Early 70's BR(S) workbench

[Judge Dread]

The framework for your loader gives me an idea for the scrapped coach underframes train I have always lusted after. Kent loco hauled stock was scrapped at Newhaven and the frames sent for reuse as car carriers [loaders] etc.

 

Those Transits were imprinted on my brain on their way to Newhaven back in the early 70s - often with just a cab and chassis - less weight...

V nice pic here: https://flic.kr/p/k4hsUp

Not really less weight, you could buy a chassis and cab and have your own body built onto it. The same went for buses, gone are the days when a bus chassis would be driven through Hull to the docks for export sporting only the chassis and a wooden box affair to protect the driver. That person would be wearing a fleece lined "flying" jacket and goggles. Later they would be seen thumbing a lift back home carrying a set of "trade number plates".

Similarly chassis's would also be seen en route for coach building firms such as Plaxtons in Scarborough in our area. 

[Fat Controller]

Not really less weight, you could buy a chassis and cab and have your own body built onto it. The same went for buses, gone are the days when a bus chassis would be driven through Hull to the docks for export sporting only the chassis and a wooden box affair to protect the driver. That person would be wearing a fleece lined "flying" jacket and goggles. Later they would be seen thumbing a lift back home carrying a set of "trade number plates".

Similarly chassis's would also be seen en route for coach building firms such as Plaxtons in Scarborough in our area.

You can still get chassis/cab-only vehicles; it's what firms like ice-cream van and horse-box builders use as a base. Bigger vehicles are sometimes delivered like this to commercial body-builders; I often see orange, Dutch-registered, vehicle carriers with two or three 8-legger cab/chassis coming in via the ferries to Dover (they're out of gauge for the Tunnel, though the empty wagons go back via us.)

I wonder how bus/coach chassis are delivered to coach-builders these days? In my hitch-hiking days, I'd often see such chassis going up and down the motorways, with a driver looking like a WW1 aviator.

That coach underframe looks very impressive; I recollect them being left to rot slowly away when yards closed, as they'd long since been demoted to Internal User status, and so couldn't move on the main-line, even if they weren't completely siezed up.

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Fat Controller

[David Todd]

Like your work Andy, came across it via your VIX wagon wanted advert, on thE Community Index.

 

I have two, will send FOC.

[Andrew F]

First of all, a massive thank you to David Todd who has sent 5 VIX vans free of charge for the next ferry van projects which I hope to start pretty soon. Check out his Dover Priory thread in the layout topics If you've not seen it. These vans will return to Dover as Transfesa or Interfrigo or maybe SNCF vans.

 

Here's what's been going on with the ramp. I sourced some very fine wood from "Going Loco" and 'greyed' it up a bit and coated it in PVA so it stays together when cutting

 

 

The decking was cut out in 2mm planks for the half bottom bed on the old Carflat

 

 

The painted and weathering was done before fitting the ramp and top deck as it would be hard to get at once fitted

 

 

 The edges of the planks were trimmed

 

 

The top deck was cut from plastikard and reinforced with steel bar on the underside to prevent sagging. I wanted to use brass for rigidity in the supports but as I had some Evergreen 'L' section I just went for it

 

 

I wondered about the yellow paint; whether they'd just run out of it! Then I thought "Ah-ha" This thing side loads the bottom deck of the Cartics and the yellow is for visibilty.

 

Just waiting for the brass rod to fit the safety rails to the ramp and top deck. I used an e-bay firm called S-metals.

 

Then the ferry vans will be a challenge.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Andrew F

[P.C.M]

Hi Andrew,

Your latest wagon is looking great, looking forwards to seeing how you go with the VIX vans.

 

The Pullman looks great too it's a pity about the windows. I hope it's lasts a while before looking to bad.

 

Cheers Peter.

[m.levin]

Pullmans look smart, what you need for those Pullmans is a nice battle of Britain class loco, The Hornby BOB is such an easy loco to work with!!

