6029 King Stephen

After a weekend away, I am keen to get going on the layout and get something moving in the not too distant future. Last night I cut off the waste paper from the Templot track plan and try to skew the plan slightly to make better use of the space. The areas that I want to create depth are the viaduct at the left, the station approach that comes up under the first arch of the viaduct, the goods yard with the raised street behind that will go against the backscene and the under and over bridges that are at the right hand (Lydford) end. I also trimmed the template for the three road (in each direction) hidden sidings and joined these together to work out the length. The template produced an 8’ long hidden sidings area but I will increase this to 12’. Some tests with a loco and some coaches determined that the middle siding would easily accommodate two six-coach trains with a loco. With an enlarged storage area, this will permit 9 x six-coach trains in each direction. Although I don’t have this amount of stock at the moment, I imagine that in the years ahead, I might run out of capacity - here’s hoping! I marked the width for the hidden siding tracks and will cut sufficient strips for that. My plan is to lay the foam, point work and some track plus drill the holes for point motors and wire the initial three turnout section of the hidden sidings over the next two days and then continue through the hidden sidings and around to the scenic section during subsequent days. Here are some photos from last night.

No progress made during the bank holiday weekend but having now exchanged my single slip for a double and part exchanging the last of my OO gauge for some more N gauge items, I am keen to get on with forming the fiddle yard which will provide an indication of the track height on the scenic part, this being a 1 in 75 lower than the fiddle yard at each end. First I have to clear the stuff that I have been dumping on the layout boards.... Regards, Steve

Rather surprisingly, Tavistock actually had two stations; one on the LSWR mainline to Plymouth and one on the GWR Plymouth to Launceston branchline. The LSWR station was above the town, hence the viaduct and the GWR station was on the other side of the town near the cattle market. What I noticed immediately when I first built the layout plan of Tavistock North (the post-nationalisation name for the old LSWR station) was the limited lengths of the kickback sidings at the Lydford end of the goods yard. The rearmost siding would only be able to receive 1 or 2 wagons plus the tank loco during shunting, due to the limited space on the kick back. However, the siding itself is quite long. To ensure access to any derailed stock in the fiddle yard, I am thinking of having a gap between the back of the backscene and the fiddle yard tracks - wide enough to allow my head to see and an arm/hand in to retrieve any stock. During this bank holiday weekend I am hoping to make a start on the 6-road fiddleyard including cutting of the ply track bed, closed cell foam underlay and wiring up the point motors. Once I have done this, I should be able to determine the heights of the track beds around the front of the layout. I have already bought all the trackwork for the scenic part of the layout, with the exception of the double slip to replace the single slip that I had bought. I might have to buy extra lengths of track to complete the fiddle yard tracks. Regards, Steve

On the subject of reaching the fiddle yard, I am going to use a step ladder to provide greater reach. Using the L-Girder method, I will cut the trackbed to suit the formation, solder wires to each section of track, add point motors and 3mm closed cell foam and the attach to the risers using cleats. The layout will be DCC using the Gaugemaster Prodigy 2 control system. Bus wires will run the length of the layout to which the dropper wires will be soldered. The legs of each board are 43” high, plus the 18mm L-Girder, 150mm viaduct height, 12mm trackbed thickness and 3mm closed cell foam underlay thickness. This should allow trains running at a decent height. I will use modeller’s licence as far as stock goes and change some of the infrastructure to suit. I will assume that Meldon viaduct was replaced with a stone viaduct similar to Sourton/Lake viaduct. As the alternative route for the GWR as well as SR mainline, this will permit me to run my Merchant Navy, King class, Britannia and Western locos. All are liveried as early BR so I am thinking of a broad timescale of 1948-1965 or possibly a preserved line. Progress is likely to be slow as I am also interested in building plastic kits and have over 100 kits in my “stash” plus white metal bus kits. Regards, Steve

Hi, Well I have now built the L-Girder framework in the shed. The length is 16’ and the width nearest the camera, i.e. at the door end is 42” wide and at the other end, 35”. Although it would appear that I may not have made the best use of the space, it was reading a magazine article where someone building a layout in N had given himself more width to allow greater depth to the scenery. I decided to follow the same principle to allow a greater feeling of the railway in the landscape, something more achievable in N. Next job is sorting the layout template to suit the board joins and set the height of the station and goods yard, using the viaduct height as the datum. The track will go up an incline of 1 in 75 at each end to the fiddle yard. I have decided to use Peco 3rd and 4th radii curves at each end as it is difficult to curve flexi into a tight curve. Hopefully by creating a transition curve, the Peco set track curves will be hidden from view. If you have a double slip that you would swap for my single slip, I would be interested, Joseph. Regards, Steve

