Early 70's BR(S) workbench

[Andrew F]

Hello Brian. The London-Paris freightliner was the service I had in mind though loosely based on this, using the (no, I won't use the word 'iconic' as I'm sick of it.) red and grey Freightliner boxes of the late 60's. My layout plans will/would not be that prototypical......I would love some of those huge container cranes......I won't pay 400 sheets for a crackered Heljan beastie though.

   The train I'm working on at the moment is in (sparodic) use on my Scottish layout so would be simply transfered to the new layout. I've not seen the Dover thread you refer to but have noticed some rather tasty Dover layouts in the making in the 'layout topics' section. I'll certainly have a look as I do need information and inspiration; I have not a single book on the Southern region. I have noted the crude car loading onto Cartic4 sets at Dover....very interesting and the ferry traffic you mention is all new to me and again something I have to look into.

    I'm glad you like the 33's. I marked the internal frame positions on the outside of the body shells with a marker pen and scratched the paint and some of the plastic away between these lines with a curved scalpel blade before flatting the surfaces with grades of finishing paper. I did a rather coarse write up of this on a Lima 27 a few years ago but the finish was a bit heavy. It was in the 'Paint, transfers and weathering section. Sure enough, some of the big Sulzers were as battered as crisp packets; Peaks had the ribs showing especially noticable in preservation with a high gloss finish.

 

Cheers

Andy

[Andrew F]

I've bashed 15 vehicles for the FFA/FGA container flats, mainly from Tri-ang models and a few of the later Hornby types. All have been brought down from the loft for a bank holiday modelling session so it's back to school, dear old bloody old school (in Ken Russell silly high voice).

 Was it 'S' kits that did a detail kit with instructions to modify? How impossible would it be to find enough to do a 15 bogie rake? There are some still knocking about but in the end I thought it easier to just scratch build the parts.

 

The standard ride height and all the toy like features:

 

Removing the bogie rivet with a screwdriver:

 

Now some are easy to remove and some the devil; I've taken the drill to some!

 

With the bogie removed it's time to file some of the plastic away from the mounting. I found it takes more than 2mm to to make the bogie sit right.

 

Obviously the filing must be totally square. In this photo all the unnecessary plastic has been cut away with Xurons:

 

At the moment I have no 10mm Romford disc wheels so I've just ground the big flanges off the nylon wheels....yuk!

Here's the bogie re-mounted with a self-tapper. I've used Bachmann DMU couplers for reliable operation on the FFA inners. The FGA has standard Bachmann mini's at the buffer ends. Ridemaster bogies are weighted with lead to help gravity.

 

Here's a comparison of the rtr against my 'opened up' chassis including filled area above the bogie mounts. The vehicles are modelled with 'splash guards' on to save more work....I think they kept them on in the early days.

 

Of course, the chassis is still poor and solid in the horizontal department.......they will always be a poor compromise.

 

Here's the inner end of the FFA/FGA :

 

...and the buffer end of the FGA where it couples to a loco or another 5-bogie set:

 

I'm working on the loads at the moment. They are based on 10', 20', 30' Freightliner boxes and opens. Certainly more Anglo-Scottish than London-Paris I'd say at the moment.

 The beam is scratchbuilt with old Jackson Oleos fitted and Bachmann air pipes.

 

Yet another ton of work followed by an announcement of rtr. Still, All good fun.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew F]

 This shows some of the under-floor detail; I guess it's the air-braking system. Paul Bartlett's site came in handy once more.

 

 

I've used Evergreen tube and strip. The solid underside needs all the help it can get. Again, Evergeeen strip was used to form crude representations of twist locks 'L' angle and 'H' girder this time.

Colin Craig brake hand wheels and axles have been slotted into pre-drilled holes in the chassis. I've only made a few orders with Colin but I can't recommend him enough. His FFA/FGA really look the business.......maybe some day.....

Here's my Tri-ang effort:

 

 

Re-positioning the containers is another step away from the toy. The two outer containers are moved in board. This means trimming off the mounting 'teets'. I'm not desperate to have all the containers removable but some variation in load will still be possible.

I added extra markings to my containers with permanent pens. Unfortunately when I've matt varnished them they've 'blurred out'

 

Here's the Tr-ang 'open' container in it's original form with a bit of weathering. The transfers were done on the computer and printed onto transfer paper.