[Andrew F]

That's exactly the reason I'm modelling the 'steam ban' era

 

 

I knocked the safety rails (0.55 brass rod) up on the ramps top deck pretty quickly by super-glueing the uprights into pre-drilled holes first then soldering the top rail to them. It would have been straight forward except for the heat from the solder melting the glue and the stanchions skewing......is nothing simple?

 

 

The next projects direct from Dover town yard; VIXens for vivisection.

 

 

 

[David Todd]

First of all, a massive thank you to David Todd who has sent 5 VIX vans free of charge for the next ferry van projects which I hope to start pretty soon. Check out his Dover Priory thread in the layout topics If you've not seen it. These vans will return to Dover as Transfesa or Interfrigo or maybe SNCF vans.

 

Here's what's been going on with the ramp. I sourced some very fine wood from "Going Loco" and 'greyed' it up a bit and coated it in PVA so it stays together when cutting

 

P1010891.JPG

 

The decking was cut out in 2mm planks for the half bottom bed on the old Carflat

 

P1010893.JPG

 

The painted and weathering was done before fitting the ramp and top deck as it would be hard to get at once fitted

 

P1010895.JPG

 

 The edges of the planks were trimmed

 

P1010897.JPG

 

The top deck was cut from plastikard and reinforced with steel bar on the underside to prevent sagging. I wanted to use brass for rigidity in the supports but as I had some Evergreen 'L' section I just went for it

 

P1010898.JPG

 

I wondered about the yellow paint; whether they'd just run out of it! Then I thought "Ah-ha" This thing side loads the bottom deck of the Cartics and the yellow is for visibilty.

 

Just waiting for the brass rod to fit the safety rails to the ramp and top deck. I used an e-bay firm called S-metals.

 

Then the ferry vans will be a challenge.

I have a photo,of a real one,side loader, in a siding in Dover, it's on the laptop, will post it up tmw.

[David Todd]

Andy F, here is a link to my old photo bucket site.

The picture shews, the ramps used,for side loading.

 

Photo, Andy Howard

http://s1212.photobucket.com/user/ferriesdover/media/photocarcarrier.jpg.html

[David Todd]

The car loading ramp, in Dover,from a distance.

 

 

 

Photo, courtesy of Lyddrail.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/89921297@N07/11232567443/

[Andrew F]

Thanks David, both great photo's. I'd need to do some drastic weathering to match those salty old dogs. Interesting to see the hinged ramps mounted to the deck in the first picture; the one I modelled didn't have this. I suppose some of the bays had ramps rather than the loader itself. If the loader was a static then the hinged ramps would be permanently on the platform. I can imagine the nasty sound of those being thrown down one after the other.

[Andrew F]

I've made a start of the VIXens. There will be 4 VIX type (not sure what the foreign types are called). 2 Interfrigo, both differing foreign types and 6 blue planked Transfesa.

 

Thanks to Pete Harvey, I now have some good detailed diagrams and images of the VIX including the underframe detail.

 

The first hurdle is to see if they will run/couple ok as a rigid 2-axle chassis.

 

The bogie mounting points were skimmed off

 

 

Likewise the mounting clips are cut off the bogies

 

 

Hopefully I can get rid of all that excess plastic and coupling arm. At this time only that round top post needs to come off the back of the bogie.

 

I've added square plates top and bottom of the bogie mounting areas. The plastic on the chassis (but not the bogie) reacts well to Mekpak so anything is possible really, especially cutting and shutting for the Transfesas.

 

 

The mounting points can be drilled out and the bogie screwed in solid or not........need more washers like this:

 

 

The fixed VIX is on the left. You can see the axle assembly is closer to the body but strangely there seems to be little buffer and height difference between the unmodified one on the right.

 

 

There's still 1mm to come down I reckon:

 

 

I think 12mm Romfords would sort the height discrepancy. They're hard to find these days though.

