21 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I am afraid life has got in the way this week, what little I have done has not been photographed.  However, a few weeks ago I purchased 'Private Owner Wagons on the Cambrian. 

 

Once started I am a bit of a junkie.  POW sides.  Too late for this Christmas, and my son's are wary of 'dodgy model railway websites' that are 'not secure', and 'do not have encryption'.  (Most do now but one had their fingers burnt with Coopercraft.)  I have a few Slaters kits, 4040, and 4035, which I understand, well people have told me, that actually although they are from diagrams after my period that actually the diagrams just solidified the good practise already happening, but 'just make sure you have grease axel boxes'.  So question, the Slaters/POW sides 4044, four planker, is that suitable for 1895?  I have found some of these that have suitable POs for the Cambrian.  The others I have will have to be repainted.

 

(In my defence I am slowly going through Compounds D299 Appreciation Thread but I am not sure when I move from one page to the next I remember the previous page, although some bits must have stuck.

POWSides are perfectly respectable as an online retailer. The pre-printed kits are the best place to start - you will have to paint solebars to match but they give a Humbrol reference; in some cases you will have to touch up the black ironwork too. 

Slaters Gloucester kits are good for wagons built by that company to the RCH 1887 Specification - in fact they have the earlier style of Gloucester axlebox with a rounded bottom, which is appropriate for wagons built up to the mid-1890s. 

12 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I agree with Mikkel about one side brakes. One issue with the Slaters Gloucester wagons is that there are a number of specific Gloucester features which are distinctive, such as the V hangers.

There are some nice white metal kits for PO dumb buffered wagons though:

Roxey Mouldings – Chatham kits Parry dumb buffered coal wagon ref 4F06

Roxey Mouldings – Chatham kits Stephenson Clarke dumb buffered coal wagon ref 4F07

They are pretty generic so could easily be lettered for the Traeth Mawr Coal and Timber Company etc.

The Slaters Gloucester kits are good not least because the Gloucester photo archive survives, so that builder's wagons are probably the best-documented of the main wagon firms. So plenty of authentic liveries to choose from! It would be reasonably straightforward to modify or replace the V-hanger to represent the style used by other builders. 

In 1895, there would still be large numbers of dumb-buffered PO wagons, especially on a line such as the Cambrian that hadn't the means to pursue a vigorous policy of discouraging them. The Parry wagon is a good start for that; the Stephenson Clarke wagons are to that company's standard design and a bit longer than was usual.

But if you've been reading my wagon building topic, you'll have seen examples of converting Cambrian 4-plank PO wagon kits to dumb buffers (Huntley & Palmers) and more recently, using some Cambrian components for the solebars of dumb buffered wagons with scratch-built bodies. I have the intention of building more such.

I was unsure where to put this post, but as it most relates to rolling stock, this sub-forum seemed the best place; Mod’s please do move if you think differently…

Two warnings in advance; making these stock boxes takes a surprisingly long time (the below is the process I have now evolved after some experimentation):

1.     I now understand the prices asked for the pre-assembled generic boxes, even though they must be made in a factory.

2.     Marking and cutting must be as accurate as possible…inaccuracies get magnified in the final assembled boxes and the lids won’t fit the bases.

By way of background.  I tend to buy loco’s cheaply and repair / improve them (i.e. they are secondhand, often damaged and usually unboxed).  I’ve been storing them in a big plastic crate for a while, but this is really not an ideal situation.  The risk of damage is too great, they get dusty if not wrapped and those locos which are essentially a collection of parts tend to “disperse in the abyss”.

I looked on eBay and discovered some people sell their empty Bachmann or Hornby boxes – but frankly I was surprised (disappointed?) at the prices they can fetch.  Sometimes over £20 each..!  Further searching came up with two sellers who sell purpose-designed loco stock boxes.  The better looking pre-assembled ones are over £4 each; the others (which you fold up yourself) are only around £1.15 each (sold in packs of ten).  However both types store loco’s on their sides, which I really didn’t want (see below).

Casting around, I realised I had quite a lot of 1mm card left over from re-framing some pictures several years ago.  I’d bought 6 big sheets, but only used three (and still had big pieces of those three).  Being tight, I decided to Google for instructions on making “presentation boxes” and found a site where you can enter the sizes you want and it spits out a PDF plan you can print out (http://www.templatemaker.nl/; I used "Box with Lid" right at the bottom of the page).

I decided I wanted my stock boxes to store single loco’s (maximum size being adequate for OO gauge Stanier Pacifics or a Gresley P2) and it was important to me the loco’s were stored resting on their wheels - I’ve found resting on their side can damage valve gear and it must stress the body to chassis attachments.

The internal dimensions of the box I arrived at were 32cm long, 4.5cm wide and 6cm high.  I put those dimensions into the template-maker on the website I’d found, choosing the presentation box with a separate lid design.  Then I printed out the resulting templates (base and lid) – they don’t come out full size incidentally unless you want them printing on multiple sheets of paper (I decided to print each design to fit a single sheet of A4 and use it as a reference for marking out the card using a steel rule and pencil.

After printing the plans out, I did adjust the design a little before starting:

·         The flaps at the end of the sides were extended to almost meet in the centre on my revised design to maximise the adhesion area of the flaps when glued to the end of the box.

·         I decided the lids should come halfway down the sides of the box base (ie. 3cm).