 

 

I thought at first these containers were a piece of fiction; easy to think when you look at the back catalogue of Tr-ang rolling stock.

 

I've chopped some of these up and found/built suitable loads for them this weekend so that's next. I can barely 'contain' myself.

.

 

 

[P.C.M]

What a great railway that is Peter. I get down every year for the diesel gala and beer festival and love that part of Dorset.

 

It's also possible I've seen the SRN4's but don't remember. Funny how seeing something that bonkers may not etch itself in the mind and they've not been out of commission that long. The same for me with Folkestone Harbour. I was there as a teenager but have no memory of the harbour area. I remember the Weymouth boat trains very well but then we went every year and I used to walk down to the quay with the loco.

 

Is the Southampton boat train branch officially closed or mothballed? There's another smaller Airfix Hovercraft kit but in 4mm scale; I wonder if this is a kit of the craft that you remember?

 

I watched the Michael Caine film 'Black Windmill' and that featured the SRN4 in it's largest variation and in 'Hoverlloyd' livery. I prefer them in original condition wearing a variation of BR livery. This is my Airfix one:

 

007_zpsanotpy8v.JPG

 

I've not really thought about what kind of a job it would be to scratchbuild a 4mm version.

 

Well next is the Tr-ang/Hornby Railroad FFA/FGA container train that I've been working on and off with for some time.

Hi Andy,

Yeah love Swanage I made it over for the Gale last year so had some good haulage and a few beers.

 

Having seen your model I am pretty sure I haven't seen one, as you say it would be hard to forget it's a bit of a beast.

 

I remember weymouth quay quite well and watched the 33's squeezing past the parked cars. As for Southampton Docks I am pretty sure the eastern docks can still be used. Western docks is in use daily by DBS, mainly cars for export. I think a few years back DRS ran a boat train into the Western docks too.

 

Nice work on the FFA/FGAs.

 

Cheers Peter.

[Fat Controller]

I've bashed 15 vehicles for the FFA/FGA container flats, mainly from Tri-ang models and a few of the later Hornby types. All have been brought down from the loft for a bank holiday modelling session so it's back to school, dear old bloody old school (in Ken Russell silly high voice).

 Was it 'S' kits that did a detail kit with instructions to modify? How impossible would it be to find enough to do a 15 bogie rake? There are some still knocking about but in the end I thought it easier to just scratch build the parts.

 

The standard ride height and all the toy like features:

031_zpsqhugztzi.JPG

 

Removing the bogie rivet with a screwdriver:

040_zpsmllwdeka.JPG

 

Now some are easy to remove and some the devil; I've taken the drill to some!

 

With the bogie removed it's time to file some of the plastic away from the mounting. I found it takes more than 2mm to to make the bogie sit right.

042_zpsyskbulqu.JPG

 

Obviously the filing must be totally square. In this photo all the unnecessary plastic has been cut away with Xurons:

030_zpsqz8a5elp.JPG

 

At the moment I have no 10mm Romford disc wheels so I've just ground the big flanges off the nylon wheels....yuk!

Here's the bogie re-mounted with a self-tapper. I've used Bachmann DMU couplers for reliable operation on the FFA inners. The FGA has standard Bachmann mini's at the buffer ends. Ridemaster bogies are weighted with lead to help gravity.

043_zpscfrwwf8p.JPG

 

Here's a comparison of the rtr against my 'opened up' chassis including filled area above the bogie mounts. The vehicles are modelled with 'splash guards' on to save more work....I think they kept them on in the early days.

039_zpsz52pummt.JPG

 

Of course, the chassis is still poor and solid in the horizontal department.......they will always be a poor compromise.

 

Here's the inner end of the FFA/FGA :

044_zpsaalb1jch.JPG

 

...and the buffer end of the FGA where it couples to a loco or another 5-bogie set:

045_zpsnicmc2pr.JPG

 

I'm working on the loads at the moment. They are based on 10', 20', 30' Freightliner boxes and opens. Certainly more Anglo-Scottish than London-Paris I'd say at the moment.

 The beam is scratchbuilt with old Jackson Oleos fitted and Bachmann air pipes.