OK, I have now made a start. I have cut down the Templot templates and sellotaped the sheets together. As I am using Peco track, the plan is only a guide as I will not be handbuilding the track. I have laid them on my four, 4’x2’ 12mm ply sheets to get an idea of size. Using Peco set track 3rd and 4th radius curves at each end, with a transition formed with the Streamline flexi, I will need an extra 4” at each end, so I will call it 17’ in length overall. For width, at the Plymouth end 33” will be sufficient but at the Lydford end it will be 42” wide. However, I did’t try skewing the plan on the boards to enable the Lydford end to be within the 33” width. The photos show the templot plan laid on the boards. The Lydford end is nearest to the camera in pictures 2&3. I have also built all the “L”s for the framework and will build the Lydford end board first. I will take a picture of that, hopefully tomorrow afternoon, depending on progress. No idea why it has posted the same text twice.... Regards, Steve

OK, I have now made a start. I have cut down the Templot templates and sellotaped the sheets together. As I am using Peco track, the plan is only a guide as I will not be handbuilding the track. I have laid them on my four, 4’x2’ 12mm ply sheets to get an idea of size. Using Peco set track 3rd and 4th radius curves at each end, with a transition formed with the Streamline flexi, I will need an extra 4” at each end, so I will call it 17’ in length overall. For width, at the Plymouth end 33” will be sufficient but at the Lydford end it will be 42” wide. However, I did’t try skewing the plan on the boards to enable the Lydford end to be within the 33” width. The photos show the templot plan laid on the boards. The Lydford end is nearest to the camera. I have also built all the “L”s for the framework and will build the Lydford end board first. I will take a picture of that, hopefully tomorrow afternoon, depending on progress. Regards, Steve

A view of Tavistock viaduct in early June 2018. A test to see how easy it was to load a photo...! Regards, Steve

Hi, I tried to download the map from the NLS through Templot2 but it would not work for me. I have reverted to my original plan using Templot1 and have reprinted the layout plan with the prototypical kink as the line left the station, heading towards Lydford. I have cut the templates down and have joined some of them together. The overall layout dimensions I am working to are 16' long by 33" wide. This should allow me to get the viaduct, station and goods yard to prototypical length. I had bought a single slip but will be replacing this with the correct double slip. I have bought the hardwood ply and make a start on assembling the frames using the L-Girder system (5.5" wide 18mm ply strips screwed with pocket hole screws to form the L) with cross members of 2"x1" timber that will also be used to form the uprights and cleats. The track bed is 12mm ply which will be covered with 3mm closed cell foam (Hobby Holidays). I found that using 6mm ply on the previous attempt with the 3mm foam left a lot of the Peco turnout operating wire poking through the tie bar that was difficult to shorten without damaging the point. This time I will be using a scrap piece of 12mm ply with 3mm foam glued on and then push the operating wire through this and the tie bar and then mark how much is needed to be removed. I will then remove this amount from the turnout motor before installing them to make life easier for me. I am on leave all next week, so I hope to start making some rapid progress on the layout to at least get the hidden 6 road fiddle yard in place. I will take some pictures and post them to provide the necessary incentive to make further progress. Regards, Steve

If you live in the West Country or visit there on holidays etc, then a visit to Pecorama in Beer, near Seaton, Devon is a good place to see Peco built layouts in various locations including a shed. They also have a shop to get advice and buy the Peco products you have just seen used on their layouts. There is also a model railway with shop in Mevagissey, Cornwall and there used to be one at the Trago Mills site near Newton Abbott in Devon (best check before travelling!). Regards, Steve

Hi, I believe that the Lilliput body shell is the same as used by Bachmann with a newer chassis. If that is the case, then you may be able to get a second hand Silver Link Bachman body in the three shades of grey that the four initial A4s came in. This livery was to match the Silver Jubilee train that had been introduced on the LNER in 1935. Whether it is sacrilege to repaint a Lilliput item, I don't know. If you are up to the challenge and your repaint is as good as a Bachmann A4, then go for it - it may affect its resale value on the collectors market though. Better to sell it and buy the Bachmann or later loco drive Hornby product. If you can afford it, there is also the option of the Dapol £300+ super-detailed item.... Regards, Steve