I hope to get away with flexible Bachmann 'dovetail' couplings fixed to the wagon rather than the axle assembly. The wheelbase and overhang is more than a BR or SR CCT.

 

 

 

 

[David Todd]

Andy, when you said,"hard to find",did you mean, second hand ?

I have found, a number of model railway suppliers, that sell,"new". But this will increase the budget .

Hook and loop couplings are so dated, now a days .

Would your Bachmann dove tails, work,with under rail magnets ?

I am presuming, the Vixens, are a fixed rake and not,for loose shunting.

[P.C.M]

Hi Andrew,

The 12mm wheels should sort out the height, as the Hornby wheels are about 13mm from memory so it should drop it 1/2 a mm, plonk then on some track as the flange depth might make a difference too.

 

Cheers Peter.

[Fat Controller]

The equivalent vehicles from Continental administrations are coded ILX or ILB. The shorter ones are IMX (the Germans and Yugoslavs had some of these) Transfesa vans are ITX/B, both planked and steel sliding door types. Be aware that the Transfesa wagons are considerably shorter than the others (I have a drawing somewhere, if that would be of use). My recollection is that Transfesa wagons have a 7 metre wheelbase, VIX and ILBs are 8m, whilst the 4-wheel Cargovans are 9m.

[m.levin]

Hi Andy

 

Been looking for those Etched brass connecting rods for BOB, but no joy.

Maybe someone on here maybe able to help and then I will get some ordered, for when I come over next for our kiss and cuddle session.

[Andrew F]

Andy, when you said,"hard to find",did you mean, second hand ?

I have found, a number of model railway suppliers, that sell,"new". But this will increase the budget .

Hook and loop couplings are so dated, now a days .

Would your Bachmann dove tails, work,with under rail magnets ?

I am presuming, the Vixens, are a fixed rake and not,for loose shunting.

 

I thought Markits had bought Romford David, and they were hard to get hold of and a lot more pricey than Romford. If you know of any suppliers I'd be interested.

 

I've not given much thought to automated or magnetic couplings. Maybe Kaydees would be good actually but I like the goalpost style couplings on my loco's with the bufferbeam details. I'm not thinking of a fixed rake as I may want to split 12 vehicles into 2 rakes and load onto a ferry as storage sidings......just thoughts at the mo.

 

 

Hi Andrew,

The 12mm wheels should sort out the height, as the Hornby wheels are about 13mm from memory so it should drop it 1/2 a mm, plonk then on some track as the flange depth might make a difference too.

 

Cheers Peter.

 

Definitely the pizza-cutters have something to do with it....they'll have to go. Romfords are smaller diametre than rtr wheels.

 

I was surprised when I tested the 2 fixed chassis. There was wheel binding and derailment through a Peco medium crossover and on Peco long curved points...less so with Bachmann wheels fitted. Still, it's not good enough and I'll have to resort to pivoting axles and probably keep the long coupling arms. This will be for the 6 VIX length vehicles; the Transfesa's will be short enough to have fixed axles.

 

 

Hi Andy

 

Been looking for those Etched brass connecting rods for BOB, but no joy.

Maybe someone on here maybe able to help and then I will get some ordered, for when I come over next for our kiss and cuddle session.

 

Just for you Martin. You dropped it, you fix it:

[m.levin]

Haha 

 

depresses me seeing how much work is left to do on the Battle of Bull*cks!!

[Andrew F]

Thanks to Fat controller for FS diagram.

 

There's been a change of plan; the first 6 vans will be wooden bodied Transfesa due to having acquired another VIX from e-bay. The 6 longer vehicles will be started after these are painted.

 

Not sure what happened to this sorry old chap; no, it doesn't have metal buffers.

 

 

The chassis' details were chopped off and 5 feet taken from the middles. The same with the boxes; in fact the roof ribs are really good guide lines for cutting.

 

 

All the plastic was cut out between to make an 'I' beam.....roughly

 

 

Then a plastic strip added.

 

 

Plastikard was cut and the sliding door area filled. Also the area around where the sliding vents will go was cut out of the shells.

