scheme applied inside and out.
• If there were fixed timber panels beside the doors the same scheme applied to them.
• All ironwork, black

But there were local variations and sometimes doors would be painted Standard Tint No. 3 all over.

 

[Kernow GWR steam rail motor]

10 hours ago, didcot said:

 

Would it be this piece of the valve gear. This is my first 97. This was catching as you described. I had other problems as well so it went back. The same piece wasn't as bad on my replacement, but it did move up and down slightly. I thought I could see daylight as it moved up, but it was the light reflecting of a tiny location pin on the top slide bar. I stopped it in the right place and could see the pin using a magnifier.  I applied a tiny amount of glue with a bit of Peco signal wire to the pin and eased the end back down. It's much better and the valve rod doesn't move up and down. I suspect it may have failed if I hadn't. 

 

The black moulding is the valve stem and valve stem guide. It should be exactly horizontal (assuming the bogie is sitting on level track) and in the prototype the stem guide is fixed to the upper crosshead guide.

 

It's interesting that it more frequently seems to be the model of No. 97 that shows these problems. Maybe that's just because that version is more popular than the others.

 

Edit: Nope, You can actually see the part bending up and down in AY Mods' video of No. 61 on a rolling road:

 

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

In natural daylight: old mogul at the rear, new mogul at the front:

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

4 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I’m therefore in a quandary about a black e/c version .The only guides I have atm are images on Kernow & Rails websites. 

Well, as per your advice to me, you need to see one "in the flesh", if you can. But I would certainly suggest not judging it standalone - you need to have another loco of similar livery alongside.

🙂

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I don’t believe I ever saw what was under the filth in any case.Unless of course in one of the late Peter W Gray’s photographs.That would be one taken at NA in BR.green.

 

I know BR didn't give its inherited steam locos much love but the GWR had pride in it's creations. It's not so easy to use a grime overcoat to hide painting errors on models from that era.

 

Models are most commonly supplied in ex-works condition. That's why coach roofs are white and the copper and brass in the cab gleams. It's always been up to us to weather it down to the desired extent. So either Dapol have got the ex-works black wrong or they are telling us that black was really grey on this loco.

 

Furthermore, I think we can legitimately expect our models not to violently change colour when we photograph them. Just look at @gwrrob's photos if you want a real shock!

 

I'm not happy about this - not sure I can live with it or find a reasonable way to mitigate it.

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

1 minute ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Is that the David Maidment book about Moguls and Prairies? I was flicking through it this afternoon as well.

No, this: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/9780907036098/

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

13 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

 

There's is still several on ebay. Definitely worth getting if you want to expand knowledge on these locos, I am having a great time delving in to my copy.

Yes, it's a comprehensive book (but at first glance it doesn't answer the steam heating question).

 

I got a copy from Abebooks.co.uk and as I write this there are 6 copies available on that platform.

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

6 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

OK. I’m just looking at my transition 7301 from the first rendition.Your complaint re: body is present here too,as it is on Robin’s current image of his new release if you look closely. So this would suggest to me that it’s systemic with the manufacture and possibly design of this model. So it might well be the case that a replacement will exhibit the same idiosyncracy that is annoying you presently. Ivan CK has the opportunity of looking closely at one in his local model shop. Thus a similar excursion for you if it is possible may be the way forward. Good luck.

Yes, I agree. I can even see the gap in my first batch mogul 6336, but not quite as obvious.

 

I think my "local" model shop is probably the same as CK's since the one in Exeter closed - but it's still a 45min drive away over Dartmoor!

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

56 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

A few shots this afternoon of my Dapol 43xx 5320 running in. Looks to be a good one and the coal load came out without a song and dance.

 

 

 

 

The "black" is definitely not black there, is it! This is not just a camera or lighting artefact - I'm seeing something similar.

 

Edit: To clarify: The model doesn't look anything like that colour in real life, so the camera is affecting the image but nevertheless you can see the difference in colour with your own eyes when the new mogul is stood alongside other locos.

 

[OO gauge GWR Mogul and Prairie]

I meant to post some photos of 5350 here, but I posted them in ANTB instead. Here's the link:

 

I said in that post that my smartphone was doing funny things with the colours but I think I was mistaken. It's Dapol doing funny things!

 

Have a look at this:

 

5350 new batch top left, 6336 first batch bottom right.

 

This difference in colour of the "black" parts is real - 5350 is very obviously dark blue-grey. That's true of all her "black" parts, wheel centres, tender, etc.

 

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

Actually, I meant to post those photos in the Prairie and Moguls thread but, heck, this is close enough!

 

Some of the photos are cruel close-ups but they do show that the general fitment of parts could be better, I think.

• The body doesn't sit down on the running plate as it should
• The handrail knobs are too big (not unusual for RTR models) but even so some of them have been damaged by the hand rail wire being roughly pushed through them
• The coal load doesn't sit down properly (not a big deal, just noting it)
• The cab glazing is a bit wonky and the porthole glazing seems to sit on top of the cab sheet. Not sure what's going on there - I wonder if some of the transparent plastic should have been painted loco green? Or maybe it is painted but we can see inside, behind the paint, because of refraction?

[A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.]

Here are a few shots of 5350, as received, showing some high points and low points: (Please don't worry about the colours - the smartphone is playing it's own game with them!)