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Andy Y

Locomotion Models announce D8000 and King George V models

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Guest spet0114

If you look at their advert that is not the case.  There are and have been Hornby Exclusive models from the NRM but they have never had anything sold out of Shildon under the NCIM brand, all models thus branded so far have been made by Bachmann with Rapido's first rapidly approaching.

Except that if you go to Locomotion's website, click on the 'National Collection in Miniature' link, you'll find R3081 grinning cheekily at you from among the Bachmann and Rapido products.  As I mentioned before, until recently the NCIM concept was a bit vague - there was no distinct 'NCIM' branding on any of the recent Bachmann releases, prior to the C1 and the new NCIM logo is getting it's first airing only now.  In short R3080 and R3081 have as much NCIM credential as any of the recent Bachmann stuff.

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Simon's helped out with a little more information regarding pricing and product numbers.

 

 

32-027NRM    BR Class 20 No. D8000                                 £109.95

 

TBA                  BR Class 20 No. D8000 w/sound                 £209.95

 

R3377             BR 6000 Class ‘King George V’                    £159.99

 

NB: All with exWorks gloss finish.

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That's one expensive sound decoder!

 

The price has been amended, apologies for the error.

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Superfluous quoting edited down.

 

I might want that GWR King

Edited by Andy Y

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That would be in 3.5mm then?

 

Luke

Nah. UK locomotives look too puny in HO alongside North American steam.

Edited by autocoach

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The timing of the release of D8000 seems a bit strange. Surely it might have had more significance if the model was introduced in June 2017..........

On current gestation, by the time Bachmann get around to it, it will be. :D

Edited by leopardml2341

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Guest spet0114

Do the photos of D8000 show the final model or a test sample?   I can't quite believe those windscreen wipers and buffers are the finished item, a great shame if they are (IMO) as the rest of the model looks superb.

 

Cheers
Adrian

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£159 Hornby R3330 - Early BR livery, with brass axle bearings ? - Early BR livery Sprung buffers ! :-)

£169 Hattons HK15 - Early BR livery  

£199 STEAM - (with brass bell, Bristolian headboard etc) - Early BR livery

£??? Locomotion Models - "gloss paint" - Early BR livery

Simon's helped out with a little more information regarding pricing and product numbers.

R3377 BR 6000 Class ‘King George V’ £159.99

 

Not much of a 'museum premium' price included there. I find that pricing decision interesting.

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Hornby have (to my reckoning) produced four prior NRM exclusives, the last three of which may reasonably be considered part of the 'NCIM' brand. I refer to the two versions of Scotsman (R3079 and R3080, I think) and the version of Hamilton in streamlined form (can't remember R-number). At least one of these is still listed on the Locomotion website under the 'NCIM' section. Bear in mind that the 'NCIM' brand was a bit ill-defined until fairly recently, it certainly didn't have it's own logo or artwork.

(My emphasis)  I think a meaningful distinction can be drawn.

 

If you look at their advert that is not the case.  There are and have been Hornby Exclusive models from the NRM but they have never had anything sold out of Shildon under the NCIM brand, all models thus branded so far have been made by Bachmann with Rapido's first rapidly approaching.

Yes, the "National Collection in Miniature" brand is new and a bit different from what previously were "NRM exclusives" like the Bachmann City of Truro and Midland Compound and the Hornby Flying Scotsman.

 

Except that if you go to Locomotion's website, click on the 'National Collection in Miniature' link, you'll find R3081 grinning cheekily at you from among the Bachmann and Rapido products.  As I mentioned before, until recently the NCIM concept was a bit vague - there was no distinct 'NCIM' branding on any of the recent Bachmann releases, prior to the C1 and the new NCIM logo is getting it's first airing only now.

I think it's fair to say that the 'NCIM' brand has it's own packaging - illustrated for the King in the OP to this thread. The prior "NRM exclusives" were packaged in Hornby or Bachmann boxes.

 

These of course were distinctly different from the "NRM special editions" which were packaged in proprietary manufacturing boxes, but not exclusively sold by the museum shops.

 

In the interim, we saw the branding "NRM, the Shildon Collection" for a special bundle. Was this the first appearance of the "Locomotion" logo on the packaging?

 

In short R3080 and R3081 have as much NCIM credential as any of the recent Bachmann stuff.

As much as the City of Truro and the Midland Compound certainly. I'd still draw a distinction based on the packaging. That is inherent in defining a "brand".

 

I don't know how the Ivatt C1 was packaged so I can't offer an opinion on that.

 

Changing branding (including packaging) is what happens when you hire marketing people. It's perfectly sensible for the museum to create a brand, but it does create confusion with existing products sold and still available for sale under different branding.

 

The "National Collection in Miniature" brand being a different 'brand' also makes sense for this sub-forum to exist separately from the Hornby, Bachmann and Rapido sub-forums.

Edited by Ozexpatriate
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Guest spet0114

 

Yes, the "National Collection in Miniature" brand is new and a bit different from what previously were "NRM exclusives" like the Bachmann City of Truro and Midland Compound and the Hornby Flying Scotsman.