I suggest that you need to look in Volume 2 of An Historical Survey of Selected LMS Stations Layouts and Illustrations by R Preston Hendry & R Powell Hendry. I searched for this title on eBay and found both volumes with the rear (that lists the stations therein) of Volume 1 and Stoke on Trent is not listed. Found Volume 2 on eBay and Amazon but no contents listed and the second volume costs a lot more than the first volume for some reason. I find these books invaluable for layout plans and have all 4 volumes for Great Western, the Southern Railway volume and the S&D volume in case anyone is looking for layout plans for any of these. Regards, Steve

Hi, My advice to you would be to get hold of a Hornby or PECO track plans book and select a layout that suits you for the size that you want, that will allow the rolling stock you are interested in, to run on it. A track plan can always be enlarged but it is not always feasible to reduce them. The advantage of a track plans book is that it will list all the track items and definitely in the case of Hornby, all the electrical items and controllers that you will need to complete the layout. When starting out, it is all too easy to buy items because they are cheap or colourful that later you decide are not appropriate to the layout you decide upon or the region/period that interests you. Whilst new items are (very) expensive, they do not generally retain any resale value so it is important not to waste money. I would also recommend that you purchase one of the periodicals; Railway Modeller, Hornby Magazine, Model Rail or British Railway Modelling as not only do they contain articles about built layouts (for inspiration) but also usually have articles aimed at newcomers. They also have plenty of advertisers for you to purchase items from. A few catalogues are also a good idea to give you an example of what is available and you can check the prices in your magazine. You mention that the layout is for you and your son. Depending on the age of your son and what other interests he may have, you could be the only one interested in trains after a period of time. If your son is young and unable to appreciate the cost and fragility of a brand new, highly detailed loco that has cost you over £120, then the Hornby Railroad range could suit you. Generally speaking, the Railroad range consists of older Hornby models that have been revamped (improved?) with more modern chassis - many of the original Hornby steam locos from the '80's and '90's had tender drive mechanisms (avoid at all costs) and have been replaced with loco drive chassis and now form part of the Railroad range. If you have witnessed a tender drive loco that is slipping with a full load and the loco valve gear is not moving but the tender wheels are turning or worse still, your loco is running round your layout with the valve gear jammed, you will appreciate how awful Hornby tender drives are. Once you have selected a layout plan that suits you and your son, have bought all the tracks and accessories to run it and have bought the rolling stock that suits your interests and pocket, then you will be able to progress to the next step of building scenery etc. Once you have gained further experience and skills you will have the confidence to try out some of the projects in your magazines and step up to more challenging layout plans that use flexible track, scale length point work to accommodate your growing collection of rolling stock. Above all else, remember it is a hobby and one that can offer a huge range of skills and experience whilst at the same time, being fun! Good luck, Steve

Hi, I have also done this conversion using the Airfix Biggin Hill loco body fitted to a Triang Winston Churchill that had a smoke unit fitted. There was no problem securing the body to the chassis because, if I remember correctly, on the Triang WC there was a screw that went through from the top above the buffer beam in to the chassis. The cab end of the body has a piece that slots into the rear of the chassis. I also used the Airfix tender but fitted with metal wheels and bearings and made a goalpost from wire for the front of the tender to couple on to the rear bogie of the loco. I painted the loco in Malachite green and used an HMRS sheet for the Bulleid loco and tender lining. In fact, I still have part of this sheet of stripes if you want it. The Airfix body length was the same as the Triang one. I have a Dapol City of Truro kit and intend to use a Hornby Polly chassis to motorise it - I have an old Railway Modeller article explaining how to do it. You may also be able to get hold of a Kemilway chassis for your BoB project or a Branchlines kit if you want to use Romfords etc. Regards, Steve