Poor beggers didn't stand a chance!

 

 

The front one is 35 feet long with a platform for a guards box (short body/longer chassis)

Here the ends have been skimmed ready for planking

 

 

Tansfesa have different vents from VIX  and usual FS being pyramidic,...rather than just a cross on a plate.

I've filled some of the ones cut out of a VIX and will cast them.......94 in total needed! ...and I hate casting.

 

 

After a couple of days working on these I reckon it would have been easier to scratchbuild.

They are rough as owt at the moment but once the planking and microstrip starts going on they'll be ok.

[number6]

After a couple of days working on these I reckon it would have been easier to scratchbuild.

They are rough as owt at the moment but once the planking and microstrip starts going on they'll be ok.

 

Nah. Great stuff. And just think how 'collectable' you've now made the remaining quarter million VIXs out there.

[m.levin]

https://flic.kr/p/AGnz41

[m.levin]

I spent a good evening at Andy's and we worked on his Transefa Vans.

The pictures show progression of vans and increased alcohol consumption. Amazing how straight lines look when a little consumed.

 

[m.levin]

I have been working on the Battle of Britain, as seen in earlier images in bits.

We believed this project would be a nice and simple project, Simple is an

We knew what out come we wanted and what we needed to get to this. 

 

This BOB started of as the Hornby Fighter Pilot and after some researching we found a BOB that was similar to the fighter Pilot in BR Green, as we found that they had a number of different tenders and Cab sides and at the time we wanted to keep it simple. So this lead us to 229 Squadron so off we went and made a start on stripping it down.

all went reasonably well until Decals were added and first problem!!

 

We noticed that the Loco body sits higher then the Tender and the lining didn't line up well, which looked wrong trying to get them to line up by off setting the lining.

 

 

So work was done to lower the loco body, which opened a massive can or worms, we learnt very quick that Hornby had a reason for producing the body slightly higher.

 

 

So lowering looked great and it ran like a bag of spanners and derailed for the hell of it, all the issues down to lowering and clearances of pony truck and front boogie.

 

We then released BOBs when worn causes the connecting Rod to hit against the Wheel nuts, bending the conn rod and locking up wheels. We had play in every moving part so work was required to tighten up the play. Sounds easy!! umm no when you start to handle part and move parts, with lowing the body, bits that you don't want to break breaks and bits you expect to break don't. 

We could write a book with the issues this Loco has presented to us, so not going to put every last one on here, but those that had got both of us scratching our slight less haired heads!!

 

This Project has become one of the biggest we have ever dealt with and left hanging on the edge of the work bench, hoping that one of us you knock it off and in to the bin!!

 

But I'm pleased to say that it seems to be getting close to the end and I have managed to get it to run around a 2nd Rad curve.

 

 

[Fat Controller]

Ventilators on Ferry Vans- I wonder if someone might be interested in doing some etched ones? The half-a-dozen vans I've done have variously relief built up with circular plastic strip, or are made by folding and scribing .010" sheet.

[Andrew F]

  A big thanks to Mart Levin for helping to get a serious start on the Onion vans.

 

Brian, I came up with the same idea as you for the vents; scribing the back of a rectangle and folding the pyramid  and running rounded micro strip around the edge.

 

So the casting idea is ditched. I did 94 vents in about 4 hours solid. They not perfect but then the vans in reality were a bit crispy and naff.

 

 

So, the basic shell of one of them before tidying and detailing:

 

 

I've been getting a couple of bits of stock together to visit Dave Todd and the Dover Priory layout next week. 

These have not seen a layout yet so Dover should be pretty fitting.

 

Still some light bleed on Caroline:

 

 

The 71 has been fitted with a Bachmann 3 function decoder and runs smoothly on it's Heljan chassis but the gears are noisy.

The shell is fouling the bogie frame at one end and a shell mounting lug has come adrift.

 

 

Maiden voyage ahoy!