 

No, it's not.  The NCIM tagline has been directly associated with the various exclusive models (both Bachmann, Hornby and Rapido) of national collection subjects for the past few years, certainly as far back as 2008. Most noticeably as a distinct section on the Locomotion website, but also in advertisement material and press releases - see for example...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77633-locomotion-nrm-l-y-tank/

or

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74279-nrm-exclusive-edition-deltic-prototype-in-service-livery-weathered-and-sound-versions/

 

...where the first line of each press release contains the NCIM reference.

 

The following is a quote from the NRM from 2008, referring to the popularity of the first edition of the prototype deltic....

 

"We feel that the support of Model Rail Forum has definitely been a factor in the popularity of the Deltic prototype. Each purchase supports the work of the NRM and we hope that if this project proves a success we will be adding more to the National Collection in miniature."

 

here's the link

 

http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?autocom=custom&page=NRM-Prototype-Deltic

 

In recent months, we've seen NCIM go from a somewhat vague marketing concept to a more definite identity - witness the prominent 'national collection in miniature' on the boxes of the C1 models and the new logo/packaging for the king. I've little doubt that you're correct in that a lot of this recent change is Simon's influence. However the basic point is that NCIM has been around and evolving for a long while and that period covers releases by Hornby, Bachmann and Rapido.

 

Cheers

Adrian

Edited by spet0114

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It is the same price as the Collector's Club limited edition of 20172.

So, as with the 'King' does this mean the 'museum premium' is going and in effect Locomotion is becoming 'just another retailer' but with a number of 'sort of exclusives' (one 'King' among four which ostensibly are all the same!) in addition to its own distinctly different range by either model (the 'Deltic' or C1) or livery (the 'Director' or L&Y tank ) on which a 'museum premium' would presumably still exist?  

 

I must admit to becoming rather confused by what appears to me to be a blurring of brand and what it means in terms of discernible contribution to the museum.

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I would hazard a guess that Hornby have possibly given them a lower trade price?

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I would hazard a guess that Hornby have possibly given them a lower trade price?

And Locomotion is a Hornby concession retail site - so could be either?

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And Locomotion is a Hornby concession retail site - so could be either?

Yes could also be that

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Guest spet0114

Isn't

 

...a blurring of brand...

 

almost always

 

....what happens when you hire marketing people.

 

??

:)

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I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the idea of a donation to a worthy cause has never really influenced any of my purchasing decisions. Don't get me wrong, I donate to various causes and happily pay the "suggested donation" fees when visiting government museums etc but if I buy a model (or any of the other things sold on the basis of a percentage of the profits going to xyz) it is because I want the model. I'm not objecting to the concept as if this is a good way of raising some money for worthy causes then all good but I have to admit that unless there was a real reason for purchasing a museum edition (particular livery or number, enhanced details etc) then I'd buy the cheaper regular release. Apologies if that seems very mean.

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I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the idea of a donation to a worthy cause has never really influenced any of my purchasing decisions. Don't get me wrong, I donate to various causes and happily pay the "suggested donation" fees when visiting government museums etc but if I buy a model (or any of the other things sold on the basis of a percentage of the profits going to xyz) it is because I want the model. I'm not objecting to the concept as if this is a good way of raising some money for worthy causes then all good but I have to admit that unless there was a real reason for purchasing a museum edition (particular livery or number, enhanced details etc) then I'd buy the cheaper regular release. Apologies if that seems very mean.

I think it has (has had?) a place in the era of lots of desirable 'I'd like to have but don't need' models in that if you have to be prudent with your purchases and you face an option in the 'like to have' category it might help to sway choice.  I think it might also have a role in the production of models which might not otherwise appear even in the age of niche market commissions.  For example I have certainly bought models not only because I want them and it fits my modelling scenario but also because it was an 'influenced' choice in the 'like to have' market.

 

But in both cases there is a limit and I think that limit has to be carefully handled or it will become blurred and cease to hold any sort of 'museum special' appeal (depending of course on why folk bought them in the first place).

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Guest spet0114

... there is a limit and I think that limit has to be carefully handled or it will become blurred and cease to hold any sort of 'museum special' appeal (depending of course on why folk bought them in the first place).

 

Agree entirely.

 

Heretofore, the NRM/Locomotion exclusives have commanded a certain cachet due in part to the quality of the models (which generally represented new or exclusive tooling at the forefront of the contemporary RTR art) and in part due to the implicit assumption that their higher-than-average cost contained a significant contribution to the conservation of the national collection. The fact that new ones appeared only occasionally was probably also a factor as the act of purchasing one remained a 'special occasion'.

 

It's too early to say for sure, but some of the noises emanating from Locomotion - talk of 'developing the brand' and so on - don't fill me with confidence that they've really understood what it is that is special about the brand they've inherited and how they're going to preserve it during and after this development. Time will tell....

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If you pay to go into a museum there may be very little impetus to buy something in the shop.  If entry is free, then the desire to give something may be to buy a memento of the occasion.