Following discussion in another thread, I have decided to use the L-Girder and cookie cutter system for my Tavistock layout. The previous attempt was 12' long but the revised version will be 16' as I now have an 18' x 10' shed to accommodate it. The width will increase slightly from 30" to 32" with the possibility of the curves at the end widening to 36". I might also explore the possibility of making one end into a small L shape to gain an extra 4'. So far I have reprinted the Tempot layout plan but after obtaining a 1906 edition Ordnance Survey map of Tavistock and photocopying and enlarging the railway onto A3 sheets, I am tempted to redo the Templot plan to ensure that the plan is correct. The scenic boundaries for the layout will be an overbridge to the left of the viaduct and an overbridge to the right hand side after it has gone up the 1 in 75 gradient and over an underbridge. If I extend the layout into an L and gain 4', then the right hand boundary will extend to the next overbridge. I have the updated Okehampton Line Irwell Press book and am fortunate that this has many more photos of Tavistock North than the first edition, including plans of the viaduct and platform elevation of the station building. I have discovered some new photos on the internet, including colour shots of the signal box and line running Eastwards, verifying that there is a double slip rather than the single slip that I bought. I will have to change that. I have decided to change the L-Girder construction as 6x1 and 4x1 timber with 2x1 cross members with 2x1 uprights and 1x1 cleats will produce something that is too heavy. Instead, I am going to use lengths of 18mm ply 6" and 4" wide to create the L-Girder and then 4" high by 32" wide lengths of 18mm ply to form the cross members, all screwed together using Kreg pocket hole screws system. Uprights will also use the same 18mm ply as will the cleats. The track bed will be 9mm ply covered with 3mm closed cell foam. I am amazed at how expensive ply is in the UK. You have to sell and arm and a leg to get marine ply (£64 for 18mm 8'x4' sheet) and even hardwood ply varies between £34-£40 per sheet. I will be opting for 18mm hardwood ply from B&Q at £34 with free cutting - I went to buy it on Wednesday but they had run out! I will probably buy my 9mm ply from my local timber seller as they seem to be the only ones that will sell an 8'x4' sheet. Delivery might be the killer or the £1 per cut! In the meantime, I am going to make a scale plan of the layout using the enlargements of the OS map, with cardboard and wooden buildings so that I can work out where the board joins will be. Once construction proper begins, I will take and post some photos. Until then, the research continues.... Regards, Steve

Have you considered selling your OO and changing to N gauge? You would then effectively have the same space as 16’ x 16’ in OO. I am sure that all the OO gauge diesels that you have are available in N. I have had the same problem as you in the past - where you have a certain number of points already and are then looking for a layout plan that will match the track pieces that you already have. I appreciate that you have stated that you are starting with a clean slate, so this might not be applicable. Have you looked in track plan books for inspiration? Regards, Steve

Thanks for all replies and advice. I think I will be going down the L-Girder route. Regards, Steve

As some may know, if you have read my recently restarted thread, I am looking to build an N gauge layout based on Tavistock North. I had previously attempted to build the layout using 18mm ply that was 175mm high by 30" wide for the crossmembers and 100mm by 48" for the lengthways member. The 175mm was arrived at because I was allowing 100mm to allow the use of Tortoise point motors plus the 75mm height of the viaduct that is located at the west end of the station. I got as far as laying an underlay of 3mm closed cell foam and pinning the track down on the scenic section and getting almost the whole way through the hidden fiddleyard when I had to return to the UK and there was an issue with having anything wooden, fumigated and this was going to cost too much. I had also had to compromise on the track layout because when I built the first attempt, the mainline snakes from the front edge of the layout towards the centre and ascends an incline of 1 in 75. This is OK because the west end also inclines at 1 in 75. The problem was that with the east end line being about halfway across the board, there was insufficient space to have a reverse curve to the fiddleyard. For the Mk2 version, I got rid of the curve and so the layout became the more traditional oval circuit. For the current, Mk3 version, I am spending more time on the planning. I have printed off the Templot plan and will be taping it together. I will then buy a couple of sheets of 6mm ply and lay the plan on this and mark the outline. I will then cut the ply (like a cookie cut trackbed) and have that set on risers to set the trackbed at the 75mm height of the viaduct and add extra to account for the inclines at each end. My question is, which method of baseboard construction do you think would suit my layout plan best? I have narrowed it down to either the plywood box section, with or without 50x25mm spacer blocks, with 50x25mm risers and 25x25mm cleats to support the trackbed or the L-Girder system with 50x25mm cross members and 25x25mm cleats. I am looking to stick to the prototypical plan that includes the curved inclined mainline but increase the width of the layout, where necessary, from 30" to 42" (or its metric equivalent). Whereas for Mk1 and Mk2 the total length was 12', I have been able to extend the Mk3 version to 15'. I am also using Peco under baseboard point motors and sticking with the 3mm foam between trackbed and track. I am leaning toward the L-Girder as it seems to offer the great flexibility. The layout is for personal use and will not be exhibited. I have built work bench that is 15' long x 32" wide that will double as the support for the layout, when in use and for use with my woodworking tools when doing any projects. Thanks, Steve