 

Yet another ton of work followed by an announcement of rtr. Still, All good fun.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

It was originally Mendip Models that did the 'upgrade' kit, then taken over by S Kits- they're not difficult to use. Railtec have recently issued packs of numbers for renumbering the early boxes:- http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1193and http://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1231

The open containers were often to be seen loaded with beer kegs from Newcastle to destinations around the country; other traffic conveyed in them included reeled paper, aluminium slabs and steel coils. Block trains of them ran in the 'Fletliner' serving London Brick depots in Manchester, Liverpool and London.

There were occasional 'Freightliner' trains to destinations apart from Dover and Southampton on the SR; I've seen a photo of one at Newhaven, published in one of the 'Freight Only' series of books. It was possibly a MoD service, as the boxes were plain and uniform.

Eastern Docks still sees boat trains in conjunction with cruises, I believe, and possibly also some car traffic. Western Docks also sees containerised gypsum (GBRf), ordinary containers (for DBS, who don't use the Freightliner depots) and sometimes ship loads of railway ballast.

[5Bel]

Hi Andrew,

 

Your container flats look excellent. I have an S kits conversion kit and the wagons in my to do list. I have always wanted a rake of container flats as I used to see them regularly as a youth, mainly on the Western region. Looking forward to seeing more progress.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[Andrew F]

Thanks chaps. I've used Lettraset for the lettering on my 30ft containers and the larger arrows form HMRS/PC sheet15. The Railtec transfers would have come in useful/may still come in useful.

  This is what the Lettraset looks like on my cut and shut containers......a bit on the large side. I've done four of these.

 

 

This is the 10 footer of which I've put two together:

 

 

I've left the poxy doors 'as is'.

What I've done with the open containers is cut out the sides and leave the vertical stanchions in position and tidy them up a little. Two have been chopped and spliced to create a 30 foot open and one 20 foot has had the concrete side pieces glued back in tongue and groove style. I've modelled them a bit wonky as there is a shot on the P.Bartlett site in this fashion. These things looked awful to work on in real life but just fun in model form as the good old plastic sticks well with Mekpak.

 

 

 

This one is glued down now and does not bow in the middle. Did the originals have parquet floors?

 

 

 

[Fat Controller]

I think it may have been chequer-plate, but the Hornby interpretation does look more like parquet.

[Andrew F]

Was it these models that Tri-ang claimed they'd produced before the prototype was in service?

 

the loads for the open containers were made from scrap; the bits in the really really scrap pile.

I used polystyrene bits with foil on top to make the open container cargo:

 

 

looks like a discarded Kitkat

 

I primed it with red oxide and shot it over with Revell SM red.....It's a tarp but I think  they changed them from waterproof cloth to plastic around the sixties....

 

 

A bit of airbrushing makes it a bit better. The straps are just wire from multistrand cable. Goodness me it looks awful doesn't it?

 

 

In it's box I think it looks better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[blueeighties]

Excellent work fella!

[Hedfordtfc]

A diversion just for a minute re hovercraft.

 

I was talking to a colleague who is off to the Isle of Wight for a holiday and mentioned I went over from Southsea to Ryde on a hovercraft back in the early 1980s. He had more recently, but when I googled the type I went in with the "opening cab windscreen" I seems I went on a Hovertravel SRN6. The interior of these was quite similar to a single deck bus but with the rubber skirts around and the Rolls Royce turbine behind the cabin. Presume all the SRN6s were withdrawn when the newer more conventional craft were acquired.  .

[Andrew F]

Is this the craft that Matchbox made? Remember it with the green metal top and the plastic buff skirt?

 

Before I bash some more Pullmans I thought I'd show what I've done with my Tri-ang Cartics.

 

Here's the original 666 beast

 

 

I've built 3 sets of Cartic4; obviously a 12 vehicle rake. hard to photograph.

 

 

 

 

The middle atriculated vehicles were scratchbuilt to match the modified Tri-ang/Hornby ones. I'll try and show some comparisons.

 

 

I've lowered all the ride heights and the bogies (salvaged from the freightliner flats) have been altered with plasticard and metal bar. The artics now pivot inboard on the body rather than external loops. The ladders are signal ones...I just can't remember the company..very nice and good price.

 

 

The buffer ends started like this:

 

 

I kept the buffers and headstocks and added brassmaster hooks and buffer shrouds plus Bachmann air pipes.

 

 

I admit I was quite impressed with the Tri-ang buffers.

So the bodies of the old things were chopped to hell. The top deck should be the same vertical thickness as the bottom. I used Xurons ro cut them down and a lot of filing.