So, in addition to 1mm card, here is what you need:

·         The glue I chose is waterproof Gorilla Glue (a 60ml bottle is probably enough for 50-60 boxes and lids!).  Tesco and Asda sell it for about £3.50 a bottle.  I’d previously decided PVA wouldn’t be strong enough...personal scepticism rather than experience.  Gorilla Glue needs clamping firmly to hold the pieces while it sets and one half of the joint should be damp (not soaking wet…) to maximise curing strength.  It sets like a rock, but if you use too much you will have to clean up when everything has cured as it expands a bit like expanding foam as it sets.  Be aware this is not superglue, but it contains isocyanates and so you need to ensure the glue has really set before using the box - you can safely remove the clamps after 2 hours, but I am not using the boxes for a week after putting them together in case of any superglue-esque hazing of the contents.  Also this glue’s label warns it stains skin – I used disposable gloves when handling pieces of card covered in wet glue.

·         You really do need that long steel rule (and a shorter one is very handy).

·         I used a Stanley knife and changed the blades frequently (the cutting needs to be sharp and dead accurate - I used at least 5 blades making 13 boxes, 3 good lids (and several “test” lids that failed the cut).

·         A huge A2 self-healing cutting mat is definitely recommended -  £8 from The Works last time I looked.

·         The pieces of wood are to protect the card and spread the clamping load while the glue cures.  Random off-cuts are fine, but do trim them to about the right size.

·         I’d recommend using mini F clamps for this job incidentally – old clothes pegs won’t do.  Prices vary wildly, but I already had some…the cheap ones would do fine, but they are pretty horrible (get half decent ones if you’re going to do any woodworking another day).

·         The grease-proof paper is to stop the wood sticking to the box (Gorilla Glue will stick the grease-proof paper, but won’t soak through it).

·         The pizza cutter is for “pressing” the fold lines (you do not want to cut them, hence I didn’t get one of those crafting rotary cutters).  I found I had to tighten the rivet holding the cutting wheel to the handle to ensure it didn’t wander everywhere.  I used a vice and clamped the rivet so tight the pizza cutting wheel only turned freely after I oiled it; but it doesn’t wander everywhere now!

·         The big steel set-square helped marking up when I wasn’t sure if an edge was perpendicular and also help fold up the box neatly.

·         I also bought some self-adhesive plastic sheet (Fablon “Chalkboard” – ref FAB10008) which can be had for about £6 a roll if you shop around – surprisingly I found Hobbycraft are currently cheaper than the big DIY chains.  You can probably find equally good alternatives – I liked the look and could get hold of the Fablon stuff quickly, so that’s the principle reason I chose it.  As you will see, I use this to cover the boxes - very tricky to do neatly (no in-progress photo's as you need three pairs of hands!), but once you get the hang of it, they can look almost professional..!

Because I was covering the boxes with the self-adhesive plastic sheet, I anticipated the lids may not fit if built strictly to plan, correctly as it turned out.  So I made a batch of identical box bases, covered several with the plastic sheet and then measured their outside length and width before adjusting the lid’s plan to suit.  I actually had to make three "prototype" lids before I got it right (a snug fit, but not so snug it was too tight).  Keep a record of your changes, so you can replicate them once you find a decent fit.

Step 1:  download, print and adjust the plan

Step 2:  mark out the card accurately; try to maximise the number of boxes or lids per sheet - you’ll be surprised how much card you use – use leftovers where possible when “prototyping” the lids

Step 3: cut out the card accurately (notice the triangular fillets removed from the bottom of each end flap)

Step 4: accurately use the pizza cutter to roll along the fold lines firmly (two firm passes at least and be careful as the pizza cutter definitely wants to wander)

Step 5: fold the box or lid up – the set square and ruler definitely aid this (doing it by hand produces terrible results).  The 1mm card will start to split so fold no more than about 130 degrees (don’t worry, the Fablon will hide and reinforce the folds)

Step 6: glue up the ends (too messy for photo's).  If using Gorilla Glue, apply glue to one side and spread with your finger - damp the other with water.  Use a disposable glove (if you wipe the glue off the glove with a piece of kitchen towel you can reuse the glove several times)

Step 7: put greaseproof paper between the wood and the card and clamp securely while the glue sets (adjust everything before final tightening of the clamps) - having wood pieces cut to the same size as the inside width of the box helps a lot, but you’ll develop a knack after the second or third attempt).

Step 8: remove clamps after a minimum of two hours.  Check your loco’s fit (I plan to arrange bubble-wrap like the photo to make them easier to remove  CORRECTION - see bubble-wrap warning in the replies below).

Step 9: once everything has cured for 24 hours, wrap in the self-adhesive plastic sheet (surprisingly fiddly…but again you develop the knack).  The self-adhesive backing doesn’t really set for a while, so if you are careful you can restart any total disasters.  A roll (45cm x 1.5m) doesn’t go far, so try not to have too much wastage

Once you’ve made the boxes, make the lids following exactly the same process.  Bear in mind you’ll have to add about 2-3mm to the length and 1-2 mm to the width in the plan – experimenting is necessary.

Ta da….custom stock boxes..!

Just don’t think you’ll get rich making these manually and then selling them to other modellers…it’s a slow process limited by the number of F-clamps you have.  I can glue up three bases or lids at once, as I have six mini F clamps.  For those weighing up the potential costs, one piece of A1 card (circa £3 I think) makes 10 lids or 6 bases based on dimensions I used.

Plasticbasher