 

Take cathedrals as an example, some charge an entry, a few don't.  If, say, you visit Exeter Cathedral you must pay to tour the building and although there are contribution boxes I doubt if many people add a little extra.  On the other hand, Birmingham Cathedral is free (the staff there were affronted at the idea of anyone having to pay, even to photograph the interior's Burne-Jones stained glass windows) and I rather imagine the gift contributions are much more significant.

 

The choice for a museum to adopt voluntary giving is risky business, which may explain the concept of selling "exclusives".

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If you pay to go into a museum there may be very little impetus to buy something in the shop.  If entry is free, then the desire to give something may be to buy a memento of the occasion.

 

Take cathedrals as an example, some charge an entry, a few don't.  If, say, you visit Exeter Cathedral you must pay to tour the building and although there are contribution boxes I doubt if many people add a little extra.  On the other hand, Birmingham Cathedral is free (the staff there were affronted at the idea of anyone having to pay, even to photograph the interior's Burne-Jones stained glass windows) and I rather imagine the gift contributions are much more significant.

 

The choice for a museum to adopt voluntary giving is risky business, which may explain the concept of selling "exclusives".

I'm not so sure about the NRM (although overall perhaps the idea is basically similar) but in the case of Steam at Swindon you have to pay for admission (£8.50 for an adult) and it is my understanding that they saw exclusive models as a means of raising additional revenue while sticking very closely to a Western theme.  Thus they have a loyal market for their models based in some respects on sentimentality for Swindon works and, to probably a lesser extent, for the (G)WR but also seen by purchasers as a means of making an extra contribution to the museum's finances.  Obviously the basis of such things has to be as 'commercial' as the approach adopted by the NRM but of course an essential financial difference is that the NRM does not have admission charges.

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Isn't ... ...a blurring of brand... almost always ....what happens when you hire marketing people.

 

??

:)

Not if done properly. The opposite should be the intent.

 

I'm presuming your observation is a facetious/humourous one. If so, I would candidly say yes in that the attempt to streamline and clarify the message often complicates it, particularly at first.

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Not if done properly. The opposite should be the intent.

 

I'm presuming your observation is a facetious/humourous one. If so, I would candidly say yes in that the attempt to streamline and clarify the message often complicates it, particularly at first.

I understand that the  'National Collection in Miniature' brand is still intended to carry on as originally intended, but with a more visually distinctive packaging, and we are not looking at a changed approach on the part part of Locomotion and hopefully that will become clearer in coming weeks and with subsequent additions to their range. While they have a Hornby concession and obviously operate a wider model sales concern than just that and their own range of models I'm reassured that, although I hardly expected it anyway, they do not see themselves as being involved in model railway sales in the same way as, say, well known discount retailers.  They also continue to emphasise that the nett profit from sales is being wholly  applied to the benefit of the museum bringing tangible benefits to visitors - such as the models display at Locomotion, promotional displays, support for the workshop and stock movements for display which are otherwise becoming less affordable in the current financial climate.

 

I'm sure that Locomotion will be able to comment on any views expressed in this thread and elsewhere regarding their pricing policy but I understand their aim is to offer us a fair deal on their exclusively commissioned products by keeping the prices of them in line with the manufacturer's RRP.  I have no wish to see this thread descend into yet another 'price rise bashing' contest and while this comment might not come easily to some people I think we need to appreciate that it is yet another unavoidable reflection of the rise in development and manufacturing costs which is affecting the r-t-r part of our hobby.  And it needs to be set against the fact that many retailers are still able to offer some sort of discount from RRP and are thus pricing on a different basis from Locomotion  (and just to make it clear - I am referring to the exclusively commissioned models, not sales through Locomotion's Hornby concession etc).

 

The determination is there, I'm told, to continue the unique features of what has been developed in the past and I'm sure that before long we shall be seeing some clarification of how they continue to see their own 'National Collection in Miniature' brand and what it means to them as setting a recognised and continuing quality standard in models of items in the National Collection together with a willingness to tackle potentially difficult examples such as the Ivatt Atlantic, the APT-E, and the recently announced Stirling Single.   I believe too we are also likely to see a continuation of the previous policy pattern in terms of model releases which has been somewhat disrupted of late, as mentioned below.

 

This thread has in some respects developed in various ways due to the concurrent announcement of two new models from Locomotion and I now understand that they have become victims of circumstance in that their D8000 model was due to have been released some time back as part of their more usual past release pattern but was unfortunately delayed.  Delays are something which bedevils our hobby, and most of the manufacturers and commissioners, and I think might well continue to affect the whole model railway market in the UK as a result of  being only a part of the total market to which Chinese factories are supplying models.  We can but hope perhaps that should any such delays start to confuse or alter our views of the intentions of those who are developing a series of commissioned models things could be made clearer about the continuation of earlier policies.

 

 

Incidentally I am not posting on behalf of Locomotion but I have been made aware of various things in a discussion with them and I'm told they have no objection to my posting in this thread what I learnt in that discussion.  If I'm off the mark that's down to me and not them but I think and hope that I've given a fair indication of their views.

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