Here's the modified Tri-ang artic ridemaster with Romford 10mm wheels and bearings:

 

 

here's some pictures of the modified Tr-angs. Brake wheels are from Colin Craig...superb!. The transfers are from Cambridge...really nice but delicate. the air cylinders were scratch-built

 

 

 

The stanchions are just 0.4mm brass wire. Until I know the exact role of this rake I'll leave the horizontal chains...maybe permanently!

 

Here's the decks of an inner vehicle. Slater plasticard to replicate the wheel treads and micro strip plus paper!!...for the details....it all gets varnished and works well.

 

 

Ok this should work this time!

 

 

[Andrew F]

Here's the next project, a couple of days in:

 

 

it's going to be "Isle of Thanet". I got the research on-line; an American  photographer who took good pictures whilst it was touring the US with the Flying Scotsman.

It has six windows down the side which are differently spaced from the old and new 'K's so out with the dremel.

 

 

 

Plastikard was let in so the window frames could go back in as an interference fit........yeah right.

 

 

 

The donor was an old matchboard so the sides were filled and the raised roof skimmed off. This donor was a proper donor so the 247 ventilators were added. Also guard doors and periscope were scratchbuilt and the '51 square lav windows fettled in.

 

 

[Andrew F]

  Here's the progress of "Isle of Thanet". After the primer I've given the shell a coat of semi-gloss brown. When flatting off this coat it's easy to differentiate between high and low points which is essential as there's a load of 'plop' and 'plaggy' in the repair. The low points stay glossy and visible. Now it's nicely keyed for the top coat/s

 

 

The airbrush is perfect for this 'high build' work as you can concentrate paint into the key areas around the repairs.

 

After the top coat which is matched as best as possible with the Hornby colour it's time to put the cream panels in. You're supposed to start with the lighter colours but I don't think that's necessary. This job is easier starting with the dark for masking purposes.

 

This is another benefit of an airbrush; tickling in areas without creating a nasty paint step along the masking lines. I've used matt white as an undercoat for the panels. This method is ideal for adding a yellow warning panel to a green diesel etc.

 

 

Again, I've mixed paint to try and match the Hornby livery. It's looks Ok in this picture but in reality the Hornby finish looks muddy and dead. The 'wag' around the square lav window is on the inside and will be dealt with later....honest.

 

 

The interior was razor sawed in to pieces and the seats and tables will be re-fitted in-line with the new window arrangement.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2015 by Andrew F

[Southernboy]

Exemplary Andy. That is really looking the business.

 

I somehow suspect you enjoyed the razor-sawing bit  ...  

[47164]

Andy , FGAs are really nice , are the raised coupling ends made from plasticard with the full length of the wagon retained ? I am in the process of making up a rake and playing around with card templates to get the look right for the end of each rake.

[Andrew F]

Yes, I used plastikard to make the bufferbeams and just stuck them to the standard length chassis'. A nice straight forward project which you'll enjoy; good luck

 

Mark. Yes that was fun chopping that interior up. It warped like hell a few days later though, when it went back together...no fun.

 

The coach is now finished. I used 'Woodhead transfers'; I don't know how old they were but they went on fine. There's a massive problem with the coach though; the glazing is self destructing very slowly which will probably turn to coach to scrap. The glazing was difficult to remove from coach before modifying and it must have been stressed. A stress which manifests itself many days/weeks later like mazak rot. I wish I hadn't Mek'd the glazing in so well as I don't think it can be removed now without wrecking the coach. I'll just have to wait

 

 

You can see the white appearing around the frames

 

 

This is the worst window.

 

 

This is not the first time windows have self destructed on me and it is most annoying because it happens later and the model just gets ropier and ropier.

  I think I'll stick to freight stock.

 

Here's the next project and it's a car ramp for the loading of Cartic4's. Based on photo's from the P.Bartlett site it started life a GWR suburban B coach then evolved into a Carflat before ending it's life an a ramp. i'll stick a link in to the proto later.

 

 

Chopping the whole floor out was a bit premature as I needed the rigidity for more disc cutting.

 

[Colin parks]

Hi Andrew,

 

It's shame about the windows on the Pullman car it looks so good otherwise. A similar thing happened to the glazing on my Bachmann 4 CEP some years ago after it had been given a wash of dilute paint to weather it. Cracks appeared on all four vehicles and all I could think of was that the weathering process had stressed the plastic of the glazing in some way  - not that it had been removed like I your case though. 

