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Stoat's Nest

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  1. The two high arc roof LBSCR vehicles seen here on this E. J. Bedford photo of the up Newhaven Boat train at Lewes post 1889 remain unidentified. I have found a photo of what is described as a Midland horsebox kit (photos below), but there seems to be some doubt about who the kit's maker is, or was. There seems to be a similarity (compare photos), given that the Bedford photo is taken at an acute angle and the arc of the Midland vehicle is not a smooth continuous arc and its planking is vertical, not horizontal as on the Brighton vans. I've never found a drawing or Diag. number or a more detailed photo of the Brighton van, but it looks about the same length as the vehicle in front which is either a Stroudley PLV or a Bullion van. Its function also remains mysterious, but they always seem to have gone around in pairs. Anyone know the Midland horsebox kit's maker, availability or ceased trading?

     

    224878815_BedfordphotoofunidentifiedvansonNewhavenboattrain.png.ae1f47186aebf56083d3fc916850c69d.png

    LMS Horsebox High arc roof cf. LBSR vehicle at Newhaven in E.J.Bedford book.png

    Midland Horsebox.png

    1. Show previous comments  7 more
    2. Stoat's Nest

      Stoat's Nest

      By the way, is this SkinnyLinny Laser-cut Stroudley 8 ton van kit still available?   

      Screen Shot 2021-04-01 at 08.45.46.png

    3. Stoat's Nest
    4. BlueLightning

      BlueLightning

      Linny Laser cutting is unfortunately shut down, with no idea on if it will ever return, if it does though, that is a very nice kit, I built one at the weekend!

  2. An unidentified Billinton B4 heading the Brighton Pullman Ltd train in what is probably Bronze green/ red oxide roof and ornate gilded livery with open verandah Pullman cars. It has 7 full length cars and a Pup at the front. The head code on the buffer beam indicates its route is via the Quarry Line, opened in 1900.  I thought at first it was the Southern Belle, having 7 cars, but the Southern Belle didn't begin until November 1908  and its livery was Cream and Umber with white roofs, vestibules instead of open verandahs and ran on 6 wheel bogies, not 4.  A B4 was unlikely to still be in Stroudley IEG that late.  My Inspector Clouseau side came to the conclusion that the photo must have been taken sometime between summer 1900 and late summer 1908 somewhere between Norbury and Haywards Heath.  Can anyone hazard a guess at the name of this service and whether it ran from Victoria or London Bridge.

    B4 in IEG with early 7 car Pullman train passing Manor Farm south of Norbury station (1900-1908).png

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. AVS1998

      AVS1998

      All cars pre 1908 were American kits. And these cars were then cascaded to other services such as the City Limited or resort expresses to Eastbourne, Hastings and Bognor. The Pups were both done away with by 1914 - one was burned out in an accident, the other scrapped. After this, all Pullmans, I believe I'm correct in saying, were retrofitted with dynamos (likely Stones), perhaps alongside their reconfiguring into enclosed entranceways and so on. 

       

    3. Stoat's Nest

      Stoat's Nest

      "........these cars were then cascaded to other services"

       

      Did these cars retain their original colour scheme i.e. Bronze green, red roofs and gilded decoration on the coach sides after 1908 ?

    4. AVS1998

      AVS1998

      They were repainted into umber and cream by around 1910, though Albert Victor reportedly retained an oxide roof until around 1920, according to C. H. Ellis. Most unusual given it was no longer part of the official paint scheme. 

