highpeakman

Thanks. Fascinating and interesting reading.

OK. Thanks for the suggestion. Any ideas of the type of traffic it might have been? Presumably the containers would need to be craned off the wagons onto the ships or did loaded Conflats actually travel on the ferries? There appears to some form of logo on the container. Interested to know what that might be.

I noticed a picture on a well known social media site which showed some Conflats and containers in the background. Just wondered if anyone else knows what type of container they are please? It is at Redhill Shed taken on Sept 6th 1964. (The loco to be seen in part is a B1 which, I understand, visited Redhill with a pigeon special but needed some work before returning home). I have looked around the web and have found pictures and drawings of many types of container but haven't yet found anything that looks quite like these. I have cropped the picture to show just the wagons as I hope that does not infringe any copyright. The complete picture is part of the Len Ince Collection with Copyright by Phantasrail Galleries.

According to the Book of the Ivatt Class 2 it was still in lined green in 1967. There is a photo of it at Manchester Victoria in March 67 which says there are traces of lined green - but it is really difficult to tell under the grime.

Appreciate your comments and certainly agree with the last! This query has got far more complicated than I thought it would initially! As I mention above, I am not a pedantic modeller so will probably go forward using modeller's licence and hope it will be part of the "flavour" of where i am modelling.

I do agree with you but can only look at and consider such "evidence". I do mention in previous text above that I have realised these locos came later to Buxton late in the day and that, while I like things to be reasonably accurate (hence this enquiry), I am not pedantic about such things and will probably use my modelling licence to apply rule 1 as you suggest. My modelling is more about giving an impression or flavour of a place rather than accuracy. My layout is a sort of loose amalgam of the C&HPR, Wirksworth and Peak Forest which allows me to run the BR and ex LMS locos I remember from my (long ago) childhood when I lived in Derby and frequently visited the Peak District. Thanks for your assistance.

Here is pic. https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1035485212/hf41537ce#hb6112fd1 It looks unlined in 1964.

That's really helpful information. Thank you.

This is the Buxton pic of 46505. https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p1035485212/hC1919C79#hc1919c79 Green or Black?

Good news! Just found a clear picture of 46505 at Buxton and it is unlined. Bad news! Only slight issue is that it moved to Buxton in May 1967 and was scrapped in June 1967! Of course this was a Swindon built loco. Would it still have been in unlined green in 1967? Unlikely I suspect. It had been lined in 1963 though (Green?). This is a minefield!

That's very helpful. Thank you. Looking through, at the numbers above though, the locos I am interested in are either still lined at the time of photograph or it is not possible to tell. I am researching various photo sources (the more the merrier!) but it takes time. I had been hoping someone would know but it seems to be one of those things that people don't recall (I certainly don't remember) and it's not something that got recorded or noted much.

Some further research, by no means complete yet, indicates that these locos were not allocated to Buxton (my area of interest) until 63 to 66 - perhaps a little later than I had hoped but rule 1 comes into play here! That, of course, does not preclude other locos of the same type working in the area. Allocated locos appear to be 46401 (1966-67), 46402 (65-67), 46465 (62-67), 46480 (62-67), and 46484 (65-67). As I say, more work to be done but Thanks to all contributing. I do try to make the locos I run authentic for the era and area I model but I am also pragmatic about it and I am happy to give some licence to that if the layout gives the right "flavour" or atmosphere so dates are, for me, flexible - to a point.

Locos 46503 to 46527 were the Swindon built examples. They were all painted lined black initially but some locos were later painted green at Swindon. At present I do know which were changed or when but, again, perhaps allocations might help. I am currently working through pictures and allocations. I have a clear pictures (from rail on line) of 46441 (at Lancaster Green Ayre) in 1964 as unlined and therefore, presumably, black. I am sure there are many others.

You raised an interesting question. Thanks. I think some research into where locos were based may give some guidance on that (perhaps). That picture is Birkenhead and, without the full loco number, it could, I suppose, have been one of the western green ones?

Thanks for the information. Often a bit of a problem with Heritage Railways in knowing what era the livery they use is based on. Having said that I am happy to accept your comment that it is in the same livery as when withdrawn. Thanks.

Good point. Thanks. As my layout is based on late 50s/early 60s would the livery still be the same then I wonder?

Thanks very much. I did have a quick look through the rail on line pics but, obviously didn't spend enough time on it. Must confess that I was surprised by the date on that one as I have read that all were lined in BR days at first and so suspected that lining may have been lost on some towards the later days of steam to cut down on maintenance costs but it appears that some were not lined out at all perhaps. Appreciate your help.

Thank you. That's pretty clear!