 

Could it be that the MEK you used to fix the widow panes had something to do with it?  Perhaps the panes were so well fixed that it didn't allow for differential expansion of the plastic body shell and glazing material?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Southernboy]

Sorry to hear about the windows Andy.

 

Could you use R/C Modellers Glue - a product you introduced me to some years ago which I'm still using for many model applications - and was planning to use for fixing the glazing in my Subs.

 

Either way, dont give up on those Pullmans, they look magnificent and it would be a shame to give up on them so easily

Edited October 6, 2015 by Southernboy

[Bustered]

It does look like the condensation you used to see on those cold winter mornings in the corners of windows! A beautiful coach none the less.

 

Best wishes

 

Nige

[blueeighties]

Excellent work. Shame about the windows. I would say it's the Mek Pack causing that. Some stock I have to remove windows from is insanely glued in...damage generally results upon attempted removal. However, I have never known the glass to craze or fog by itself, it's always caused by glue.

[bescotbeast]

Was it these models that Tri-ang claimed they'd produced before the prototype was in service?

 

the loads for the open containers were made from scrap; the bits in the really really scrap pile.

I used polystyrene bits with foil on top to make the open container cargo:

 

017_zpsgxu10nfw.JPG

 

looks like a discarded Kitkat

 

I primed it with red oxide and shot it over with Revell SM red.....It's a tarp but I think  they changed them from waterproof cloth to plastic around the sixties....

 

b30d789d-416c-47cb-b5c5-c9c91e48e01e_zpsqfzgqjb7.JPG

 

A bit of airbrushing makes it a bit better. The straps are just wire from multistrand cable. Goodness me it looks awful doesn't it?

 

032_zpshmilwodb.JPG

 

In it's box I think it looks better.

 

 

035_zpswcr2wcxp.JPG

Can I just say what a marvellous job you've done on creating those sheeted loads. I've wanted to recreate this for my own layout but was stuck on how to accomplish it, now you've given me ideas.

 

Simon

[number6]

Fabulous stuff. Your units and Cromptons are so characterful and I completely agree with you about the gloss finishes and wobbly sides. Don't see enough of that modelled.

 

So when are you going to do a rake of CARs loaded with Ford Transits on their way to export? I don't think there are many other trainloads that say the 70s more than one of those. You'd be the master of it...

[Andrew F]

Thanks for the contributions gents; I agree with all you say. Mekpak was a bad choice for fixing the glazing but since I'd used that on the other Pullmans succesfully I used it on this.

The 'Canopy' glue Mark suggests is the one to go for as it dries clear and rubbery thus allowing for any flex or expansion/contraction in the shell which I guess was still curing from it's mods. This glue is also water soluble so you can thin it and allow capillary action to run round.

Thinking about what Colin said regarding this occurance of 'stress', I wondered why this had happened to this coach and not the other ones and it's possible that with cropping the glazing individually and close rather than fitting the glazing as a whole strip has introduced this.There's also the fact that the inside of the panes were worked with finishing paper and T-cut to remove the Hornby curtains before buffing back to a shine so heat may not have helped.

 I know exactly what you mean Lee, about the glue that's been used on rtr loco's over the past few years. The Bachmann 37 windows used to push out but I've had loco's where the glue has melted the pane to the frames and created these white outlines that spoil a brand new loco; 049 and 254 spring to mind as you'll probably know and the glazing has not even been pushed home properly before setting in the factory.

 

Number 6. I'd thought about Ford cars but not Transits; nice idea. I wonder how much a 12 vehicle double decker train would weigh full and if a Bachmann 47 would manage to pull it. I'd considered plastic cars to keep the weight down but they look poor. The old Mimic cars are not too bad but have erm 'collector value'. I do like the idea of vans, cheers.

 

The loading ramp build is turning out well so far

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/carramp

 

 

 

 

 

[number6]

The framework for your loader gives me an idea for the scrapped coach underframes train I have always lusted after. Kent loco hauled stock was scrapped at Newhaven and the frames sent for reuse as car carriers [loaders] etc.

 

Those Transits were imprinted on my brain on their way to Newhaven back in the early 70s - often with just a cab and chassis - less weight...

V nice pic here: https://flic.kr/p/k4hsUp