  3. Ex-NLR 28' 4-wheelers sold to the LBSCR - Conclusion As a result of all the replies, full of considerable erudition on this topic and other information less germaine to the matter, can I now safely assume that the LRM website assertion that: "These coaches were built ........ A substantial number of all types were sold out of service to companies as diverse as the ....... LBSCR ........etc. ", can be regarded as so much advertising hype or, in old fashioned terms, a total red herring?
  4. I have a question about ex North London Railway carriages sold to other companies, in particular to the LBSCR. According to London Road Models, that make three of these 28 foot long 4 wheelers, some were sold to the Brighton, but they give no indication of the dates these transactions occured. I'm interested in the late Victorian/Edwardian period, between 1890 and 1910. I've never seen any photos of ex NLR carriage stock running on Brighton metals, so this comes as a mini revelation. I believe the NLR, which had running powers over a considerable mileage of other railways' routes, could have
  5. "The GER also ran to Croydon BTW, and was Tottenham really served by the LBSC?" The dreaded predictive text algorithm was at work again: woe to those who don't watch what they type with hawk like diligence. I intended to write Tattenham, which the algorithm has never heard of and ended up in Crewe, not Tottenham. "Oh, mr Porter, whatever shall I do?" etc. I've not found any photographic evidence of the GER at Croydon (New Croydon station on the 1898 six inch map) but there is a rather grainy photo of the entrance to the Fairfield yard (LBSCR) which Klaus Marx says closed in
  6. "The GER also ran to Croydon BTW, and was Tottenham really served by the LBSC?" The dreaded predictive text algorithm was at work again: woe to those who don't watch what they type with hawk like diligence. I intended to write Tattenham, which the algorithm has never heard of and ended up in Crewe, not Tottenham. "Oh, mr Porter, whatever shall I do?" etc.
  7. I've looked at the SERkits site and though mainly 7mm, he offers scaled down etches only, of some of his kits and drawings in 3.5mm and 4mm. Unlike some etched brass kits from other makers, SERkits offerings seem to be a bit of a scavenger hunt requiring not just the usual wheel set, axles, motor, gears and pickups etc. but loads of bits of lost wax parts available, that might be in stock, from a wide variety of different suppliers and which need modifying to be in scale with the rest of the model. The site itself doesn't seem to have been updated since 2017 so, I'll need to contact him abo
  8. Has anyone modelled the South Eastern Railway? It merged with the London Chatham & Dover Railway in 1899 to form the SE&CR. The shade of loco green is a problem since Precision paints appear to have never heard of the SER and they never put colour representations of many of these colours on their website anyway and Railmatch aren't helpful either. As a watercolour artist, I would describe the shade of green as Deep Cupric green or Brominated Pthalocyanine, which will have lots of you scratching your heads. It's a sort of bluish green and is also called Holly Green, but holly bushes can
  9. There is a photo Klaus Marx's book An LB&SCR Album looking south from East Croydon station c.1900 showing LNWR Webb 2-4-2T with a rake of carriages waiting to return from where the Croydon Town hall was later built. The caption mentions regular GER services, but fails to say which company's locos hauled them. The photo was taken on a misty day probably in late autumn or winter at distance so details are very indistinct.
  10. "wonderfully fanciful" : It also puts Marseille just north of the Isle de France, east of Rouen.
  11. "If 4mm, 5&9 models produce a kit". Having looked at the 5 & 9 website it shows a 4 wheel carriage truck and, I quote the description from the page : (Covered Carriage Truck Please Note: This kit is discontinued. High roofed vehicle for conveying horse-drawn carriages.) The 5 & 9 vehicle in question (seen below) has a tumblehome and the curvature of the roof, although a high pitched arc, is not a simple curve, but curves steeply near the edge of the roof where it joins the carriage sides like a "balloon' coach profile. Compare this with the two photos on
  12. Thanks Ian. In the HMRS photos section there is a photo of an early Grande Vitesse* van (see photo below) but, because of the quality of the photo the top of the roof seems to blend into the sky quite effectively, so it's hard to make out the pitch of the roof. If your'e right, it answers another question that's been lurking in the back of my mind, which was, how many Grande Vitesse vans would be included when making up a boat train. In the E.J. Bedford book there is a photo of a Stroudley D2 0-4-2 "Paris" that mentions the "Petite Vitesse" thrice weekly service from Caen (Newhaven to London
  13. Hi, these two photos, which show a type of unidentified 4 wheel van, date from around 1886-1889. The first, taken after the rebuilding of Lewes station in 1888/9 and the second is at Newhaven around 1886. They both appear to be of the Newhaven Boat Train. The low arc roofed van just behind the loco is probably a diag. D47/ van. Can anyone identify these high arc roofed vehicles; they are probably not carriage trucks since they are said to have no end doors. A diagram number, or even a drawing would be helpful. vince
  14. Here's 'Abergavenny' at Newhaven with Stroudley's speed recorder equipment installed. It comprised a continuous belt driven by the single driving wheel that went round the pulley wheel just below the Westinghouse pump. How was it transmitted to the indicator in the cab though?. There's no date given for this photo but there is one of 'Grosvenor', with the same gear, at Lewes station dated 1888.
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