Now that we have returned to the UK for the next three years at least and being the proud owner of a new 18'x10' shed (courtesy of my wife!) I have decided to resurrect my Tavistock North layout in N gauge. The new layout will be 15' long x 30" which hopefully will allow me to model the viaduct, station and goods yard plus have 1 in 75 inclines at each end, rising about an inch to the 6 road fiddle yard. I was thinking of using the L-girder system for the frame but as I will want the layout to be portable, I have decided upon using 12mm ply box sections with risers to support the track bed which will be roughly 50mm above the box frame. The frame of the layout will be 100mm deep with the riser 50 mm above that, with the exception of where the viaduct will be sited where the frame will be 75mm high, to allow the 75mm height of the viaduct. the track bed will be cut from 6mm ply using the cookie cutter method as this will allow the smoothest possible change from level track level to the 1 in 75 incline up to the fiddle yard. Each board will be approximately 42" x 30" - I will have to convert the dimensions into metric to make it easier to order the ply boards and arrange the cuts. Mixing imperial and metric leads to confusion - time to join the 21st century! I have printed the Templot plan onto A4 sheets of paper and will be cutting and sticking them together over the next few days. With the full size plan, I will cut around it to provide a template for cutting the 6mm ply and be able to decide where I need risers, their width and how many. I will use 50mm x 25mm timber to make the risers for the track bed. So far I have built a workbench 10' long and have the 5' extension ready to be attached to that which will form the underpinnings for the framework. The idea behind having a workbench to support the layout is that I can remove the layout and use the bench for woodworking projects or to support my planned "other layout", a OO gauge branch line. I will post pictures on this thread, once I get started on the construction of the layout. The updated Irwell Press book on the Okehampton line has many additional photos of Tavistock and even an engineer's plan of the station building, admittedly only one elevation and the layout of the ground floor but it is still helpful. To get something going as soon as possible, the plan is to use proprietary buildings to start off with and then to replace them with more accurate scratch built buildings at a later date. The viaduct will be the first structure that will need scratch building with a simple wooden frame of the track bed and the piers to be constructed in the first instance. I already have the cardboard and have drawings of the viaduct to use. The plan is to make sure the piers are in the right place first and then to cover this with a cardboard outer skin - the viaduct will have to be removable or have a split in the middle arch which is wider than the others, for dismantling. Regards, Steve

I have further considered the suggestion that I made, having found the turning mechanism from an old Ikea Lazy Susan. The mechanism consists of two metal plates, around 4" square that are connected together with ball bearings. My thought now is to attempt what I suggested using a piece of melamine faced chipboard that I have available. Around the edge of the chipboard base I will glue a thin strip of card to represent the turntable pit wall and cut the outer part of the circle to form a square to make it easier to install the turntable into a layout. I will try to remember to take some pictures when I make a start, so that if it is successful, I can post details. Regards, Steve

Why not build the Airfix/Dapol turntable but fix it solid. Then mount that on a round or square piece of ply so that when you turn the piece of ply, that turns beneath any lineside scenery, the whole turntable assembly including your loco turns as well. I have the same conundrum myself and was thinking to use a length of C&L rail to form the rail for the turntable and replace the plastic kit wheels with N gauge wagon wheels.... Regards, Steve

Not sure if it counts as a bargain but Asda Sittingbourne have a basic trainset with GWR 101 0-4-0 loco and three wagons plus track and controller on roll back to £40. It had started at £120 and was then rolled back to £60 and now to £40. I think I will wait until 27 December when I expect it will be sub £40 - I can then sell off the parts individually on eBay for a huge profit... Regards, Steve

Thanks for letting me know! I have some Slater's OO underframe kits unopened that I probably won't get around to building that I will stick on eBay in the next few days. I also have some of their wagon kits in various states of completion that I might as well stick on too..... Regards, Steve

I seem to remember that Marc Models also produced kits for the LMS Coronation Scot train and that they had a brass roof. Steve

I think I will try using my temperature controlled soldering iron on some of the joints to determine what kind of solder has been used. I will start at the setting for white metal and move up. Obviously I will be very careful when approaching the higher setting for ordinary solder. If it proves to be ordinary solder, the I will sell it on eBay when I return to U.K. At the end of August. Regards, Steve