I have just acquired the Bachmann model of the Ivatt Class 2 MT Mogul but in LMS livery. I am now in the process of changing that to BR livery which was lined Black (apart from the few in lined green). My question is whether, in later years, any of them ran in plain (unlined) black? I have The Book of the Class 2 Ivatts on order but have not received it yet. I have have looked at many pictures, both online and in my own collection of books, but, so far, I cannot determine the answer. There are many clear pictures of lined locos well into the 60s but in many other pictures it is really difficult to tell if some locos are unlined or just very dirty indeed. However in some pictures the locos do seem relatively clean but I cannot make out any lining. That may just be a lighting issue on those pictures perhaps? I am just about to start painting/detailing the loco so would appreciate it if someone can give any guidance on this please. Honest answer is that I would prefer not to line it if I don't have to but will do if needed (Or maybe some very heavy weathering! ) This is for a loco that would have operated around Buxton in late 50s early, 60s.

The only other USB devices plugged into this PC are the mouse module and a WiFi module (Faster than the built in WiFi). My reply to Crosland above may explain a little of how I use this PC and the fact that it does not do many other tasks. The Sprog is now talking and working normally again although essentially nothing in settings, or plug ins or connections have really changed. I understand what you suggest and I agree that the problem is caused by some conflict/issue like this but I haven't been able to identify it yet. I did look around Device Manager but couldn't see anything that might obviously cause any issue. In this case it is actually using COM4. Thank you very much for your suggestions and help, it is appreciated.

Thank you for responding. Initially it was plugged into the same USB port that has always been used. The cable from the Sprog is left in place all the time and is lightly fixed on one side of the desk where the PC sits. There is only one port on that side of the PC so it is always that one. The cable is only connected when required. The laptop used is not my main PC and is not used a great deal so has little in the way of additional connections or software. I use this set up on a test bench rolling road so that I can test, set up and modify locos. Therefore it does not get used every day (or even every week sometimes). For the last three years I have turned on the Sprog, plugged the USB cable in to the laptop, powered up JMRI and it has worked without issue regardless of anything else the laptop has done in the meantime. This morning it didn't. Same as 3 years ago. Lots of faffing around and trying different things but actually altering nothing. Now it's working again! I think it is most likely a Windows issue of some sort but I cannot see what it is. However, when I first discovered the problem I did try connecting via different ports but that made no difference so I reverted to the one which i have always used. Note that I always reboot (full power off) when anything significant is changed. I had a long career in electronics and, although I am not a qualified Engineer and know little about programming (particularly DCC), I do try to be very methodical in my approach which often solves many similar problems with computers, etc. Suggestions are always welcome so Thank you for your comments.

Nigel. Thank you very much for your quick response. I have just used Device Manager as you suggest and it referred to COM4. Using Edit/Preferences/Connections I changed the port back to COM4 (It had originally been on this port, and not working, but I had changed it to COM3 to see if that would work). I then saved that setting. There was no immediate alteration to the Sprog so I turned the Sprog off, turned the laptop off (complete power down), turned the Sprog back on and then restarted the PC and JMRI. As I have done several times previously. No difference. I then went to the "Programmer" and asked for the Sprog firmware version. Previously today it returned "Timed out" but I noticed this time it had returned Sprog II v3 v3.1! It was talking finally. I tried to identify the loco on the test track and that failed but I noticed that now the power button was "active" so I turned on power, picked the loco from the roster, turned on the throttle and the loco started running. So now, again, everything appears to be working normally. It is very similar to last time (3 years ago) in that I am unable to explain exactly what changed to stop it working or that would allow it to work again. Yes, I changed the COM port as you suggested, but it had previously been on that port. Nothing else, that I can see, is different. I do agree that it is something to do with the drivers, etc on Windows. I had changed the USB cable so I don't think it was that. Similarly I never did get to the bottom of why it started working again last time. I am as baffled as I was before. I really do appreciate your response and help though, Thank you.

I am resurrecting this thread because I have just experienced exactly the same fault again, nearly 3 years on! I have been happily using my Sprog II v3 and JMRI (4.14) for all of this time without any further issues at all. However this morning I fired up the Sprog and Laptop but can't get the PC to talk to the Sprog once again. Nothing in the set up has changed since it was last used. [Apart from any Windows 10 updates] I am getting "No Operations Mode Programmer Available" message and no volts measured out of the Sprog. I initially checked and then replaced all interconnecting cables and checked that correct power is getting to the Sprog. Both lights are continuous red. Did lots of restarts/reboots. No change. Tried changing COM ports from 4 to 3 - No difference. I checked back to this thread above and decided to update JMRI hoping that might cure the problem so I am now using JMRI 4.24 and the latest Java. Further reboots, etc. of Laptop and Sprog. Problem is still the same as described initially. Checking "Preferences/Defaults" in JMRI that shows, that for the Sprog, the Throttles, Power control and Service Programmer are all "ticked" (but not Ops mode Programmer or Command Station or Consists). "Internal" shows nothing ticked. I am unable to change/modify any of these. That seems odd but I guess is down to lack of communication between Sprog and JMRI?. [Using Windows 10 Pro and an i5 HP Laptop]. Has anyone any suggestions or ideas please? Thanks in advance.

OK. I wasn't aware of it being classed as a diversionary route. Thanks for the info.

That's a really great set of photos that I haven't seen before. Thank you for posting that. I can actually remember seeing Tissington Station and some of the others on that route. Should have taken more notice but I was very young and could not afford film anyway.